Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

I don't think she was planned as "dedicated mindflayer". Last I checked, you have more options than her. Last I checked, you also weren't forced to bring specific characters to the final battle, which makes that whole option just that: an option.
You can not simply take one option, that you are not even forced to take, and that is entirely depending on your own choices and your party composition, and then draw the conclusion that that was the whole purpose of said character. That is not how it works.
You can take so many different paths with your companions throughout the game, make so many important decisions about the direction you want to take their story, but somehow this one tiny little alternative being presented to you makes you all hellbent on this being the true purpose of a character and the only possible and intented conclusion to her whole arc.

As for the whole rest, Norrec already explained the flaws in that argument.

Yeah. However we got here, Karlach is a great character that gets shafted by the story.

I could handle Wyll being doomed beyond any possibility to save- "You literally sold your soul to a devil, ya dingus" makes much, much more sense as an unavoidable doom to me. There's some logic for why solving that problem might just not be possible. (not suggesting they change the game to make him screwed to be clear, just saying it would make more sense for someone who voluntarily sold their soul to be unavoidably doomed than "No, you can't have any of the skilled artificers that owe you their lives fix this infernal artifact, or replace it, or use powerful healing magic, or call on one of your half-dozen extremely powerful allies for help, or try to deal with the devil that's been trying to cut deals with you for three acts now, or....)

I don't want to get my hopes up too much without more idea what is/isn't planned- if there's going to be a DE, for example, there's been no official word, even though they'd already have to be working on it. But I would hope for, at a minimum, some expansion of the Avernus ending, since if it was meant to be hopeful or positive, it totally missed the mark there for me- and from the sound of it, a lot of other people.
What I'd *like* to see is a full DE that makes some substantial revisions to act 3 and especially the ending, because Karlach's ending is far from the only part of the ending that's really weak, just the part that stings me the most. (there's a reason a lot of people are unhappy with how Astarion's story can end, as one example)

We'll see what gets made in time, I suppose.

Unless the avernus ending is heavily expanded upon I can't see it being anything more than the last mission of reach. That being a horde of enemies and the only objective being survive till you die which while cool isn't a happy ending in any sense other than atleast karlach won't be enslaved by zariel again and experimented on further. Personally i see way to much desire and drive to get her a happier ending for larian to just shaft so much of the community. Especially since this is their most popular game and listening to the community now would really help their next release.

Preach!

I'm sure this was already mentioned, but I just joined the forum so I don't have time to seep through all 122 pages of it and just wanted to publish my thoughts, lol.
If Larian did this plus expanded on the epilogue to show more of what happened to companions and primary NPCs as well as the lands we went through in Faerun (especially around Moonrise Tower regarding the shadow curse and all that) after some time has passed following the final battle, then I'd probably rank BG3 as my game of the decade.

Precisely! Such a missed opportunity.

Fair points, and welcome!

In terms of epilogues and a Tavern scene, i cant remember where if it was mentioned by the fanbase or sam her self talking about Karlach potentially running her own tavern?

Wouldnt be amazing if (after all patches potential dlc etc etc are done) if we did get a tavern scene ending with karlachs Tavern being the location? I know it would probably be elfsong. But a guy can dream.

If larians reading this my vote for the name is *The Hellions Hearth*

That would be a really nice ending and a great name.

#JusticeForKarlach

That was Sam just answering the question of what she thinks Karlach's perfect ending would be. "It'd be kinda boring, but maybe that's what people want right now" (c) (yes)

Don't think that's something we can even remotely expect in canon-canon - that's just one person throwing out an idea after all, and as we know they don't have influence there - but boy did I adopt that into my personal headcanon immediately

That'd be awsome to see it'd be such a nice ending to see the rest of group drinking in her bar. Maybe like a true/good ending for each companion, but It'll never happen but its nice to dream.

