Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Her whole character is that of someone who has been sold to devils and forced to be a slave soldier then fought to escape and get her freedom. id argue if anyone was meant to have a doomed story it would be wyl given he willingly sold his soul to a devil to save the city where as karlach was sold like a slave to them. Wyls whole story is built around self sacrifice and putting the good of others above himself so imo him having a happy ending is more out of character than karlach whose only real mistake was trusting gortash when she was like what 17? 18?

#JusticeForKarlach

Her whole character is that of someone who has been sold to devils and forced to be a slave soldier then fought to escape and get her freedom. id argue if anyone was meant to have a doomed story it would be wyl given he willingly sold his soul to a devil to save the city where as karlach was sold like a slave to them. Wyls whole story is built around self sacrifice and putting the good of others above himself so imo him having a happy ending is more out of character than karlach whose only real mistake was trusting gortash when she was like what 17? 18?

#JusticeForKarlach

Because it's just too out of place for her to be the only one that can be turned. She was not origin for a long time, which is why I think she was planned to be "dedicated mindflayer" because the fix was never planned and cuts had nothing to do with that. For example, Astarion's content was moved from upper to lower city, why couldn't they do the same for Karlach? She barely has any content in two previous acts, if something that would affect her story was planned for upper city, it wouldn't be much and moving it would be far easier than Astarion's. That's why I think if anything is to be changed, they'll have to rewrite her. Because they didn't plan her to fixable, now the question is whether or not they'll listen

Correct me if im wrong but her character went through so many changes through the EA that saying she was never planned to be saved really doesnt make sense when there were versions where she was saved in EA. That content was in the upper city but since she was a late addition and didnt have alot of content in the beginning they focused on asterion who has alot more content in the game. Given their tight schedule that seems likely and giving her a fixable option seems to be something that was planned but time ran out during the lead up to the release date so they gave us what they had. Last i checked gale could also become a mindflayer as well as tav. Karlach isnt the only one shes just the only one where its the best option given her other options are death.

The fix was never planned*... my guy, act 3 is loaded with enriched infernal iron. Which has zero use outside karlachs quest. We can speculate and disagree on when she was added or her story arc and changes etc etc but i will die on the hill that she was definately *intended* to have a fixed engine ending but due to time restraints it didnt happen.

And no astarions quest wasnt *moved* to lower city. There was an entry way to get to cazadors place in lower city yes. But the area is completely seperate to the city its self so it was alrdy done and rdy to go by game release. Where as uppercity (karlachs most likely spot fir a fix) didnt make it into the final product for release.

I don't think she was planned as "dedicated mindflayer". Last I checked, you have more options than her. Last I checked, you also weren't forced to bring specific characters to the final battle, which makes that whole option just that: an option.
You can not simply take one option, that you are not even forced to take, and that is entirely depending on your own choices and your party composition, and then draw the conclusion that that was the whole purpose of said character. That is not how it works.
You can take so many different paths with your companions throughout the game, make so many important decisions about the direction you want to take their story, but somehow this one tiny little alternative being presented to you makes you all hellbent on this being the true purpose of a character and the only possible and intented conclusion to her whole arc.

As for the whole rest, Norrec already explained the flaws in that argument.

Yeah. However we got here, Karlach is a great character that gets shafted by the story.

I could handle Wyll being doomed beyond any possibility to save- "You literally sold your soul to a devil, ya dingus" makes much, much more sense as an unavoidable doom to me. There's some logic for why solving that problem might just not be possible. (not suggesting they change the game to make him screwed to be clear, just saying it would make more sense for someone who voluntarily sold their soul to be unavoidably doomed than "No, you can't have any of the skilled artificers that owe you their lives fix this infernal artifact, or replace it, or use powerful healing magic, or call on one of your half-dozen extremely powerful allies for help, or try to deal with the devil that's been trying to cut deals with you for three acts now, or....)

