Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Story is Bad (spoilers)

1. Where did Gortash get so much money? He's a cobbler's son who turned into a millionaire without doing any business.

2. Ok, Gortash is a Thief? He "found" (lol) the Grand Design (lol # 2 - why is it even there) book, while robbing (lol # 3 if it was so easy to rob, it would've been done ages ago. Or Gortash is a Master Thief - where is his exp. coming from then?) House of Wonders with Durge. Oh btw, Gortash escaped House of Hope... as a kid... just like that. And he has MS Teams as well, to give you a video call... while you're on a submarine...

3. Crown of Karsus, locked away by Mephistopheles SPECIFICALLY for it to be safe from everyone else, was also "stolen" by him. How did he know it's there? How did he get there? Why MEPHISTOPHELES does not care? How did our badass trio remove the gems from the crown? Also why did they share the gems between themselves, while each one has extreme distrust towards each other? Why didn't any of these power-hungry psychos just put the Crown on their own head?

4. Gortash knows you have a netherstone and an artifact. He is a Mastermind, a Genius, constantly fed insights by Bane. But he just tells you his whole plan (in the throne room for everybody to hear) and let's you go because... you pinky promised him? Lol.

5. You think that's absurd - check this out: our badass trio put the crown on an Elder Brain. Put. The. Crown. On. An. ELDER. BRAIN. OK let's assume the Elder Brain is ultra insightful (and it is) and it "allowed" them to do it in order to get control of the crown and spread the Grand Design - but there was no guarantee that the Brain could overpower the Crown. Too risky. Never would have happened. PLUS - whatever the Elder Brain is doing, it could've done without the Crown. How did the find the brain, how did they approach it unharmed?

5. "Emperor" is Balduran. LOL. He "feigned" allegiance to the Brain, then also casually "broke free" from it's domination. Why? How? If it was so easy, why we don't have a whole faction of Illithids outside of Elder Brain control? I didn't even understand why he is in the prison? To protecc Orpheus? Or suck off his mental power?

7. Why Myrkul chose Ketheric, a total failure, as his Chosen? He wasn't devoted to him, he got owned, he's just a big sad and impotent, which is proven by Tav once again. Ketheric and his daughter were alive 100 years ago... how are they alive now? Ok, they were "resurrected" (which is impossible after so much time.. but w/e), but why are they so normal? Instead of being skeletons?

8. Orin - Ace Killer, sneaks into your camp and "kidnaps" a companion. Why? Why not slit Tav throat and take everything (those ppl in the camp sleep like they're dead - Durge slaughters Alfira and nobody wakes up). Then you just Mak'Gora her 1v1, while the whole psycho murderer guild is watching.

9. Minor one, but still retarded - Balthazar does not know how to find Nightsong, while he is the one who imprisoned her... heheh, I rest my case.

The answer is simple. Its OH LOOK BEAR SEX!!!!!!!
*runs away*


Yeah, its bad.

I will quote everyone's favorite game dev:

"IT JUST WORKS"

- Todd Howard

But in all seriousness, good points and ones I picked up as well as I played, and so far I have no answers to that aside from - I guess everyone around Gortash was an incompetent fool?

I like the game, I really do, but you do make some good points.
I would add, that you get introduced to a very friendly mindflayer early in the game, Omeluum, but somehow it is not possible to ask him, to be the mandatory mindflayer for navigating the netherstones against the elder brain, if he is alive at the end? Despite him showing his willingness to sacrifice his own life to help you in the underwater prison to save the grand duke.

Somehow I wish, there would be more talk about the plot points that could be better, than five threads about Astarions romance scene being broken ( not hating here just an example).

I especially don't get, what the point is with Ketheric and Orin. He might have been a very capable general and probably still is, but he is also someone, who changes allegiance willynilly. Orin is an uncontrollable brat, totally unreliable, who turns against her own partner in crime. I do think it not out of character for her to toy with you rather than kill you, since that seems to be her thing according to a letter, you find ( from Durge, complaining, that she doesn't do enough killing for father dearest).
About Balthazar: I never had that dialogue,where he didn't know, where the Nightsong is, he said to me, that he can't be bothered and we should go and do that.

I have another one though: we already enter the Shadowfell for the Nightsong quest, why can't we do it to save Taniel? It should be possible to do that without Halsin, Jaheira was there back in the days and should have the same knowledge as Halsin, but somehow he is the only one, who can do it.

