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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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Just started up a new playthrough, loving the new animations in camp. Just got karlach her first upgrade, and alrdy feeling the tinge to put the game down cause I am again reminded theres no fix for her yet, wish me strength as I continue to act 2 to see this new kiss animation!
#JusticeforKarlach Say strong, buddy! That kiss is worth it.
Last edited by Walking Kole; 07/11/23 08:52 PM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Ok I've just finished the game after 2 months without touching it because of knowing Karlach's fate. I design (in my head) a full quest related to her engine after finding the Steel Watch Foundry. I think this could satisfy anyone, because it offers bad ends, 50-50 ends and good ends. Plus it gives the player a hard challenge with a lot of prerequisites about people to save at early stages of the game. Feel free to give your opinion about it.  Step 1 : The fate of the Foundry
You face the "heart" of the Foundry with Karlach in your group. Whatever if you have the Wulbren's bomb or the help of the blind gondian, Karlach feels her engine vibrating/reacting to the foundry and tells you that she feels like this place can be a solution to her heart and ask you to not destroy the foundry yet.
Here you already have a choice :
Choice 1 : You find this possibility too dangerous, as the Steel Watchers are a really bad things and you destroy the Foundry anyway.
=>Consequence : After the boom, Karlach yells at you, considering you betrayed her and condemn her to die. She wants to explode with you but doesn't have the energy to do this. After a monologue where she's devastated to have been betrayed again by someone she trusts, she leaves your group. Later when you face Gortasch, he let you understand that Karlach faced him in order to avenge herself of him, and tried to kill him by booming her heart. But he was too smart to fall into a so obvious trap and she have exploded for nothing. Quest ends here. (Bad end for her)
Choice 2 : You listen to her and don't do anything to the Foundry. You quit the place.
=>Consequence : As the Foundry still exists, Steel Watchers are not destroyed, so the fight against Gortsach will be way harder. Quest continues with Step 2.
Short cinematic transition and you're outside. Again, different choices but related to who you saved/kill/listen to :
Choice 1 : pre-requisite : Gondians are dead (you don't save them/you let Wulbren kill them) and Dammon is safe : You ask Dammon if he can create a new engine for Karlach with the help of Ironhand gnomes. As he's a decent blacksmith, he uses all the infernal iron you have to create a "heart engine", which is a quest item.
Choice 2 : pre-requesite : Gondians are alive (so you save them in the prison + you take their side/listen to Barcus) : You ask Gondians to create a new heart to Karlach. As they're the best blacksmith in Fayrun, they use all the infernal iron you have to create a "quality heart engine", which is a quest item.
Dammon/The Gondians forge the new heart. As Karlach is super excited, Dammon/Gondians tell you that the actual engine in Karlach is too unstable to be replaced here, and she have to return to Avernus to replace it. She's a bit angry to hear that, but she agrees to make one last jump in Avernus.
THIS lead the player to a popular place for all of us : the House of Hope.
So here Karlach can have her "heart surgery". But this place is the place of Raphael, and this Demon is not a Mother Teresa that will allow you to use his house to save someone. At this point if you want to save Karlach, you'll have to kill Raphael (and save Hope btw).
Once it's done (and trust me it's not an easy point to kill Raphael), you can use the House of Hope the way you want with the blessing of Hope.
The game let you the possibility to ask someone's help to practice some surgery, or you can try it yourself with a [Medicine] check. Here's maybe the point where I don't know who we can call, I had Omeluum (if you save him) or Araj Oblodra in my mind but I don't remember all the useful NPC we encounter so far... Anyway you can do it yourself so let's say you do your Medicine Check.
As it's something hard, we can imagine a successful check at 20.
If you succeed the surgery, Karlach is saved.
If you fail the surgery, Karlach dies.
Depending on which engine you have, here's the list of all the ends :
End 1 : You successfully replace the broken engine with the quality heart engine ==> Karlach is now safe and she can live wherever she wants without being afraid of her heart. Even if he's no more organic from years, her feelings are still here and her heart can always melt (figuratively) (Good End)
End 2 : You successfully replace the broken engine with the heart engine ==> Karlach is now safe and she can live wherever she wants without being afraid of exploding. But even if she cannot boom anymore, her heart can overheat sometimes, draining all her energy. Now at the beginning of every combat turn, you'll have to make a constitution check. Under a 7 or with a Nat 1, Karlach's turn ends immediately and her heart deals 1pt fire damage (Good End but with an unconvenient disadvantage on her combat gameplay)
End 3 : You failed the surgery ==> Karlach dies (Bad End)
End 4 : You destroy the Foundry without listening Karlach ==> Karlach leaves the Group and eventually dies later (Bad End)
Other Ends : You don't do any of the 4 steps/Karlach is not in your group when you destroy the Foundry ==> All the actual ends (Bitter sweet/50-50/Bad Ends)
Thank you for your time 
Last edited by Kimba; 08/11/23 11:36 AM. Reason: correct a vocabulary mistake
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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That would have been a lot more satisfying than what we have so far. Seems like you put a lot of thought into this and I like your ideas! The only thing I am not entirely sure about is if the current ending options get somewhat locked out with that questline. since you essentially either give her a premature death or progress towards the happy end, unless you completely ignore the questline. The return to avernus end would be basically gone, if you don't want to skip on a chunk of gameplay.
