Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Question from a filthy casual

Greetings! Although I have long appreciated the swords and sorcery genre, this has been my first time dipping into the DnD lore and Larian's treatment of it.

I'll keep it short and say that, despite some nice settings, engaging companions and solid in-world exploration, I've really been taken aback by the tone and major plotlines of BG3. It's like the game cannot decide what it is trying to be. Is this a fantasy epic? Is it science fiction? Is it a silly cartoon? It seems to depend on what you are doing at the time.

Regardless, I pressed on until finishing out Act 2 where I was treated to the visage of
The absurdity of that sight mixed with the solemnity that the narration tried to respond with felt like satire. The dialogue continued on to explain that
I stared in blank befuddlement. It did not help that immediately afterward who proceeded to spout five paragraphs worth of exposition that made just about as much sense.

So, all of that leads to my question: Are the tone and machinations of BG3 natural products of the source material in DnD? Or is this kind of storyline more of a Larian product?

Thanks, and Cheers.

That's all Larian, I'm afraid to say. You are correct - the game does not know what it wants to be, and for Larian's own design part, the concept of immersion in story and space was, at the outset, a fairly alien concept to them, and one they still don't really grasp fully - so they often seem to feel that they can have their serious story line, and their silly 4th-wall breaking antics and ridiculousness, without realising that injecting the latter everywhere actively disrupts and spoils the former. On top of that, their story writing has never been very good to begin with, and they seem to have a philosophy that plot holes, non-sequiturs and disconnected nonsense lacking overall coherency can all be covered up and ignored if you make it bombastic and over-the-top enough, which they earnestly attempt to do.

It's all Larian, although I have to admit that BG3 is the first Larian game I was actually able to finish (kay, that's a lie, I finished Divine Divinity once agees ago), I made multiple attempts at DOS1/2 and nearly finished them but the tone of those games didn't sit well with me. Not to mention the barrelmancy and over the top surface effects (which Larian has reaaaaaaally toned down in BG3, they're still present ofc but nerfed in comparison to DOS2 especially).

And yes, BG3 is the type of game that doesn't know what it wants to be. Especially in act 3 after the event you mentioned. The narrative and story really fall apart after that.

Add to that Larian's loose interpretation of established lore. Eg. mind flayers HAVE souls, there is a mind flayer god called Illsensine for crying out loud, it's never been implied before BG3 in any other D&D material that mind flayers are soulless.


Yep, 100%, very good point. I'd say their writers range from decent to pretty good, but it entirely depends on the character/quest. There's very visible discrepancy in the quality of the stories told, for some they accounted for the most bizarre of outcomes, and for others there is only 1 or 2 ways to finish a certain character story arc or a quest at best .

I have to say, back in the begging of BG3's EA, I was bamboozled at first thinking that the game would turn out to be more akin to NWN2's expansion Mask of the Betrayer (NWN2 itself being meh at best, but MotB being 10/10 would replay over and over again), that it would spin a more personal story of a struggle of getting the damn worm out of your skull or succumbing to it's power. Y'know, slowly uncovering what is preventing the ceremorphosis and what to do with the gathered information, and it somewhat holds true in act 1 and 2 despite the massive rewrites (and yes the quality of those rewrites is... eh, not so good).

The three posts on here just perfectly sum up why I never felt like going for a 2nd playthrough, I mostly felt like the quality of the writing wasn't what I had expected (maybe because of several rewritings). I remember playing EA within the first month and I felt sad that it's still years until full release. EA offered so much in a still limited space, maybe that got my expectations too high for the full release to be successful.

That being said, it still can't be an excuse for the growing feeling of "Wait, this doesn't make sense?" over the course of the game. The more you give thought to the story, the more it falls apart. To be fair, I really had no clue about the Forgotten Realms or D&D before, but at least BG3 made me read into the lore - and lot of stuff I read there was like "I feel like this is different to what BG3 showed me".

It's Larian brand of writing.

