But by all means, if an additional Armageddon difficulty level can make more players happy, then by all means do it. But would these players still be happy if they can't be Gods anymore but can only use 2 attacks per round, can't go over 24 AC, and do miss some attacks and save throws from time to time ?
Well Pathfinder just released a new dlc. So I started to play it. Turned on the hardest difficulty. And I am constantly die. I loaded back so manny times the letters are starting to fade from F8. Well it is true that I got lazy by playing bg3. But you know what I enjoy Wotr better. For sure it has to do something with that fact that it's not lagging an stuttering. And it's working on SteamDeck.
To answer the first quote, YES. Seriously. DnD 5e is balanced around certain aspects, like the bounded accuracy. Case in point, a character between levels 1-3 has got +5 to hit. That means against an enemy with 13 AC they have got roughly 65% chance to hit (They must roll 8 and above to hit). The AC increased slowly, due to bounded accuracy. The highest AC in the bestiary is 25.
To put into perspective. A level 20 fighter with Belt of Storm Giant Strength and a weapon of +3 has got attack roll of 6+9+3 = 18. 25 - 18 = 7. That means even a high level fighter can't expect to hit more than 2/3 of the time. And that extends to other classes as well, even more so for casters, who don't get such crazy modifiers for the most part.
Let's not forget about health, as Larian loves to buff all enemies due to their sheer power creep and hate of 5e ruleset. Torrasque, CR 30 monster, average health: 676. Raphael has got almost the exact amount and he is not even a Pit Fiend (average of 300 hp)!
This combined with things like double bless effects (Underdark staff), means a character with a level 2 spell cast on them, has got 2d4 to all attack rolls, saving throws, etc, which averages at +6 to all of those.
This whole thing is due to Larian thinking they could change rules willy, nilly, add overpowered magic items and still make it work. As it turns out, they can't. Tactician isn't hard, the game isn't hard, especially with all those buffs to the players, nerfs to control spells and just straight out bizarre decisions, like Shove being a bonus actions.
You want to make the game harder? Here is how you can do it:
-Limit magic items to 3 attunment slots, with the exception of common items (like leather helmet, etc). It lowers overall power from the players and prevents a simple combo of returning pike, ring of flinging and something else to deal more damage than it should be possible. -Nerf Tavern Brawler. That shit is op as fuck and not in a good way. -Remove at least half of the magic shit we get. It's ridiculous! Magic items are basically vendor trash, not a reason to dive deep into the dungeons. Being able to buy them is even worse. -Revert rules to 5E. Haste should not extra full bloody action. Shove should require an attack action. Allow player to trip opponents, grapple them, etc. -Get rid of bonus action attacks, all of them. That's not how it should work. You should be able to attack once and maybe use your bonus action to deal one extra attack due to having 2 light weapons. Not stacking bonus action to smite with!
And that's just a start. I have made other threads, when it comes to balance and 5e rules. And while I like BG3, the balance is an absolute shit show.
Last edited by Annoyed Player; 22/11/2306:48 PM. Reason: Typos
while I like BG3, the balance is an absolute shit show.
Amen to that. I don't care at all that many rules had been changed compared to 5e... it is often for the best. But even basic mechanics like shove and jump are totally broken... How do you want to create consistant and challenging difficulty levels for everyone in a turn based game if some core systems are broken OP and if "exploits/cheese" (intended or not) are all arround.
The game is not hard enough for ppl to look out for guides and class guides. The game its self got more attention then Elden Ring and I think its even more successful in some ways. The fact that BG3 Is nomination in all kind of game award is the highest in this and past years. This view amount should be dubble or triple.
But it's fact that half of the amount of the ppl watching guides for bg3 then for elden ring. And I see that YouTube channels that usly covering class guides are have trouble to get viewers. Because the game is not so hard. And I don't think it have to do with turn based combat. Because soul like games are way more alien unpopular games. At least before Elden ring.
And actually this somehow hurts the games promotion and long term playability. Because yourtube promotes popularity and bg3 class guides are not so popular. So almost all content creators dropped it now. But elden ring was riding (class guides) that goat horse for a years on yourtube.
Instead of getting new difficulty level we will get new (old) Astraion kiss. This is nothing but spit in the face to large part of community. Made my walktrought when patch 1 was released. Then i played Solasta and Jagged Alliance 3 with my bro. And guess what? Solasta have same redaction of D&D, if I remember correctly. But U can't wear more than 3 unique artefacts at same time. You can't push and attack at one turn. No tons of potions of speed etc.. Even in such cheap (in comparsion with BG) game like Solasta sometimes was more fun and hard. I've waited BG-3 since i was teen and finished BG-2. And such dissapointment.