Because Halsin really really wanted to do it himself.

Hah good one, it shows the type of audience BG3 attracted. Majority of BG3 discussions online is about romance, kisses, sex etc. These ppl do not care that Story absolutely falls apart once you begin questioning wtf is going on, I just choose to ignore it and make up my own stuff.

It also doesn’t help immersion that everyone in Act 2 and Act 3 are either gay or lesbian, absolute joke. Straight couples, which are a minority here, are all either dead or broken apart, or that pathetic dwarf couple, where retarded husband beats the wife? Like, why is it in a fantasy RPG? How does it add to my Baldur’s Gate 3 fantasy experience?

It is good that I’m able to just shut those things completely out of my head, and I am just enjoying the gameplay. People who want a great story and fantasy world immersion are very disappointed with BG3.

Tbh, it is the same in every game - when there is romance, you attract a certain crowd. I'm not that interested in romance outside of what they can add to the story, and I still like those games.
I don't think, it only attracts those crowds, but people tend to attach themselves to certain characters, but tbh, that was no different with the old BG games. I still remember the horny Viconia threads in the old BG 1&2 forums, I was active.
But I guess, sex sells - I mean, I like modding my games - and to probably no ones surprise, nude mods are always the first ones, that come out, so I'm not surprised, that it is so hyped in BG3. Though I would appreciate more focus on the story. There are some really good ideas in the feedback section of the Larian Discord and I make sure, to upvote them, so that they don't get drowned out under the suggestions for more romance scenes for character X.

Sorry to disagree on your second point, but I'm actually quite ok with the gay couples as a lesbian woman myself, so I don't really mind it and Aylin and Isobel are actually quite cute together - the hetero tiefling couple too, where you save the man on Moonrise. But since they mostly have no impact on the story (not even Aylin and Isobel, who just chill in your camp most of the time), I don't think, that is really important.

To me companion content, romance or not, is what carries this game because the main plot becomes so completely boring by Act 3. It starts well in Act 1, but soon you realize that the mindfuckery from EA is gone.

i still don't understand why they completely removed the EA storyline. that was what drew people in. it's almost catfishing, or false advertisement on larian's part. it's crazy how i still remember that ring that Omeluum gave us in the underdark that disabled the mind flayer parasite from activating. When you speak to those dwarves in the underforge, and allow one of them to connect with your mind,they were unable to, and because of this they attacked you since you were'nt a true soul. In the release version of the game when I got the ring I was like..what? because they changed it into being some kind of resist charm ring.I'm sure Raphael's deal in the original storyline was more bigger than him being a disney villian at the end of act 3. A lot of things got scrapped as if they were still brainstorming the plot of the game. All of that should've got done way before they entered EA. Anyway OP, the reason why things don't make sense is possibly due to the many times they reworked the story and left the threads of the original version in.

Yes, I was so looking forward to seeing where Daisy will take me in the end. Now Daisy is gone, but the companions still comment on receiving tadpole gifts after the dreams.

The companions stories are interesting, no question. Especially Lae'zels had me on edge the first time - the creche was very intense. Shadowheart and her decision in act 2 was good too and I liked that Astarion made his master out to be this diabolical figure and then Cazador turned out to be a sadistic bookkeeper.

I just think, that there is too much focus on romances and peopel get riled up, when their romance has a flaw and it spreads all over the internet. Meanwhile soem of the main story points could do with some fine tuning - esepcially the three chosen ones, as op pointed out.


Tbh, I don't mind, that Daisy is gone and replaced by the Guardian. I didn't like her being all that touchy feely, even when I said no. I don't have a problem with the Guardian turning into the Emperor, but the EMperor turning into Balduran left me a bit like 'Oh, that isn't right'. Glad, I'm not alone with that.

Speaking as someone who agrees that the story of this game is a shambles, I do honestly think that several of the points you raise are ones that don't really matter all that much and would be totally acceptable if the rest of the story were better. For instance -

1. He figured stuff out and got into arms trading at some point. Same goes with

2. How he found the info is again not really the important part. It's part of the background and nothing especially interesting or meaningful to the plot was involved.

