Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Story is Bad (spoilers)

1. Where did Gortash get so much money? He's a cobbler's son who turned into a millionaire without doing any business.

2. Ok, Gortash is a Thief? He "found" (lol) the Grand Design (lol # 2 - why is it even there) book, while robbing (lol # 3 if it was so easy to rob, it would've been done ages ago. Or Gortash is a Master Thief - where is his exp. coming from then?) House of Wonders with Durge. Oh btw, Gortash escaped House of Hope... as a kid... just like that. And he has MS Teams as well, to give you a video call... while you're on a submarine...

3. Crown of Karsus, locked away by Mephistopheles SPECIFICALLY for it to be safe from everyone else, was also "stolen" by him. How did he know it's there? How did he get there? Why MEPHISTOPHELES does not care? How did our badass trio remove the gems from the crown? Also why did they share the gems between themselves, while each one has extreme distrust towards each other? Why didn't any of these power-hungry psychos just put the Crown on their own head?

4. Gortash knows you have a netherstone and an artifact. He is a Mastermind, a Genius, constantly fed insights by Bane. But he just tells you his whole plan (in the throne room for everybody to hear) and let's you go because... you pinky promised him? Lol.

5. You think that's absurd - check this out: our badass trio put the crown on an Elder Brain. Put. The. Crown. On. An. ELDER. BRAIN. OK let's assume the Elder Brain is ultra insightful (and it is) and it "allowed" them to do it in order to get control of the crown and spread the Grand Design - but there was no guarantee that the Brain could overpower the Crown. Too risky. Never would have happened. PLUS - whatever the Elder Brain is doing, it could've done without the Crown. How did the find the brain, how did they approach it unharmed?

5. "Emperor" is Balduran. LOL. He "feigned" allegiance to the Brain, then also casually "broke free" from it's domination. Why? How? If it was so easy, why we don't have a whole faction of Illithids outside of Elder Brain control? I didn't even understand why he is in the prison? To protecc Orpheus? Or suck off his mental power?

7. Why Myrkul chose Ketheric, a total failure, as his Chosen? He wasn't devoted to him, he got owned, he's just a big sad and impotent, which is proven by Tav once again. Ketheric and his daughter were alive 100 years ago... how are they alive now? Ok, they were "resurrected" (which is impossible after so much time.. but w/e), but why are they so normal? Instead of being skeletons?

8. Orin - Ace Killer, sneaks into your camp and "kidnaps" a companion. Why? Why not slit Tav throat and take everything (those ppl in the camp sleep like they're dead - Durge slaughters Alfira and nobody wakes up). Then you just Mak'Gora her 1v1, while the whole psycho murderer guild is watching.

9. Minor one, but still retarded - Balthazar does not know how to find Nightsong, while he is the one who imprisoned her... heheh, I rest my case.

The answer is simple. Its OH LOOK BEAR SEX!!!!!!!
*runs away*


Yeah, its bad.

I will quote everyone's favorite game dev:

"IT JUST WORKS"

- Todd Howard

But in all seriousness, good points and ones I picked up as well as I played, and so far I have no answers to that aside from - I guess everyone around Gortash was an incompetent fool?

I like the game, I really do, but you do make some good points.
I would add, that you get introduced to a very friendly mindflayer early in the game, Omeluum, but somehow it is not possible to ask him, to be the mandatory mindflayer for navigating the netherstones against the elder brain, if he is alive at the end? Despite him showing his willingness to sacrifice his own life to help you in the underwater prison to save the grand duke.

Somehow I wish, there would be more talk about the plot points that could be better, than five threads about Astarions romance scene being broken ( not hating here just an example).

I especially don't get, what the point is with Ketheric and Orin. He might have been a very capable general and probably still is, but he is also someone, who changes allegiance willynilly. Orin is an uncontrollable brat, totally unreliable, who turns against her own partner in crime. I do think it not out of character for her to toy with you rather than kill you, since that seems to be her thing according to a letter, you find ( from Durge, complaining, that she doesn't do enough killing for father dearest).
About Balthazar: I never had that dialogue,where he didn't know, where the Nightsong is, he said to me, that he can't be bothered and we should go and do that.

I have another one though: we already enter the Shadowfell for the Nightsong quest, why can't we do it to save Taniel? It should be possible to do that without Halsin, Jaheira was there back in the days and should have the same knowledge as Halsin, but somehow he is the only one, who can do it.

Because Halsin really really wanted to do it himself.

Hah good one, it shows the type of audience BG3 attracted. Majority of BG3 discussions online is about romance, kisses, sex etc. These ppl do not care that Story absolutely falls apart once you begin questioning wtf is going on, I just choose to ignore it and make up my own stuff.

It also doesn’t help immersion that everyone in Act 2 and Act 3 are either gay or lesbian, absolute joke. Straight couples, which are a minority here, are all either dead or broken apart, or that pathetic dwarf couple, where retarded husband beats the wife? Like, why is it in a fantasy RPG? How does it add to my Baldur’s Gate 3 fantasy experience?