This video explain why the game dont have really a difficulty slider. Because ind BG3 the D20 dice is irrelevant. And actually if someone wants he can have all 35 armor class 15+ saving troves with advantage and on the top of that tavern brawler. This will net anyone a 98% chance of success in both defense and offensive. W/o using any spells or potions tadpole powers or extra companions.
Its not my feedback but here is another YouTuber speaking about the difficulty and why we don't need guides.
I think this is bad because youtube sold BG3 to ppl. Those ppl put a lot of work and effort to make this game popular. And now they cannot benefit from it. I understand them on my own way. I still think praiseing something to god hood is wrong. But it's is what it is.
And I don't think "Honor mode" will fix this issue. If something is easy it doesn't matter if you have just one save.
I wanted to try something new and I had not yet played Pathfinder, so I picked up Kingmaker with all it's DLC while on sale and gave it a shot. I began with Normal mode but did limited saves and started out. HOLY CRAP, this game made me think and work way more in actual tactical combat than BG3, that is for sure. Further this is not the hardest mode.
I have been defending BG3's difficulty but now I have to say, okay I see it.
I am just downloading the patch but I am more excited then at the launch. I hope it will live up to our expectations. I dont want to say anything in advance about the new difficulty.
But I am glad for anyone here to give a honest feedback and supporting this thread. Thanx to everyone for the effort and feedback.
I wanted to try something new and I had not yet played Pathfinder, so I picked up Kingmaker with all it's DLC while on sale and gave it a shot. I began with Normal mode but did limited saves and started out. HOLY CRAP, this game made me think and work way more in actual tactical combat than BG3, that is for sure. Further this is not the hardest mode.
I have been defending BG3's difficulty but now I have to say, okay I see it.
YUUUP.
From Obsidian CRPGs 'Path of the Damned,' Solasta has Scavenger and Cataclysm, Owlcat's Everything...even Wasteland 3 had Supreme Jerk as a 4th difficulty level. DOS 2 was more obnoxious than strategic, but at least it tried. Hopefully, the new difficulty at least tries as well.
Super excited with this patch. Just started an Honour Mode playthrough. Haven't even gotten to the grove yet, but I'm really hoping for an increase in difficulty. I still managed to kill the mind flayer and commander on the Nautiloid, but I never thought that was too easy in the first place. In my opinion, a lot of that fight comes down to a bit of luck with the rolls, even with the best approach.
Custom Difficulty is a step in the right direction. You can make the game harder without adding stat bloat which is not a real answer to anything. However, it completely fails to address the biggest offenders that actually make the game too easy.
- "Help" bringing back downed characters indefinitely. I can't overstate how OP this action is with Larian's change. Especially when the party outnumbers the enemy. Make Help only stabilize on harder difficulties.
- Death has no consequences. Resurrection scrolls everywhere + Withers. Drastically reduce the availability of cheap resurrection.
- No restrictions for Long Resting wherever and as much as you want. Camp supplies is not a real mechanic. You never run out, and even if you do it doesn't make the game more difficult, only more tedious. Spamming Long Rest needs more tangible consequences, like wandering monsters. Grab the bull by the horns, and completely overhaul the Long Rest (and Fast Travel) system to actually impact gameplay on harder difficulties, in the spirit of D&D 5e.
- Potion throwing. Like Help, but from a distance. Getting downed should be a massive tactical disadvantage. With Larian's changes to 5e, getting downed is a slight temporary inconvenience at best. Disable potion throwing on harder difficulties. That's not how potions work. You need to drink them.
- Being able to change your memorized spells at-will. Makes both combat and non-combat content too easy when you always have an optimal combat loadout and access to things like Knock and Detect Thoughts. Only allow changing memorized spells at camp when Long Resting.
- Too many consumables available for both combat and non-combat use. Reduce the amount of consumables on harder difficulties.
- Shove distances are too long and long falls are everywhere. Reduce Shove distances on harder difficulty.
Spectacular analysis and good advices! - Helping up a downed character often makes party invincible. And stabilizing is indeed the most canonical alternative in D&D mechanics. - There was formula in old BG games: character level*100gp=price of ressurection. Can serve good to BG3 as well. - The absence of restrictions on long rest is deeply embedded in the mechanics of storytelling. While I understand your reasons, I truly can't see the way how it will be possible to change without massive losing of content. Not only secondary plot of companions but main plot as well have deep integration into the current mechanics of long rest. - Can't agree more about Potion throwing - it's completely devalues casting healing spells. - 'Only allow changing memorized spells at camp when Long Resting' A, good old days of 3.5 edition.
The other points are also very reasonable.
On my own, I want to add that the growth of experience is going too fast. For scientific purposes I slowed Exp progression for 20%. If earlier I had the maximum level at the beginning of the third chapter, now I have the tenth, which feels more logical. In addition to the fact that there is room to grow, quests become even more valuable.