3. How they got the crown and why the archdevil who had it doesn't care is a worthwhile question, especially the part about Mephistophelese because that's a very reasonable, very interesting wrinkle. Like Raphael could have been working for M and trying to get the crown for himself. That's an improvement on the current plot that's both more complex but also creates a clear progression of events and motivations. As for why they share the crown for themselves? That's actually pretty easy to ansswer; they were told to do so by their respective gods, that seems like the obvious answer.

4. Yeah this is a little strained. The oath he gives is supposedly magically binding so it's actually not the craziest thing. Apparently he made Orin make a similar oath and she can't directly kill him as a result, so it's clearly pretty powerful.

5. Presumably this happened through the intervention of their respective semi-divine patrons. Elder Brains are powerful, but I don't have trouble believe that 3 semi-divine beings can pool enough power to overcome one long enough to put a crown on it. That it was a very risky plan doesn't really matter though. It worked, and we're dealing with the consequences. That's not even a plot issue, it's just an observation. For all we know they had to muster large amounts of resources and engage in a borderline war. What bothers me more is that this colony was seemingly the one under Moonrise Towers, that's been under the area all through the stuff with Kethric when he was a paladin of Selune, when he went to war, the shadowcurse, all of that and seemingly had nothing to do with any of it.

6. Yeah this whole thing with the Emperor isweird and a continuity mess. To be fair he didn't "casually" break free, it was a freak occurence, one that the game gives us another example of before we learn about the emperor. So him breaking free isn't the biggest issue. But how he ended up in the prism and why is all very strange and ill-defined.

7. Actually, the more I think about it the more sense it makes. He may have ultimately lost, but he still led a protracted war that required the union of two different factions to overcome him. Plus before that he successuly subverted the region into the control of Shar, captured a powerful celestial being and generally was a formidable presence. Plus if you read some of the texts around Moonrise Tower you see he came up with very effective strategies to bring various factions under the cult's control. He's clearly a very good general, you can be good at something and still lose. Regarding his loyalty, that actually makes perfect sense too. He is consistently motivated by Isobelle throughout everythingin his story; he turned from Selune to Shar because he was overcome with grief for her death and wanted Shar to make him forget. So of course Myrkul would look at that and rightly think that if he were to actually give Isobelle back to him, Kethric's loyalty would be assured. It's a very safe bet for Myrkul actually. As for the other stuff about resurection, I again put that under stuff that wouldn't bother me if the rest of the story were better.

8. Fylimar explained quite succinctly why Orin's actions were in-character. Dumb, but entirely in-character.

9. Yeah, that's weird and dumb.

I love romances and companion interactions, but now I know from BG3 that they can't carry the game if the underlying plot isn't solid.

I hope if there's a definitive edition some of the act 3 stuff will be fleshed out more, although there's only so much they can do to to fix the main plot at this point.

Maybe it's unfair to compare BG3's plot to that of the earlier installments in the series (which of course have the benefit of being parts of one big epic story focused on one character), but as a huge fan of the old games, I can't help it. The plots in BG1 and BG2 weren't entirely perfect, but they were really focused, with strong beginnings, middles, and ends that were all connected to the main villain. BG3 has too many plates spinning for one game, IMO.

OP, your points, and this whole thread, are excellent. And @fylimar and @Gray Ghost add some great additional points as well, as you always do.

And this whole point especially strikes a chord with me because I've also been making this same point. I don't blame Larian here. They want to make a ton of money from their game, and they have been brilliant in understanding what today's gamer audience truly wants, which is sex, sex, and more sex. And of course, unlike in a book or a movie or even porn, this is interactive sex, which is *the* key selling point.All the other talk about the supposed brilliance of this game are complete crap, which can so very easily be exposed if anyone cares to undertake even a very basic analysis of the game.

Not sure I will get the words right, but from an old blues song, “gave my baby a brand new Ford, and she said she wanted a Cadillac…gave her a penthouse and she said thanks for the snack.”

I am very impressed with the story, and I tried to play Starfield. Just couldn’t do it. Everything about BG3 keeps me interested, and when I fail at something, it genuinely impacts me.

Certainly, it has not been flawless, as bugs made me take about a three week break, but I can recall when I watched Pulp Fiction the first time. I thought I will be watching this movie for the next 50 years (if I live that long). I have the same feeling with BG3.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I kinda really love it.