Is it good? Is it bad? depends on you individually, but I am sure, 2-4 people will agree with you.

RPG and Writing usually at the opposite side of the game spectrum. If you want a good written cRPG, you lose aspect of RPG (i.e. Disco Elysium/PST), if you want total cRPG mimicking TTRPG rules and "freedom", you usually get abysmal writing (Solasta).

Or you can try to satisfy most people and risking to disappointed some, which is what Larian does, their writing is not at the level of Planescape Torment, but it sure as hell is better RPG than Planescape Torment (utilization of rules and stats against dialogue/things you do within the game).


For me personally, I think it's not "bad writing", Solasta has bad writing, Black Geyser has bad writing, BG3 is like "wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle" kind of writing, it almost like the dialogue story is only a vehicle for your RPG stats, it's on the menu but not the main course.

But then again if I want to play games with stellar writing I'd play Disco Elysium or PST anyway not cRPG.

While I do like the game a lot, I agree, that the tone sometimes is all over the place and there is a a lot of homebrew.
I would love, if they would fix up the story a bit, but that doesn't sadly seem to be a priority among the playerbase, given the requests for more romance scenes, being able to hug companions and stuff.

It really shows, doesn't it? All those separate parts don't make a whole.

I've been very involved with some of the companion stories and side quests but had to actively ignore the main story the more it progressed.

Larian wrote the story but it's based very much in lore. The thing you mention but also the Mindflayers and Mindflayer ships have a sci-fi type of feel but I will give you one word: Spelljammer. It's basically a campaign in space and an official campaign of D&D. All of these things have been around since 2nd edition AD&D which came out in 1989 btw.




So I would say it's a mix. Larian wrote the story as is but it does so based in the lore of D&D. Whether or not you like the story is up to the individual. It has some satirical elements for sure but whether you see it as a game that cannot decide what it's trying to be or as a game that has everything in it...well, that's up to you. After having played games like Sacred and Guild Wars, I've gotten used to Fantasy mixed with Sci-Fi. But far be it from me to try to convince you to like what you don't care for. I've given you some explanations that might help a bit.

Personally, I've put over 400 hours into it and I'm not bored with it yet. I don't think it's about the main story line though. It's more about the world building and companion story lines. I just like being in the game. Do mind, I didn't expect to still be playing it after so many hours but there it is. Then again, I've been playing tabletop D&D since 1989 and as such I understand that having a really great story is amazing but it doesn't have to be to enjoy a campaign. Sometimes tropes are good enough

Perhaps because my first exposure to D&D was the original Baldur’s Gate game, which is full of mock heroism, jokes, silliness and fourth-wall-breaking references, alongside a serious main story of godly ambition and treachery, yes for me this is what D&D is, or at least can be. And I agree that some bits of it are inherently silly, including Elder Brains (which are D&D creatures). Treating them with a level of mock seriousness is perhaps the only tone that would really work for me. As you can see from the responses above D&D can be different at different times and for different people, and I’m sure I have a different perspective as someone who only encounters it through video games and the odd comic from those who are more immersed and play TT as well. But for this particular casual, I think D&D is at its best, and most distinctive and interesting, when it does mix up tones and goes big, and so I’m glad Larian have played up those elements. Though illithids and Elder Brains do stretch it, even for me!

Though I’ll admit that personally I liked the idea of quasi-deities (I don’t think they are literal gods at this stage in the lore) working through their Chosen to regain influence and power. As I understand it, gods in the Forgotten Realms at this time in the lore are discouraged from intervening more directly.

About DnD groups: Yeah, they kinda are a mixture of jokes, heroism, siliness and kindness often. Our group can heroically save a village from undead and then our Firbolg barbarian complains, that her fur got wet and is curly again and my little gnome artifcer goes looking for a tavern to get a sparkly drink with a paper umbrella in it, while our edgy rogue tries and fails miserably in sitting in the corner and brood. All part of the package.
In a lot of instances, I thought, that the game really nailed the tone of your average DnD party. And I also agree, that the first two games had a similar tone, switching between dead serious and utterly silly.