Well they sold me the new difficulty. I already died twice. Considering that previously I finished the game without die. And kind of w/o rest. I was trying to use the same strategy what I did BEFORE. BUT IT DON'T WORKS It's almost feels like they watched my video series. All previous positioning that could avoid being hitted are changed. There are surprises. And I am amazed what is counting as boss.
As a casual daddy I am dieing. So I like it. Why because it will let me to play with friends because it's harder baby.
The only thing that is bothering me that I cannot have this difficulty increase in the custom mode.
Shields increase your AC even when they're not equipped. You can use a Heavy Crossbow while getting that fat shield AC bonus. Remove Shield AC bonus if the shield is not being used.
That means the free equipment switching also needs to go. Otherwise you can just cheese end your turn with a shield equipped regardless of what you did or had equipped.
Stuff like this add tactical depth. When you can't just do everything and have to make choices, the game becomes harder in a more meaningful way than just giving all enemies some arbitrary stat bloat.
And just realized how the amped up Jump distances make things really easy too. Placing enemy archers or spellcasters in advantageous positions doesn't mean much when a melee character with 18-20 Strength can jump ridiculous distances and heights to engage them instantly. And likely use the same "height advantage" against them and push them down. So cut jump distances, too. The spiderman jumping devalues magical jumping and flying, too.
Why do they turn everything up to 11 and then we wonder why the game is so easy?
Why do they turn everything up to 11 and then we wonder why the game is so easy?
They were warned that this would happen in early access. The easiest way to break 5e as a system is to fuck with the action economy. Pretty much the first thing that Larian did was that. Seriously, they didn't even hesitate. The bonus action got overloaded immediately by converting full actions to bonus actions. Then they increased the potency of those bonus actions, like in the case of shove or potions. Haste now gives you a full additional action because they thought that that would probably be easier to understand without considering how that increased the power of the spell substantially. Spells like Flaming Sphere or Spiritual weapon don't require a bonus action to command, they now essentially behave like minions which means that the bonus action is available for other options. The concentration requirements of many summons are completely removed. The thought there might have been that this would open up a wider variety of concentration spells to spellcasters but the situation it created is one in which there is no real downside to summoning all available summons which means that every spell caster with access to summons now has an easy way to tip the action economy in their favor.
To me it feels like the game designers just didn't have a person in the room with them that was familiar enough with 5e to tell them what the ramifications would be of homebrewing the system in that way. Or if there was, that person just didn't have enough say on the direction they were heading and was promptly ignored. They probably didn't really think that this would actually bother anyone, or maybe they dismissed people that voiced their discontent as 5e purists that wouldn't be happy with any change. Well, I'm not a 5e purist. There is plenty about 5e that I consider bad design and would like to see changed. But those changes require a careful, deliberate hand deeply familiar with the system because of how interconnected certain aspects of that system are with others. You can't just give players a bunch of free power and then let them fight encounters that wouldn't even be considered hard under the 5e ruleset.
I wanted to try something new and I had not yet played Pathfinder, so I picked up Kingmaker with all it's DLC while on sale and gave it a shot. I began with Normal mode but did limited saves and started out. HOLY CRAP, this game made me think and work way more in actual tactical combat than BG3, that is for sure. Further this is not the hardest mode.
I have been defending BG3's difficulty but now I have to say, okay I see it.
Just you wait when you finish Kingmaker and decide to replay it on higher difficulty... I did that, first finished it on normal, then on hard and then twice on unfair (one time was these super optimized builds and another time with my own creative build approach and I gotta say - the 'own creative' build approach was waaaaaay harder than the super optimized builds you can find on youtube or on reddit/Owlcat forums).
And then when you decide to play WotR you'll be amazed by the replayability value of that game which comes from the mythic paths that entirely change not only your abilities but also the story, also, a tip: if you ever play WotR, do yourself a favor and play the Aeon MP as the last... let's just say that one has the most depressing story of them all.
Originally Posted by ZOZO1006
Well they sold me the new difficulty. I already died twice. Considering that previously I finished the game without die. And kind of w/o rest. I was trying to use the same strategy what I did BEFORE. BUT IT DON'T WORKS It's almost feels like they watched my video series. All previous positioning that could avoid being hitted are changed. There are surprises. And I am amazed what is counting as boss.
As a casual daddy I am dieing. So I like it. Why because it will let me to play with friends because it's harder baby.
The only thing that is bothering me that I cannot have this difficulty increase in the custom mode.
Hmm, I tried it too and haven't died yet, so far I barely noticed the differences between it and regular tactician, aside from having only 1 save (and basically the only fails I have had were mostly dialogue ones, luckily I managed to get some inspiration points to try to redeem the situation). Basically, aboard nautiloid I had to use command drop twice on that commander (and picked up the sword), put 4 of those purple tanks around him, blew him and the mind flayer up, kept Us alive (which will come in handy much later on).