Why would it be unfair?
It was Larians decision to rewrite large portions of the plot last minute to shoehorn their consequence free tadpole superpowers in (which also shows how little regard they had to the plot, story and writing ) and instead focused more on attracting simps with sex scenes and waifu companions.

Financially it was the right decision, but still resulted in a lower quality game once you see past the glamour.

What do you people think about the story up until the end of act 2? Let's say the game ends there with a ''to be continued" screen. Would this thread still have reason to exist?

Tbh, the old BG games had their horny crowds too - I remember, that a lot of discussions in those forums were about the romances too - not just the original ones, but the modded too.
And the game has its good moments, I know, you don't agree and I'm not trying to convince you, but there are characters and storylines,that are really memorable and good. I will play this game for many years, especially since I don't think, the next Dragon Age will be any good with all the old writers being gone and Bloodlines 2 has crushed my hopes too, since Brian Mitsoda is no longer involved - he made the first one the masterpiece, it is today (and great characters and no romance). I don't play that many games, but I 'm very obsessive, when I like a game. I do like BG3, there is enough good stuff to go with still.
I hope, that BG3 might bring us more roleplay focussed DnD games tbh.

It would have less glaring holes, but it still would not be good. The entire switch from tadpoles bad and must get out to tadpoles good and never a problem is much too sudden and imo undermines the premise. And even in act 1 there are holes like how tadpoles leave the body after death, except for you.

I personally found act 2 the strongest one. I do think, that Ketheric is an odd chosen, since he switches gods like others underwear. He is a great character and very well vioced (like all characters in teh game tbh). And I do like most of act 3 - I liek the whoel Bhaal storyline, it creeps my little horror fan heart out in a good way, I like the heist to free the prisoners, House of Hope, Shadowhearts quest ending, Astarions quest ending, the MInsc/Jaheira storyline, the hag survivors storyline - there is a lot, I do like.
I do agree with OP, that Gortash is a bit over the top and that the Balduran reveal was not a good story choice and the ending is kind of messed up.

I have commented this as well. Makes me so utterly dissappointed in people that so many can be so incredibly simple minded that they swallow everything raw as long as there is enoguh simp material.

Well I agree. I made a thread outlining specifically things that need to be improved here : https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=897086

But tbh I grew tired of maintaining it, as it seems like Larian is not listening or acknowledging how bad it is.

And if I may add, there were tons of things on top of what I wrote there, that I completely forgot, because the game is like 90 hours long..

The way I interpreted Ketheric is as a competent mortal that the gods compete over. A bit like football clubs trying to score the top players for their team. So I didn't really see it as a plot hole.

Ok, granted, that is another way to look at it, though I would be weary, that he jumps ship in a crucial moment.

I think it would've been much better, but still just like Ixal I hate the consequence-free tadpoles. I still remember back in EA when Nere could dominate your character purely on how deeply you went with using tadpoles (and the only things preventing it from happening was a) being a purist aka not using tadpole powers at all, b) using that mind shielding ring from Omeluum). I loved seeing consequences of my actions and just how far they would reach.

As it is currently, act 2 is still my favorite, but would've turned from being great to being exceptional only if there were more consequences at play. Like currently, you can slaughter the entire undead Thorm family and Ketheric doesn't know that or gives 0 shits. It could be one of those parts where actions have consequences (his reaction upon meeting us being similar to if we attacked him during the cutscene - "Z'rell, kill this fool"), but no.

Also, when it comes to Isobel, there is one glaring plot hole. Shouldn't she be an undead like the rest of her family? Sure she could still worship Selune but she could also hate her new 'unlife', it would make for a much more compelling plot. But no, all we know is that she has frequent nose bleeds and coughs blood, why? It's never answered and quickly forgotten about after she's reunited with Ailyn. My personal theory is that she's still dying, and sure, she was fully resurrected, somehow, but is suffering some consequences of that resurrection. It'd be much better explained if she was undead and then you'd have Ailyn battling with her love for Isobel and the fact that the love of her life is an undead. Very interesting conundrum and conflict, but nah.

The game is full of these weird moments where something is brought to our attention to be later entirely forgotten about soon after. It just really feels like the lead writer of this game suffers from some major ADHD, they bring all these cool ideas to play around with only to drop them 3-4 quests later. I don't even know how to explain it better. I legit preferred EA version of this game for this very reason. Sure, there were some holes on but as a whole it made logical conclusions of given plot points, instead of just jumping around like a hamster on coffee.

