Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Oh this actually got a brief fit of laughter out of me. Taking it on full belief that they don't know (for real or for NDA reasons) anything, let's hope that Sam is not a prophet! Otherwise, well, can't wait to see how exactly we'll be monkey paw'ed on this one.

Also yeah, I get why people ask VAs all these questions (they are much more approachable that developers because of nature of their work, and they are associated with the characters directly), but they are reeeeally not the people for all that feedback.

Except for the "You did an amazing job and now I'm crying because of a character you so beautifully played" type of feedback, of course.

Thanks again for the summary, btw!

Gotcha, thanks! It's sort of weird in a way that... I can see some other characters having their reasons to volunteer besides the "I'm dying anyway" that Karlach has going? Like, I do think Lae'zel would sacrifice herself in Orpheus's place if asked, for the Prince of the Comet and what not. Then there's also Wyll, one of who's major character flaws is never putting himself first, for the good of the people. (Not that I want anyone to turn, but y'know, theoretically).

I know that Gale can offer to blow up in that scene, which is different, but character-situation-appropriate.

Id say remain positive on the whole idea of a fixed engine guys,
Weve alrdy had pages of ppl atguing about her *not meant to be fixed* in this thread and it goes no where. Cause honestly wether you believe that or not it really doesnt matter, atleast in regards to this thread.
We are all just putting our voices togather in regards how much a happy ending for Karlach means to the fanbase.
And how for most of us the current questline and endings for her seem...obviously lacking/ rushed. Combine that with the signs through out the game and data mining that there COULD have been a way to save her , we are for the most part just humbly asking larian to eventually* bring that back into the fold.
As an *option*

And honestly the company seems to be listening looking at the patches and whats been added in based on player feedback requests.

I am in the camp the more content the better. I dont want an epilogue that explains the inconstiency of enriched iron and lack of upper city. In patch 5. Even if it says *karlach manages to be free in the end*
I would much rather give them time enough (a year or so. For a DE) to add in PLAYABLE content that allows us to save her/ or not.
(Shoot for the stars land on the moon and what not.)

For me it's just the most obvious and painfully generic example of cowardly writer's way out to "raise the stakes". You know, when author wants to have a big death on screen but doesn't have guts to actually kill off some major character so either creates such character or gives one of the existing ones terminal illness or other condition that will inevetably kill the character (for example Thane and Mordin is Mass Effect, Itachi in Naruto, Whitebeard and Roger in One Piece and likely Butcher in The Boys). That's why I think Karlach's engine was never supposed to be fixable, especially knowing that she wasn't supposed to be Origin character, that way OG cast would remain intact, while someone could heroically sacrifice themselves anyway

Also as a side tangent , finally got to experience this new kiss animation they gave karlach, and god damn it Larian, that was the sweetest most wholesome moment I have ever experienced in near 20 years of gaming. Ill be smashing that button after every major battle now. Cheers to the dev team and their attention to detail to recreate a moment like that for players to experience

I mean, it's an interesting discussion in some ways I suppose, but I really don't see whether the engine was originally planned to be fixable as all that relevant to the question of if the ending we have works well as an ending.
My problem with the existing ending of Karlach's story was never "I'm mad that this character's good ending was cut." It's that her quest feels incomplete and the ending forced, because there's at least four different options I can think of that at least would have a decent chance of working that you're just not allowed to try, and the result is the only Origin character quest where you have no opportunity to have any useful impact on the outcome.
If people liked it, great, I'm not going to tell you you have bad taste or whatever, but I just don't find the way her ending is handled right now satisfying at all.

And even if you consider Karlach as illithid as a way to save her life, mind flayers have no souls. So she had to give up her soul to avoid going to hell. Ironic, I guess, depending on one's point of view.

Ultimately, Karlach's bad endings remind me of the puppy in Life is Strange 2. A sweet moment turned very sour in the most unnecessary way just to provoke strong feels. I don't know.
I have PTSD and I just can't relate to the people thankful Karlach is just as doomed as many of them feel, but I respect their feelings on the subject.

Maybe it's just the state of the world that is making Karlach's endings harder to deal with. Something akin to hopeless nihilism just seems too on point at the moment.