I don't want to get my hopes up too much without more idea what is/isn't planned- if there's going to be a DE, for example, there's been no official word, even though they'd already have to be working on it. But I would hope for, at a minimum, some expansion of the Avernus ending, since if it was meant to be hopeful or positive, it totally missed the mark there for me- and from the sound of it, a lot of other people.
What I'd *like* to see is a full DE that makes some substantial revisions to act 3 and especially the ending, because Karlach's ending is far from the only part of the ending that's really weak, just the part that stings me the most. (there's a reason a lot of people are unhappy with how Astarion's story can end, as one example)

We'll see what gets made in time, I suppose.

Unless the avernus ending is heavily expanded upon I can't see it being anything more than the last mission of reach. That being a horde of enemies and the only objective being survive till you die which while cool isn't a happy ending in any sense other than atleast karlach won't be enslaved by zariel again and experimented on further. Personally i see way to much desire and drive to get her a happier ending for larian to just shaft so much of the community. Especially since this is their most popular game and listening to the community now would really help their next release.

Preach!

I'm sure this was already mentioned, but I just joined the forum so I don't have time to seep through all 122 pages of it and just wanted to publish my thoughts, lol.
If Larian did this plus expanded on the epilogue to show more of what happened to companions and primary NPCs as well as the lands we went through in Faerun (especially around Moonrise Tower regarding the shadow curse and all that) after some time has passed following the final battle, then I'd probably rank BG3 as my game of the decade.

Precisely! Such a missed opportunity.

Fair points, and welcome!

In terms of epilogues and a Tavern scene, i cant remember where if it was mentioned by the fanbase or sam her self talking about Karlach potentially running her own tavern?

Wouldnt be amazing if (after all patches potential dlc etc etc are done) if we did get a tavern scene ending with karlachs Tavern being the location? I know it would probably be elfsong. But a guy can dream.

If larians reading this my vote for the name is *The Hellions Hearth*

That would be a really nice ending and a great name.

#JusticeForKarlach

That was Sam just answering the question of what she thinks Karlach's perfect ending would be. "It'd be kinda boring, but maybe that's what people want right now" (c) (yes)

Don't think that's something we can even remotely expect in canon-canon - that's just one person throwing out an idea after all, and as we know they don't have influence there - but boy did I adopt that into my personal headcanon immediately

That'd be awsome to see it'd be such a nice ending to see the rest of group drinking in her bar. Maybe like a true/good ending for each companion, but It'll never happen but its nice to dream.

#JusticeForKarlach

The thing is that the rumours about "good ending" for Karlach or avernus as explorable area being cut were fake. Yeah, some content was cut from her, but it might as well be Gondians and Steel Watch explaining why they can't fix her (which is why it wasn't moved, but Astarion's content was - while it would expand upon her arc, it wouldn't change it and Larian was already short on time, which is also why she's the only one with the mindflayer option). I'm not saying her story won't be changed, but the fix very likely wasn't planned, at least not from the begining

Sure but that just means there's more to add to the game if larian was on a crunch to finish the game. Also she isn't the only mindflayer option? Also with the game being so wildly popular it would only make sense for larian to try and make as much of their new fan base as happy as possible to further promote their next release. It only makes sense for karlach to get a happy ending given how wildly varied the games endings already are especially when you factor in dark urge. And yes I'm on industrial grade hopium right now.


#JusticeForKarlach

I meant the only companion that has the option to turn into the mindflayer. Normally it's the MC or Orpheus but she's special in this case. Plus the whole scene after fighting Gortash makes sense for her current character and very little if the ending was to be changed. Will they change it? Maybe, or maybe not, it's not up to us considering they are already focusing on the next project. Also, basically everyone are happy with BG3, I don't think they have to worry about keeping the fanbase happy

My guy you are just straight up ignoring the points the rest of us are providing at this point.

Ill just pick *one* to reiterate. But astarions content was NOT moved. Cazadors place is a seperate location then the lower city. There is s lower city enterence* but the content* was finished. And didnt require uppercity. All uppercity wouldve done. Is given him a different door to enter in.
Aswell as some good added visual stuff