Exactly. Orin mentions Ketheric’s “crypt breath” when he’s close… seeing Isobel make out with Aylin was… ew.

And there are actual rules concerning full resurrection in DnD, you have few days tops, depending on the power of the cleric, condition of the body, soul departing etc… after 100 years Isobel would barely be a skeleton, let alone a pretty young woman. Also! She says after death all went black… again, not DnD. She would’ve become a petitioner in City of Judgement and would’ve been taken by Selune to her domain. Her death wouldn’t have been “blackness”, she would remember those things.



As for changing what happens after ACT 2… I’d actually start with ACT 2, in which you fight the illithids in Moonrise, not Thorm, so:

1. Remove Thorm, Emperor, Orin and Gortash, remove the crown and all nonsense connected to it, just make illithids and their Grand Design an actual big bad. PC motivation - remove tadpole, avoid becoming a mind flayer.

2. Develop Durge subplot x100, make it canon - Bhaal wants you to be a murder machine, wants to corrupt your soul but also wants you to die in the end to take it, because if you become a mind flayer - you lose the soul, Bhaal would not want that. So you’re fighting your heritage and the illithid domination, you’re fighting for YOUR OWN SOUL.

3. Good Ending - you defy both the Grand Design and Bhaal, save yourself, Neutral Ending - you commit to daddy, beat the illithids, but become Bhaal’s chosen full time and go to his domain after death, and Bad Ending - you become a mind flayer, lose your soul, planar war breaks out etc.

I actually think that the blackness she described was evidence that something about her death and afterlife was actually strange and improper, not just Larian being wrong about the lore. They don't actually follow up on it, which I find a waste and annoying, but that blackness points to something disrupting her soul's proper journey, which is I'm guessing how she was able to be fully resurrected. The way Kethric talks it's clear that Myrkul directly acted to bring her back, and I'd say that even if he's not a full god, he's still a death entity with power that goes beyond even a level 20 cleric, so I don't think him being able to break or bend some rules to fully resurrect Isobel is unbelievable. And regarding the crypt breath thing specifically, I of course can't be certain but I assumed that was just Orin being poetic, since she does talk in a very theatrical, metaphor and simile-laden manner (which I actually really enjoy.)

So I don't think the way things are breaks the fiction all that much, but would making Isobel specificaly undead have been better? I don't think so. I think it would have just made her a more complicated side character. I think if there was more focus on her and her story and character then that idea could be interesting, but as she's presented currently, she doesn't warrant any further twists and turns. She doesn't have a plot, she's herself a plot point in the act 2 story. She doesn't do things, things happen to her. She's got character and is fun to talk to, but once act 2 is over, she really doesn't see any growth, and really she doesn't see any growth in act 2 either. So making her outright undead would just add uneeded complexity in a game that's already got far too much of that as it is.

It’s unbelievable, at least for me as a person somewhat knowledgeable about the lore. Yeah it’s a magic fantasy world, but it has rules even gods can’t bend. Resurrection 100 years later is impossible, there’s no body, the soul departed…finita. Reincarnation, as in taking a petitioners soul and implanting it into a newborn with all the knowledge from previous life - yes. But the soul would most likely be VERY unhappy having to live a mortal life again, after experiencing afterlife.

That aside - the whole thing is just convoluted, over complicated and unnecessary. Why resurrect the dead, instead of just having normal villains? The villainous trio, along with the emperor and the crown nonsense is just a fail.

I do like Orin though. A proper psycho maniac. She is the best of the trio. Just bcos she’s pure, without too much unnecessary over complications (altho larian did make her a child born of incest rape… why? Can’t keep things simple, eh?).

Hence why I think they should have been more explicit about what went on with Isobel's soul, since they seem too imply setting weird but leave it unanswered. As for why bring back the dead, he's the chosen of Myrkul, whose whole thing is necromancy and bringing back the dead. It makes perfect thematic sense why he would resurrect someone rather than pick someone already living. I think you're missing the forest for the trees here a bit; there's nothing about the current villain set up that inherently can't work. The problem is that Larian put it all together badly. The problem is so few of the individual elements and strings of this game we've together, resulting in a story that feels messy and overcomplicated when if you lay it out, it's not really got that much of consequence going on.