One option I could see is to simply be unable to fix her if all of the Gondians die, but Dammon telling her that she should try finding a master smith in Avernus or something along those lines, now that she has some blueprints or samples of an upgraded version. That would even open the door to some future Avernus DLC, if Larian were so inclined. As for Step 3: For the NPC we could be calling, another one that comes to mind would be Mystic Carrion - he evidently knows how to perform surgery. It would come with a price tag, and I'm not entirely sure what that would look like. Could be gold, could be something else.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2023
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either of those would be cool to see. Ill be here on the copium
hoping larian is listening
#justiceForKarlach
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2023
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Very cool points, i like most of it.
The surgary thing is something ive wanted aswell, but more hoping to give her back her real heart * if thats at all possible* as i think that would be super touching
But thats just a personal preference
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2023
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that would be really poetic. id love to see something like that
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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Step 1 : The fate of the Foundry
You face the "heart" of the Foundry with Karlach in your group. Whatever if you have the Wulbren's bomb or the help of the blind gondian, Karlach feels her engine vibrating/reacting to the foundry and tells you that she feels like this place can be a solution to her heart and ask you to not destroy the foundry yet.
Here you already have a choice :
Choice 1 : You find this possibility too dangerous, as the Steel Watchers are a really bad things and you destroy the Foundry anyway.
=>Consequence : After the boom, Karlach yells at you, considering you betrayed her and condemn her to die. She wants to explode with you but doesn't have the energy to do this. After a monologue where she's devastated to have been betrayed again by someone she trusts, she leaves your group. Later when you face Gortasch, he let you understand that Karlach faced him in order to avenge herself of him, and tried to kill him by booming her heart. But he was too smart to fall into a so obvious trap and she have exploded for nothing. Quest ends here. (Bad end for her)
Choice 2 : You listen to her and don't do anything to the Foundry. You quit the place.
=>Consequence : As the Foundry still exists, Steel Watchers are not destroyed, so the fight against Gortsach will be way harder. Quest continues with Step 2.
One thing I would change there is make it so if you have enough goodwill with Karlach, she doesn't want to kill you even if you do betray her because at that point she cares too much about you, rather than not having the energy to do it. However, if she doesn't hold you in high regard, she should get angry enough to actually try to do it then and there.
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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Attention all forum dwellers! Our very own Invuska has created a dialogue parser so you can see what the differences are between patches. If you want to see whether they've added new lines or corrected old ones, you can check that out here.
Last edited by Walking Kole; 09/11/23 05:56 AM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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Hopping on the bandwagon re: how would we obtain a new heart-engine in Act 3 and had this idea that after Gortash, we could have a silent continuation (read: doesn't show up as a next objective until triggered by said event) of the heart quest where we'd:
-Have to find Dammon, hopefully fixed and unbugged now, at the infernal forge in BG
- Karlach would say something about feeling hopeless and so angry because turns out Gortash sold her to Zariel because she could withstand the pain and peril of the prototype engine - which turns out was later used to make the engines in the Steel Watchers
- Dammon had no idea and his brain cogs start ticking, he'd ask us to bring a SW engine to him for studies and dismantling
- We either have one already or need to fetch it, depending on forge status maybe? Could pick it there
- Bringing it back to Dammon he could try to figure out how to implement the finalized engine model into Karlach
- It turns out to be quite risky but if we have saved the Gondians, we'd have a higher chance/instant success rate to make it happen
- Fetch a Gondian or if the quest with them gets a new reward for saving them, helping us help Dammon
- Dammon with all the tools at hand figures out a Karlach Heart Engine 2.0
- Up comes the medicine check. Should be quite high to succeed, or a three parter where it goes from 10 to 15 to 20. There has to be some healing spells/restorative spells going since she'd be without a heart for a moment, or we could skip that altogether and have Dammon add parts/coolant/alloy to the existing engine directly in her chest. Trickier but she remains alive throughout the entire session.
-Heart cooled off, Karlach's story comes to a nice end. She started off as a sold prototype host, came back to use the stuff that was taken from her to get a new life, her dear "heart" back but in a new, better way.
Bonus: if Karlach hasn't romanced anyone she could opt in to further flirt with/kiss Dammon. Know tons of fans who'd dig the duo getting together or at least Dammon getting something for his hard work.
NO NEED FOR TRAGEDY, LARIAN.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Good point you have here indeed. I include some permadeath in my mind because I feel like Karlach is written to be tragic in some way, like someone terminally ill. So as the quality of her quest cannot beat Shadowheart's one overall, succeed to have a happy end (or a living end) needs to be more like a russian roulette. Something really risky all the time, very hard to obtain but so satisfying if successful.