It is good that I’m able to just shut those things completely out of my head, and I am just enjoying the gameplay. People who want a great story and fantasy world immersion are very disappointed with BG3.

Tbh, it is the same in every game - when there is romance, you attract a certain crowd. I'm not that interested in romance outside of what they can add to the story, and I still like those games.
I don't think, it only attracts those crowds, but people tend to attach themselves to certain characters, but tbh, that was no different with the old BG games. I still remember the horny Viconia threads in the old BG 1&2 forums, I was active.
But I guess, sex sells - I mean, I like modding my games - and to probably no ones surprise, nude mods are always the first ones, that come out, so I'm not surprised, that it is so hyped in BG3. Though I would appreciate more focus on the story. There are some really good ideas in the feedback section of the Larian Discord and I make sure, to upvote them, so that they don't get drowned out under the suggestions for more romance scenes for character X.

Sorry to disagree on your second point, but I'm actually quite ok with the gay couples as a lesbian woman myself, so I don't really mind it and Aylin and Isobel are actually quite cute together - the hetero tiefling couple too, where you save the man on Moonrise. But since they mostly have no impact on the story (not even Aylin and Isobel, who just chill in your camp most of the time), I don't think, that is really important.

To me companion content, romance or not, is what carries this game because the main plot becomes so completely boring by Act 3. It starts well in Act 1, but soon you realize that the mindfuckery from EA is gone.

i still don't understand why they completely removed the EA storyline. that was what drew people in. it's almost catfishing, or false advertisement on larian's part. it's crazy how i still remember that ring that Omeluum gave us in the underdark that disabled the mind flayer parasite from activating. When you speak to those dwarves in the underforge, and allow one of them to connect with your mind,they were unable to, and because of this they attacked you since you were'nt a true soul. In the release version of the game when I got the ring I was like..what? because they changed it into being some kind of resist charm ring.I'm sure Raphael's deal in the original storyline was more bigger than him being a disney villian at the end of act 3. A lot of things got scrapped as if they were still brainstorming the plot of the game. All of that should've got done way before they entered EA. Anyway OP, the reason why things don't make sense is possibly due to the many times they reworked the story and left the threads of the original version in.

Yes, I was so looking forward to seeing where Daisy will take me in the end. Now Daisy is gone, but the companions still comment on receiving tadpole gifts after the dreams.

The companions stories are interesting, no question. Especially Lae'zels had me on edge the first time - the creche was very intense. Shadowheart and her decision in act 2 was good too and I liked that Astarion made his master out to be this diabolical figure and then Cazador turned out to be a sadistic bookkeeper.

I just think, that there is too much focus on romances and peopel get riled up, when their romance has a flaw and it spreads all over the internet. Meanwhile soem of the main story points could do with some fine tuning - esepcially the three chosen ones, as op pointed out.


Tbh, I don't mind, that Daisy is gone and replaced by the Guardian. I didn't like her being all that touchy feely, even when I said no. I don't have a problem with the Guardian turning into the Emperor, but the EMperor turning into Balduran left me a bit like 'Oh, that isn't right'. Glad, I'm not alone with that.

Speaking as someone who agrees that the story of this game is a shambles, I do honestly think that several of the points you raise are ones that don't really matter all that much and would be totally acceptable if the rest of the story were better. For instance -

1. He figured stuff out and got into arms trading at some point. Same goes with

2. How he found the info is again not really the important part. It's part of the background and nothing especially interesting or meaningful to the plot was involved.

3. How they got the crown and why the archdevil who had it doesn't care is a worthwhile question, especially the part about Mephistophelese because that's a very reasonable, very interesting wrinkle. Like Raphael could have been working for M and trying to get the crown for himself. That's an improvement on the current plot that's both more complex but also creates a clear progression of events and motivations. As for why they share the crown for themselves? That's actually pretty easy to ansswer; they were told to do so by their respective gods, that seems like the obvious answer.

4. Yeah this is a little strained. The oath he gives is supposedly magically binding so it's actually not the craziest thing. Apparently he made Orin make a similar oath and she can't directly kill him as a result, so it's clearly pretty powerful.

5. Presumably this happened through the intervention of their respective semi-divine patrons. Elder Brains are powerful, but I don't have trouble believe that 3 semi-divine beings can pool enough power to overcome one long enough to put a crown on it. That it was a very risky plan doesn't really matter though. It worked, and we're dealing with the consequences. That's not even a plot issue, it's just an observation. For all we know they had to muster large amounts of resources and engage in a borderline war. What bothers me more is that this colony was seemingly the one under Moonrise Towers, that's been under the area all through the stuff with Kethric when he was a paladin of Selune, when he went to war, the shadowcurse, all of that and seemingly had nothing to do with any of it.