#JusticeForKarlach

The thing is that the rumours about "good ending" for Karlach or avernus as explorable area being cut were fake. Yeah, some content was cut from her, but it might as well be Gondians and Steel Watch explaining why they can't fix her (which is why it wasn't moved, but Astarion's content was - while it would expand upon her arc, it wouldn't change it and Larian was already short on time, which is also why she's the only one with the mindflayer option). I'm not saying her story won't be changed, but the fix very likely wasn't planned, at least not from the begining

Sure but that just means there's more to add to the game if larian was on a crunch to finish the game. Also she isn't the only mindflayer option? Also with the game being so wildly popular it would only make sense for larian to try and make as much of their new fan base as happy as possible to further promote their next release. It only makes sense for karlach to get a happy ending given how wildly varied the games endings already are especially when you factor in dark urge. And yes I'm on industrial grade hopium right now.


#JusticeForKarlach

I meant the only companion that has the option to turn into the mindflayer. Normally it's the MC or Orpheus but she's special in this case. Plus the whole scene after fighting Gortash makes sense for her current character and very little if the ending was to be changed. Will they change it? Maybe, or maybe not, it's not up to us considering they are already focusing on the next project. Also, basically everyone are happy with BG3, I don't think they have to worry about keeping the fanbase happy

My guy you are just straight up ignoring the points the rest of us are providing at this point.

Ill just pick *one* to reiterate. But astarions content was NOT moved. Cazadors place is a seperate location then the lower city. There is s lower city enterence* but the content* was finished. And didnt require uppercity. All uppercity wouldve done. Is given him a different door to enter in.
Aswell as some good added visual stuff

I don't mean to police what anyone does or doesn't talk about, but respectfully, I don't think anyone is going to change anyone else's mind about this at this point, people are just re-stating the same opinions over and over.

All I will say is that if there never was a fix intended, then some of the stuff in act 3 is one of the handful of things in the game that's just genuinely bad writing (or maybe some stuff being cut that really should not have been).
If you truly don't intend for the engine to have a fix, and that was the plan from the beginning, then having a character pretty much tell you "yeah, I invented that thing, and since then I developed a new version that doesn't have the problem that's killing you" and giving the player no option to try and make use of this seemingly incredibly important information is just baffling. If there was never an explanation why the new and improved engines and the knowledge of how to make them can't help Karlach, that's just dumb- I'm guessing I can't be the only one that used saves to go through that conversation like 5 times because it seemed crazy that there's not even an option to bring up that this really seems like a solution to Karlach's engine problem (or at least a big step towards one). If there was an explanation and it got cut- why in the name of sanity would you cut that? It's critical information for explaining why the story goes where it does!

The result is my character comes across as either pretty dim for not realizing the importance of what they're hearing, or shockingly uncaring about trying to help their close friend.

Not only that, we had Karlach say she wants to live, our character literally giving her hope that they won't give up on her, Wyll telling my character that there has to be some hope - there always is.... only to not do anything in the end? We didn't even try. It's either death by illithid, death or prison. Such hope.

I actually didn't like how everyone, except Wyll, gave up on trying to find ways to save her and accepted her 'inevitable' end. I love the game but moments like this sour the experience a bit for me.

Right? When romancing her at the start of act 3 and she looks you dead in the eye and says *im not going anywhere* my heart just luches now. And not in a good way

And now I’ve adopted it into mine. To the Hellion’s Hearth!

My bet is the lack of time, the explanation doesn't change her story, only enhances it, so moving it from the upper city is not "priority" when you're already short of time and need to release the game asap. As for people around telling something must be possible, well, that's the thing about stories like that. There is always hope until the very end (cyberpunk for example) until it isn't, otherwise the story wouldn't make sense. For example, would the scene after the fight with Gortash be so impactful if five minutes later someone would come up with the fix? Whether or not it's a bad writing is up to debate, but that's not the place for that. My question about the guy that designed the engine and has better version of it, does it really mean anything? Her engine would have to be replaced, but pulling the old one out of her would kill her, wouldn't it? That's why steel watcher says fixing her engine is not worth it and she should go to have it scrapped immediately