There are a lot of little, special moments with Karlach. Visiting her parents' grave, running into her old friend. Maybe this metaphor won't work for anyone but myself, but have you ever watched a TV show that introduces a new, fresh character? One who is universally loved, filled with boundless optimism and energy. Just too good to be true? Yeah... and by the end of the episode they're suddenly dead, because ratings season. But didn't you enjoy a good cry? It's almost like Karlach was designed to make you love her, then lose her.

Maybe, given the length and intensity of these conversations, Larian got Karlach spot on. Look how much we all care. Still, there's something to be said for options. If they'd killed off Minsc or Jaheira in BG1, I never would have played BG2. And I admit that the endings, as they stand, make me feel more emotionally manipulated by Karlach's story than anything.

Well, that's what I said, I think this is exactly how she was designed since she isn't part of the OG cast but was made Origin later in the development. Basically a sweet friend you meet along the way, or even companion that "heroically" can sacrifice herself at the end, hence why she's the only one that can do it and why Larian doubled down on her being doomed with all the new dialogues. You know, she's doomed anyway since her engine will kill her or she may go back to hell where she'll also likely die because Zariel can summon army of demons so she might as well bite the bullet and become squid for the greater good

In some interview I saw devs said, that Karlach was changed three times completely during the early access and they really didn't know how to work with her. So I think what we have now is only a "empty" backbone of something what should be much bigger and more complex. They worked and worked until they had to stop due to deadlines, so they gave us what was implemented.

I desperately hope that's true Rae

I think with the king tide of awards BG3 is about to receive, the outcry (positive outcry) for Definitive Edition and expansions will only grow. Here's to hoping.

Or at the very least finally add her to the official game art!

I think if DE is going to happen, she'll probs be on the DE cover. Not that it bothers me much but I do find it a bit weird how she isn't in the cover yet.

Incase anyone else was curious bout bg3s market and finicanal succuss i remember in AUGUST the game was alrdy a massive succuss with a grand tital sales of over 5 million at roughly half a billion in sales.
Was curious at the state now and took some digging but
https://dotesports.com/baldurs-gate/news/baldurs-gate-3-sales-numbers-how-many-copies-has-bg3-sold

If this is accurate in 3 months since they have increased that by god damn 15 million. Thats insane. Also amazing, congratz larian!

I only point this out to consider the profit margin larian has made from this title, (before xbox sales i might add)
I know what alot of us are asking in terms of karlachs story being fleshed out or content being added back in or new content can be seen as *alot of work* which costs money. But id argue with these numbers its almost impossible to think larian wouldnt put some of the excess theyve made back into this project to really flesh out the experience as a whole. Like DE and DLC.

i really hope the massive awards and huge sale will convince larian not to move on from the game too fast. it is concerning that theyre already talking about the next game but then again im not familiar with the industy

I hope so too.
I'm not entirely sure how that is going, but I mean, Swen Vincke already said back in September, after the PS5 release, that he has moved on to the next game and is personally done with BG3.
He did say that there was still a team working on patches and stuff, and we have seen some updates that added some new things (and some datamines that tease new stuff).

In my opinion it just means it's not their main focus anymore, but doesn't mean that nothing gets added. Especially with the callback of the VAs back then, so they are going to add something. Might just be some epilogue related things, might be more. It's anyones guess how much they will do, I still believe in a DE, and I also refuse to give hope just yet. Especially with how popular this game is and how much they've listened to the community so far.

Take all of this with a grain of salt, though. I might be wrong and just desperately clinging to whatever scraps of hope I can find.

In all likelihood, it's probably just a small team moving on to start pre-planning the next project. Probably just writers and artists to start drafting up ideas. IIRC, BG3 entered pre-development just after DOS2 released and that still got a DE release.

I mean, if nothing else, as I recall they have said they're working on epilogues to flesh out the ending so it doesn't feel so abrupt, so there's clearly at least some people working on it. Who knows how much they plan to actually do at this point, though.

I actually loved the ending where Karlach and my durge sorcadin smoked up a cigar before charging into the forces of hell. Shadowheart was my girl in the game but Karlach ending fit my character much more than settling down. I like to think they're battling their way through hell searching for a cure for Karlach so they can return to Baldurs Gate and their loved ones. Leave no man behind.

Just stopping in to tell everyone that even though they swore that they wouldn't, due to popular demand they are releasing are physical disc version of BG3. Between this and all of the other random stuff we've gotten over the last few months, it really does feel like they're committed to fulfilling every last community request they can manage. My hopium only grows by the day.