6. Yeah this whole thing with the Emperor isweird and a continuity mess. To be fair he didn't "casually" break free, it was a freak occurence, one that the game gives us another example of before we learn about the emperor. So him breaking free isn't the biggest issue. But how he ended up in the prism and why is all very strange and ill-defined.

7. Actually, the more I think about it the more sense it makes. He may have ultimately lost, but he still led a protracted war that required the union of two different factions to overcome him. Plus before that he successuly subverted the region into the control of Shar, captured a powerful celestial being and generally was a formidable presence. Plus if you read some of the texts around Moonrise Tower you see he came up with very effective strategies to bring various factions under the cult's control. He's clearly a very good general, you can be good at something and still lose. Regarding his loyalty, that actually makes perfect sense too. He is consistently motivated by Isobelle throughout everythingin his story; he turned from Selune to Shar because he was overcome with grief for her death and wanted Shar to make him forget. So of course Myrkul would look at that and rightly think that if he were to actually give Isobelle back to him, Kethric's loyalty would be assured. It's a very safe bet for Myrkul actually. As for the other stuff about resurection, I again put that under stuff that wouldn't bother me if the rest of the story were better.

8. Fylimar explained quite succinctly why Orin's actions were in-character. Dumb, but entirely in-character.

9. Yeah, that's weird and dumb.

I love romances and companion interactions, but now I know from BG3 that they can't carry the game if the underlying plot isn't solid.

I hope if there's a definitive edition some of the act 3 stuff will be fleshed out more, although there's only so much they can do to to fix the main plot at this point.

Maybe it's unfair to compare BG3's plot to that of the earlier installments in the series (which of course have the benefit of being parts of one big epic story focused on one character), but as a huge fan of the old games, I can't help it. The plots in BG1 and BG2 weren't entirely perfect, but they were really focused, with strong beginnings, middles, and ends that were all connected to the main villain. BG3 has too many plates spinning for one game, IMO.

OP, your points, and this whole thread, are excellent. And @fylimar and @Gray Ghost add some great additional points as well, as you always do.

And this whole point especially strikes a chord with me because I've also been making this same point. I don't blame Larian here. They want to make a ton of money from their game, and they have been brilliant in understanding what today's gamer audience truly wants, which is sex, sex, and more sex. And of course, unlike in a book or a movie or even porn, this is interactive sex, which is *the* key selling point.All the other talk about the supposed brilliance of this game are complete crap, which can so very easily be exposed if anyone cares to undertake even a very basic analysis of the game.

Not sure I will get the words right, but from an old blues song, “gave my baby a brand new Ford, and she said she wanted a Cadillac…gave her a penthouse and she said thanks for the snack.”

I am very impressed with the story, and I tried to play Starfield. Just couldn’t do it. Everything about BG3 keeps me interested, and when I fail at something, it genuinely impacts me.

Certainly, it has not been flawless, as bugs made me take about a three week break, but I can recall when I watched Pulp Fiction the first time. I thought I will be watching this movie for the next 50 years (if I live that long). I have the same feeling with BG3.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I kinda really love it.

Why would it be unfair?
It was Larians decision to rewrite large portions of the plot last minute to shoehorn their consequence free tadpole superpowers in (which also shows how little regard they had to the plot, story and writing ) and instead focused more on attracting simps with sex scenes and waifu companions.

Financially it was the right decision, but still resulted in a lower quality game once you see past the glamour.

What do you people think about the story up until the end of act 2? Let's say the game ends there with a ''to be continued" screen. Would this thread still have reason to exist?

Tbh, the old BG games had their horny crowds too - I remember, that a lot of discussions in those forums were about the romances too - not just the original ones, but the modded too.
And the game has its good moments, I know, you don't agree and I'm not trying to convince you, but there are characters and storylines,that are really memorable and good. I will play this game for many years, especially since I don't think, the next Dragon Age will be any good with all the old writers being gone and Bloodlines 2 has crushed my hopes too, since Brian Mitsoda is no longer involved - he made the first one the masterpiece, it is today (and great characters and no romance). I don't play that many games, but I 'm very obsessive, when I like a game. I do like BG3, there is enough good stuff to go with still.
I hope, that BG3 might bring us more roleplay focussed DnD games tbh.

It would have less glaring holes, but it still would not be good. The entire switch from tadpoles bad and must get out to tadpoles good and never a problem is much too sudden and imo undermines the premise. And even in act 1 there are holes like how tadpoles leave the body after death, except for you.

I personally found act 2 the strongest one. I do think, that Ketheric is an odd chosen, since he switches gods like others underwear. He is a great character and very well vioced (like all characters in teh game tbh). And I do like most of act 3 - I liek the whoel Bhaal storyline, it creeps my little horror fan heart out in a good way, I like the heist to free the prisoners, House of Hope, Shadowhearts quest ending, Astarions quest ending, the MInsc/Jaheira storyline, the hag survivors storyline - there is a lot, I do like.
I do agree with OP, that Gortash is a bit over the top and that the Balduran reveal was not a good story choice and the ending is kind of messed up.