Let’s try to make the positive cases for our own positions without taking digs at others who don’t share our takes.

And do fellow forum members the courtesy, if we are going to bring sexuality into the discussion, of not doing so in a heated way (and yes, that’s how dismissing something as an “absolute joke” comes across), given that topic’s clear relevance for very personal parts of people’s real lives.

Stupid thing is that Thorm worshipped Selune, then Shar. He never worshipped Myrkul while he was alive, he himself was never a necromancer, an evil mage or even a grave digger, he was a Selune worshipper who turned to Shar, got rekt and died. According to Ketheric himself, he became a chosen, in return for bringing back his daughter, which is absurd. Because he was also dead and buried at that point . How did he get in touch with Myrkul to arrange his own and daughter’s resurrection? Why would Myrkul agree? Nonsense. It absolutely can’t work. And as I said before, it is impossible to resurrect someone who died 100 years ago.

Myrkul would’ve chosen a proper powerful necromancer with lust for power and conquest, not some failed village elder who never worshipped him.

[I actually talked about this jn an earlier post in case you missed it.


As for how they got in contact, I'd assume Myrkul reached out to him, since I would think communicating with a spirit would be a fairly easy thing for Myrkul himself. Why he picked Kethric specifically I don't think matters too much since he clearly wanted a general for the Absolute's forces and Kethric fit that description. In fact Kethric is probably a better choice than some necromancer with a lust for power because its far easier to be sure of his loyalty and that he won't pull some kind of betrayal for more power. However you do make a good point about how Kethric was resurrected, since unlike Isobel I don't think we even get a hint of his death being anything unusual. So yeah the rules of resurrection there are even more clear broken.

It kinda makes sense, if you really want to justify larian decisions and assume stuff, but at the same time - it doesn't.

It all has to do with souls, and Gods, who are EXTREMELLY petty, greedy and jealous for them, even more so than Demons and Devils. Gods only care about HOW MANY people worship them, and have complete disregard for those who do not, especially the Evil Gods.

Yes, communicating with a spirit is easy for Myrkul, but Ketheric wasn't a spirit, he died, and his soul was supposed to be taken by Shar to her domain, and she would never EVER allow another God to just take him.

OK - let's assume Shar never cared to take Ketheric (there's a book describing how Lady of Loss sometimes abandons her worshippers for lols), and he was wandering Kelemvor's domain, never receiving judgement, so Myrkul took him in. Still my question is valid - 1. Why him? He's a failure. Myrkul immediately abandons Ketheric after we kick his ass in Moonrise, Evil Gods have 0 tolerance for failure. 2. After 100 years wandering on Fugue plane, Ketheric would most likely be approached by Devils or Demons, to "save" him from oblivion (cos that is the fate of unclaimed souls) and send him to Blood War, bcos of his military experience.

But we are going too deep into nerdy stuff, long story short - what Larian did doesn't make sense for anyone who is familiar with Lore and DnD Canon.

Dude, any and all mention of word "gay" or "lesbian" is heated for you, you gotta chill. I'm not talking about people's personal lives, I am talking about prevalence of gay relationships in a fantasy DnD game (majority of relationships shown are gay, and straight ones are shown in a bad way - why didn't this part of my comment bother you, your eye only caught on "gay") and it's effect on DnD fantasy immersion.

You're an absolute joke btw, you are projecting your own insecurities here. You gotta stop my dude - your perception is way too biased to form independent opinions and I am seriously tired seeing your prejudiced quotes for my comments, you're annoying. You're bringing stuff up from last page which nobody is discussing and everyone moved on, why are you bringing it up?

I'm very much like you. I have only a small number of cRPGs that I like, and I'd much rather just replay those games than waste my valuable time on a (new) game that I know I won't like. Happy for you that BG3 falls into your liked-games box. Sad (given my love of the old BG games) that it does not for me.

No offense but you seem to interpret any and all comments including the word "gay" as a slight towards a certain group of people.

I don't think choosing Kethric is that crazy. Firstly Myrkul doesn't have access to every great general in history as you point out- and I agree - he shouldn't have access to Kethric either. His pool of choices is limited not only to souls he can access, but souls who would want to rise again to serve him. And from that subset, they also have to be loyal, and Kethric's loyalty is very easy to buy for reasons I've gone over before.


