Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

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A well-earned sweep at the Joystick Awards. Now for the Game Awards.

glad to see bg3 won game of the year. well deserved

I’m also glad to see that BG3 fans won the best community award. I believe it because we believe in Larian, and the actors, and the wonderful characters they created.

So im doing my durge playthrough, and got to experoence the karlachs *my engine may not make it* dialogue actually near the creche. So effectly act 1.
And she talks about having to reach dammon and SOON.

Might just be me being hopeful but the fact this dialogue was moved to this early in the game really gives creedence to the idea that her *fixable* engine ending is on its way down the pipe. I didnt see it as a *acceptance of death* speech like it was in act 3.
Moving it this far back into the story leaves alloottt of room for story changes in act2/act3.
Just my take away. Thoughts?

#JusticeforKarlach

I don't think that's new? I've been mostly not engaging with Karlach's content after my first playthrough and the huge disappointment of learning how her story ends, but I do distinctly recall getting that dialog about her engine in act 1 back in patch 2.

yea i think its a kind of random event that happens. i was on my 3rd playthrough when i got it and it gave nothing but false hope.

#JusticeForKarlach

It was included in the patch that gave us a few other extras (including the "upgraded" ending), always happens right before moving on to Act II.

It might be that they just wanted to flesh out what we already got, but either way, I refuse to give up hope yet.

Ah weird, yeah cause i remember it happening in act 3 the first time i got it with patch 2. It never happened in act 1 for me. Oh well, my bad sorry for the false alarm lol

Isn't that just progression to make the story clear? She knows she's on the clock so she wants to find Dammon, then it is revealed that he can't do that and there is no cure so she comes to term with her fate. Which is the only logical conclusion considering she's the only companion that can be turned into the mindflayer (obviously not counting playing as origins) and that the rumours about cut content turned out to be fake

I think there's 2 instances of dialog with her talking about the engine that got added in patch 2, one happens around the end of act 1 and the other near the beginning of act 3 if memory serves.

I saw a post today via Flipbook, in the post Samantha Béart actually comment that she thought the ending for Karlach was deliberate and well done.

https://www.gamesradar.com/baldurs-...sive-ending-is-actually-very-deliberate/

I can appreciate that sentiment (though I'm not one of the people or groups she's referencing, to be fair) but the problem for me is that the story is happening in a world where there literally *are* magical spells that would get her out of her predicament.
I've said it before, but: the problem isn't *just* that Karlach has a very unhappy ending with no good options. It's that she has a very unhappy ending that happens because you're just not allowed to try a bunch of things that would, within the rules of the setting, probably work. She's not only the only origin character where that's true, she's also the only one where her whole questline simply doesn't give you any ability to meaningfully impact the outcome (except for trying to convince her to go back to Avernus at the very end, I guess).
That leaves me of two minds about the whole thing. On the one hand, taken entirely on its own, the writing and voice acting for Karlach are great- the scene where she talks about finding the courage to be grateful for the time she has even though she knows she doesn't have long left genuinely made me tear up. On the other- that scene is only happening because my character isn't allowed to try, or even talk about, any of the multiple options I can think of that we haven't tried that would probably work, which is very frustrating to me.

I just realized what it reminds me of, actually: If anyone else has played the Owlcat adaptation of Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, there are a bunch of points in the story where you encounter a badly wounded person who tells you some information and then dies, and each time you're given some handwaving about why your healing magic won't work on them.
No matter how well any of those scenes might have been crafted in isolation, they always felt very jarring to me, because we've got people with us who can literally raise the dead, never mind healing serious injury- but the story needs the person to die, so you're just not allowed to do it.

Thats exactly the point that really bugs me is there are plenty of answers for karlach to be saved and even if they wanted to keep it as something that cant be fixed give me an option to go to Avernus and actually try. I mean Raphael's is always an option as far as i know so the reasoning for her not being able to stay there doesn't make sense either. Personally though as someone who has a heart condition i play games like these to escape the world and be happy that doesnt really work out when my favorite character is told too bad so sad you either die or give up your soul. That to me is just way too depressing to take as a "deserved" ending.

#JusticeForKarlach

Tbh this is why in my mind, even if there's a better option, it should never be a complete magical way out (regardless of the dnd world and Withers resurrecting everyone after falling into abyss on a casual thursday), and should definitely be a trade off with a catch. Loving the character and wanting a fairytale ending for her in theory is all good and well, but in regards to her story and the way others' plots go, it's like. Not it, I don't think. (Might have written a fic about that exact thing, sure, but as far as canon goes - I do respect this reading Sam is talking about, and it's really important too.)

Something like a still significantly-shorter-than-normal lifespan, or the engine still forever hurting and/or leaving her disabled in some way. Still a parallel to a disability, to a chronic illness, hell, even terminal still - just not quite so immediate past gaining her freedom, maybe? (even V, references to whom have been beaten to smithereens in this thread already, gets 6 months at least!)

Or at the very least, the same endings as now, but with a fuller quest (and for real, what's up with the amount of infernal iron everywhere in Act 3, as far as I know it can't be used for anything else in the game? am I really actually collecting this heavy stuff and dragging it around as a metaphor for futility? I mean, genius design if yes, but also doubtful), I maintain that the content disbalance (with Wyll too) is felt.

I think this is one place where the lack of epilogues really hurts the game's story.
There's actually ways you could play the "Karlach and MC go to Avernus together" ending in a more positive way- it'd still be bittersweet rather than a straight happy ending, but especially with some of the stuff around the House of Hope there's room for some interesting directions you could take it and have a more satisfying ending even if the engine doesn't get fixed.
But we don't get any epilogue, so the last thing you see is Karlach returning to the place she's spent the whole game saying she considers a fate worse than death, and that's that.

It's actually funny (not in an accusatory way, I'm just making an observation!) that this is almost word-for-word the complaint that got us the current Avernus scene with the cigar and all. Because when it was just cut to black from the pier people said "Excuse you, what happens next, can't we at least see them arrive to Avernus safe and sound so that we know they'll be okay?" And then Larian gave us the epic music doom-style epilogue cutscene (still the only companion who got one, it bears acknowledging), which, while abrupt in tone, is arguably the most optimistic they could make that situation look...

...and still that leaves enough questions and fears to not feel good about it at all sometimes.

I am really curious to see what they eventually do about the whole "We didn't think you'd want to watch a 20-minute slideshow at the end of the game, but you've proven us wrong" thing. If nothing else, I'll take some more canon crumbs about Karlach and Tav/Wyll/both being fine, for the soul~

I still want a happy ending where Karlach gets a magic ending, this is a game with multiple endings to it anyway and adding one that's happy doesn't take away from how heartbreaking her story really is. As many have already said it just feels so pointless doing her quests and dialog since she has 0 chance to get saved or helped.

#JusticeForKarlach

My problem with this is since Zariel is so obsessed over karlach as to order minthara to track her down and bring her back to hell there isnt anything stopping her from just sending wave after wave to kill everyone but karlach and then take her all over again. Without anything more as far as content goes its honestly one of the most depressing endings.

Id argue you cant take the VAs statement that the ending was well done and deliberate as anything other then smart business on her part.she has stated before even if she had an issue woth how the characters arc or ending was, and she voiced it out online or publicly. Thats a quick way to ensure larian wouldnt hire her again.
Which is fair.

Ill just keep huffing my hopium til GOTY edition or til its clear its not coming