I would like a bit more polish in the last act and making the mindflayer lore a bit clearer. The end is a bit all over the place, with too much handwaving.

D&D is really a framework, but it does pull from all speculative fiction genres at some point, even science fiction. But, because it's a roleplay framework, experiences vary greatly depending on who is playing. In pen-and-paper versions, when a new group gathers, a common discussion is to talk about which of the thousands of rules to discard and which we absolutely think are vital. (You end up keeping most of them, or it's really just a very fun table read).

Dungeons and Dragons Online, for instance, is filled to the brim with illithids, and you'll run into some of the same canonical characters there as you do in Baldur's Gate 3, but the tone is much different.

One of the fun things about D&D is how you can sort of Terry Pratchett-ize fantasy to turn it into a semblance of technology. Like, for example, . And the strange mixture of gravitas and extreme silliness inherent in fighting to the death . I guess there are two types of continuities: one that makes it work, and one that makes it make sense. If the story pieces fit together a bit better and Act 3 wasn't being all Act 3-y with us at the moment, the shift between serious and silly might be less jarring.

It would be difficult for Larian to take the time and explain the history of mind flayers or the roles the deities play in the D&D universe without tons of tedious exposition, but they could have done a little better job.
So BG3 is both very like and unlike D&D at the same time.

Huh, I took the elder brain and the mind flayers as a variation of the Borg Queen / Borg drones trope. Perfectly fine and not at all silly. Even other forces trying to take advantage of that power makes sense. It's more how the story was told that bothers me, taking away any agency from the player (perfectly represented by the Emperor) and providing no closure. It seems rushed and uncomplete (Orpheus for example) compared to many side quests/ stories. I've got the impression they ran out of time to tell the main story properly.

Thanks, all, for the thoughtful comments and insight; it helps. I am coming to understand that this particular world is more bizarre than I anticipated – even by fantasy genre standards - and I will need to continue to work to get my footing.

That seems go along with the experience I’ve had in BG3 so far: between the fight mechanics and plot/lore, trying to get grasp on this particular world has been difficult -- particularly for a newbie who just wandered in looking for some RPG escapism.

Having said that, as frustrating as some aspects have been it seems like there are still some nice moments to be had, so I’ll likely keep at it.

Cheers.

I think the idea of an enslaving empire that shaped the evolution and culture of various slave races, whose culture even now is affected by their past, and the threat of the Grand Design, are all pretty cool. But I get stuck when I’m presented with huge, otherwise disembodied brains. Or, even worse, brains on legs. I just can’t take that seriously. Though as mentioned, I’m also perfectly okay with not taking everything in D&D/BG3 seriously

Right. Hehe

I guess I've come to terms with extra legs on things after so many Discworld novels, but I totally get the inability to take it seriously (and how that might not be all that important to do).

For me, the thing that kind of breaks set is the little sounds and animations when someone misses on an attack. The game is all tactics, blood, gravitas, and finely sculpted penises... and then "Nyah HAH!" Somehow, it reminds me of Snidely Whiplash and his dog from Wacky Races. It's just so far removed from what I would consider a likely response to barely dodging a lethal attack. Then again, I'm likelier to injure myself tripping over my own feet than in ever sustaining a wound from combat, so what the heck do I know?

Yeah, I can understand finding a tone that bounces back and forth between very serious and quite silly jarring, but for better or worse that's how the BG series has always been- this is a series where, in previous games, stories about the children of the dead god of murder co-exist with a side quest about collecting fancy pantaloons and jokes about miniature giant space hamsters.
It's also, as others have said, a very accurate representation of the way every tabletop D&D game I've been part of is- we have a serious story with important goals, but also the half-orc barbarian keeps trying to seduce the dragon he's fallen in love with by bringing her hacked-off parts of monsters he's killed as presents.