Also, don't be insulting the mods. If you have issues with her maybe PM her without insulting her? Since you also missed the part of her complaint where she told you to refrain from those kinds of personal insults and jibes. Beyond not being smart generally, it's also just rude and unnecessary.

Yeah, I'm sorry, this game isn't for you, but I 'm hopeful, that there might be some new RPGs in the future.
I'm always amazed, how people move so quickly from one game to another. A lot of people, I know, went from BG3 to Starfield to the new Cyberpunk DLC in two month. I'm still on my second BG3 playthrough ( did Tav first, now Durge).
I'm especially looking for games, that keep me occupied fora while. When there is nothing and I don't want to replay old games, then I play short story games like what remains of Edith Finch or The Shore, but I can't jump from blockbuster game to blockbuster game.

I do want to add, that I like discussing with you. We are often of different opinions, but you are always really chill, I really appreciate that.

I absolutely agree in general with your observations that this plot after careful analysis is convoluted, incoherent and not cohesive.

I particularly like your second point and fully support it. I always felt that the Dark Urge story should have been the canonical story both for contiguity with the previous two chapters and for richness of interaction between your avatar and the created game world.
I think the problem with this lack stems from the multiplayer nature that this game and the latest Larian games in general want to have. Therefore if a player hosts his game he would become the protagonist of the story while the others who join the game would be comprimarios. I completely understand this, but it is undeniable that when playing in single player mode there is a certain lack of involvement and centrality of your avatar in the game. With Dark Urge this is slightly mitigated, but by choosing Tav as the origin it becomes overt. All the characters around you are more important than you and more considered than you, and it seems as if your avatar never had a past and isn't even the advocate of its future.
In that sense I much prefer the simpler, but better written story of the first two BGs and the sense of involvement of my avatar is enormously greater, while BG3 still remains a great game.

Clearly personal attacks on moderators are a bad idea and a quick way to get a suspension.

As always, if you have any comments or queries about moderation guidance, please PM us.

Resurrection rules are not what you think they are. Raise Dead has to be used within 10 days, but not the higher forms of Resurrection. True Resurrection. Soul free and willing to return. Did not die of old age. Dead less than 200 years. Touching the body if you have it, name use required if you don't. Resurrection can raise someone that has been dead up to 100 years.

The Red Queen behaves like the quintessential Victorian governess. She is overbearing, meticulously obsessive about manners, and civil in a self-righteous and supercilious way. Like the vast majority of the characters in Through the Looking-Glass, the Red Queen makes definitive statements with little regard for an abiding logic that would support them. Her assertions are often arbitrary recitations of strict behavioural advice, such as, “Speak when you’re spoken to!” When Alice reveals the inadequacy of the logic behind the Red Queen’s statements, the Red Queen asserts her arbitrary position of authority as a justification. The Red Queen’s constant badgering of and competition with Alice indicates profound feelings of antagonism. She fits into the framework of Alice’s dream as representative arbitrary authority, serving as a caricature of an overbearing governess figure at odds with her young charges.
https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/through-the-looking-glass/character/the-red-queen/

Thank you. And right back at you. Always love reading your posts.

Yeah I did a whole rant on reddit about how the devs are basically using porn to cover up how shallow the game is and i got more downvotes than i ever have before in my life. If you don't try to sleep with companions there is literally no reason to talk to them. The game is fun, I like it, but it is not goty material or a triumph of story telling that everyone says it is

Awe, thank you

Okay, speaking of arbitrary judgements that was actually pretty clever and made me laugh, so while taking digs at moderators is usually a quick way to get a suspension I'll let it slide this time. But no more derailing this thread with talk of or sideswipes at moderators, or I will be forced to assert my position of authority.

Apart from the holes and cut content, I have a feeling that the whole game is rushed. I'm just not feeling this long adventure. As if this was all just a prologue

Mostly I 'm ok with the pacing, but in act 3 it gets a bit convoluted.
Act 1 and 2 are good,story - and pacingwise. I don't know if I had needed the Absolute reveal that soon tbh.
Act 3 gives you a lot of urgency and yet there is so much to do apart from the main story. I like it, but realistically you would try to focus on the main task, I guess. If you have Jaheira recruited, she will at least tell you, that you have to make friends in the city to help you in the things to come. I don't know, how it is without her.

I still think, Omeluum should have been included in the last fight/ mindflayer decision, if alive.