For the "The return to avernus end would be basically gone" part. I partially agree, as it will be weird to have her saying "it's too late" if you start building a new heart but don't finish it. But for example with Lae'zel, I let the Emperor eat Orpheus brain without launching the Voss+Hammer quest final step to avoid the dilemma about freeing Orpheus or not. If I had Lae'zel in my party at this moment, she would definitely have left the group. But instead I play it without her. So at the final scene she was not angry at me, she just say something like "I turned my back on my queen and my entire race, they'll never forgive me and will hunt me everywhere, what will I become now?", and you still can convince her to stay with you (yet she doesn't come with you in Avernus anyway which is another weird sequence of decisions). About Karlach it should not block the return to Avernus way if you let her quest as is, be it will sound really weird. And if you totally ignore the quest, well that's the actual "best" end we have so it's cool, nothing change.
Anyway, I find your idea much better about Dammon, so you really have to save at least 2 gondians to have a good end. It's more coherent, even if I was proud about the idea to have a malus, like it's a happy end for her but not that much good for you as a player & the gondians.
I would love to have an Avernus DLC, but I keep in mind they announce it is not part of their future plans, so I tried to put a lot of ideas without adding a place, adding characters, deleting existing cinematics or something. Only using what we already have in game.
Plus I find it full of symbolism, the fact that those who are oppressed by her worst enemy are the only ones who can save her, and to be saved she have to let the great achievement of her worst enemy (the Steel Watcher) staying alive. Oh the irony it could be in both way.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2023
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that sounds really good too. i hope we can hear something concrete from larian. even just confirmation that theyre working on a happy ending for karlach where her heart can be repair/replaced/ or fixed. its been said but ill say it again, this is dnd theres no reason this problem cant be solved.
#JusticeForKarlach
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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To be honest it would be nice if Larian made an official statement one way or another saying something like yes we're still taking feedback or no the ending's are how we want them. Unless they have already and I missed that.
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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To be honest it would be nice if Larian made an official statement one way or another saying something like yes we're still taking feedback or no the ending's are how we want them. Unless they have already and I missed that. I think we have to wait until the game will be released on all platforms. Then they can say we're done with the release and start working on bigger changes.
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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And thanks all for the theorycrafting  . It is nice reading and I really like all the ideas u have here how we can save Karlach. I hope we'll see on of them in the game in the future.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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In Sept 8th, the boss of Larian said that only a part of the studio still works on BG3, and the others are already working on another big project/game. We can expect they'll continue to work on BG3 until sept 2024 at least. As a French, there's also some French game sites that read a lot of the Reddit & the Forum, thinking one of the next major Patches will be a major upgrade about Karlach based on datamining of the new game files (and the fact all the main asks from the players are all datamined... all except, probably, the most expected : Karlach) https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/bXUDiULYzt.About their new game, there's no information yet but they have all my trust if they want to release a BG4.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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I've never been more excited for the ability to hug virtual characters  .
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2023
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In Sept 8th, the boss of Larian said that only a part of the studio still works on BG3, and the others are already working on another big project/game. We can expect they'll continue to work on BG3 until sept 2024 at least. As a French, there's also some French game sites that read a lot of the Reddit & the Forum, thinking one of the next major Patches will be a major upgrade about Karlach based on datamining of the new game files (and the fact all the main asks from the players are all datamined... all except, probably, the most expected : Karlach) https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/bXUDiULYzt.About their new game, there's no information yet but they have all my trust if they want to release a BG4. Please god (Larian), that's all we want. Also the hugs are a huge bonus, can't wait.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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Somebody found my reddit post I see hahaha Yes, that' be me, HOPING to keep the Karlach stuff alive even on Reddit. Also, Karlach is the charscter who's got the most changes and new lines ingame since 1.0/Release version when compared to all other characters.
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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In Sept 8th, the boss of Larian said that only a part of the studio still works on BG3, and the others are already working on another big project/game. We can expect they'll continue to work on BG3 until sept 2024 at least. As a French, there's also some French game sites that read a lot of the Reddit & the Forum, thinking one of the next major Patches will be a major upgrade about Karlach based on datamining of the new game files (and the fact all the main asks from the players are all datamined... all except, probably, the most expected : Karlach) https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/bXUDiULYzt.About their new game, there's no information yet but they have all my trust if they want to release a BG4. Can you gives us some links to those French sources?
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Here it is for this case : https://www.dexerto.fr/baldurs-gate...nnage-chamboulee-prochain-patch-1521001/The article in itslef is more like a summary of all the major comments. But they are used to summarizing the biggest reddit threads. At first it was more about weird challenges player try to do in the game. Now they are rather on the lookout for the latest content rumors. But don't take it too seriously, it only gives active players concerned by BG3 evolution like us more visibility for others, there is no official reveal about next patches in their news
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