Recruited SH (had her with me on nautiloid), Astarion, Gale and LZ. Went to the grove, defended everyone (got insp point from LZ), rested, went in - luckily passed some checks between Zevlor and Aradin, sold shit, went back to the ruins to get Withers (cause I wanted to respec all companions basically, the stats they start with are beyond bad). So my MC (who's a light domain cleric and going to remain a pure cleric the entire game, 'good' Durge yet again, yes I have a problem, I think custom Tav would've been better for the background skillchecks but then again Durge has that cool cloak), respecced Astarion into bard from the get go, SH's a monk now and Gale's still a wizard, but has better stat spread this time around, LZ's still a fighter but again, better stat spread, murdered the harpies on the beach (turds downed Gale twice! but no biggie cause I am a cleric). Then, I spoke with Alfira (poor woman has no idea what is going to happen to her), saved Arabella from Kagha (now that ate 2 insp points goddammit), then I poked around, got Kagha's "secret correspondence with Odolan", spoke with Zevlor, told him to try to delay Kagha if he can, bardAstarion has access to feather fall (cause I know it will be useful on several occasions), used it to recruit Karlach first (cause I wanted to see that special cutscene where Wyll tries to ambush us - talked him down ofc, didn't even need to use insp point) and that's pretty as far as I've gotten (took Wyll and Karlach with me to several tieflings to get their approval up). Honestly, I would've gotten further, maybe even to the gobbo village if it wasn't for the damn migraine I had the whole of yesterday.
But so far it's not that difficult? At least to me, but I have a plan to abuse a few of those pretty damn strong items you get early, like the luminous armor (for my cleric, light domain and esp with radiant spirit guardians = gameover, Orin duel will be hilarious - getting constantly debuffed), SH's going to be a TB monk (like in that vid you posted, actually I had planned to turn her into TB monk for a while now, open hand monk is beyond broken early game lol, my idea is 9lvl monk, 3 lvl thief for them tasty bonus actions).
Now another decision is ahead of me: to use tadpoles or not. I mean, tadpoles DO make the game a ton easier (and denying the astral one should be easy, as a main cleric) but then again, do I really need them? Perilous stakes could also come in handy at some bosses, but eh, I dunno. Cause I could make the honor mode intentionally harder for myself by not absorbing them.
Gobin Fortress - here the goblins would have a good numbers advantage for challenge. But somehow a huge fight in Gut's or Dror Ragzlin's hall doesn't even alert the closest goblins behind a corner. You can basically march in and clear one room at a time, and teleport out to Long Rest whenever. It's so easy that it really doesn't encourage infiltrating the place as a True Soul or using a Drow disguise, which could otherwise be really exciting knowing the entire fort will aggro if you fail some check.
Disable Fast Travel and make Goblins more alert to fighting. Reinforcements swarming in from behind to surround the party should be the flavor here.
Phase Spider Lair - just double or triple the numbers of Ettercaps and Phase Spiders. Remove the spiders' spit ability and make them attack in melee where they can actually hurt you. Add roaming enemy groups that eventually find you even if you don't move and join in when battle starts anywhere. So the party eventually gets surrounded unless they're careful. Disable Fast Travel.
The Underdark - So safe and boring! Disable Fast Travel and add roaming monsters that can appear anytime anywhere. Make the player scared to leave the safety of the Myconid Village or the Selunite Fortress.
Speaking of the Underdark, what happened to dark areas? Low light doesn't seem to be an issue anywhere anymore. Humans and Gith can see perfectly in the "darkest" areas and you never need torches or light to counter a low light Disadvantage. Not only a huge atmosphere fail, but also another thing that makes the game a lot easier.
I wanted to try something new and I had not yet played Pathfinder, so I picked up Kingmaker with all it's DLC while on sale and gave it a shot. I began with Normal mode but did limited saves and started out. HOLY CRAP, this game made me think and work way more in actual tactical combat than BG3, that is for sure. Further this is not the hardest mode.
I have been defending BG3's difficulty but now I have to say, okay I see it.
I'm currently replaying WoTR (custom Core) with its 6 difficulty levels (plus custom) and non dumbed down ruleset. Add to that the six person party, a dozen or so companions, more classes and subclasses than you can shake a stick at, choice of TB or RTwP (I prefer the latter even though it makes the game more difficult), loot that is useful rather than gimmicky or ridiculously situational, etc, etc, and you have a far better game than BG3 will ever be - Definitive Edition or no.
Downsides for me are the Crusade part of the game (and the Kingdom building in Kingmaker) and the fact that I don't really like anything to do with demons and devils (or any Abrahamic nonsense).
Edit: And for the two Acts of BG3 that I played before I lost interest I used mods which gave it 5e and RAW rules precisely because of the idiotic things such as throwing potions listed above.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/ZMnssMW/111.png)
