Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Well, one, "We can fix the engine but we can't install it here so that's why you need to go back to Avernus WITH a fix in hand just to find a way to implement it in the place where they already did it once" is miles more hopeful than "We can't fix the engine, you have no plan or cure, you're going to Avernus in a desperate attempt to live more and it all hinges on a baseless hope that we'll maybe find something". What we have now is the latter, what I was talking about is the former, and they're very different tonally.

(To be clear here, I am not talking about a playable post-game DLC even, I'm talking about the same open epilogue we have now just holding way more weight and reason.)

Secondly, "This likely was a part of the quest but they ran out of time and dropped it to prioritize other things" may be an explanation, but hardly an excuse. Especially in light of the wild difference in content amount between certain characters. If there was such a lack of time (which yes does happen in development, yes, and devs shouldn't have to crunch), maybe Astarion could use one or two scenes less in favor of characters like Karlach or Wyll?

This is not a dig at Astarion btw, he's just the most glaring example of what all origin characters ideally should've had. And if there wasn't time to give them all this treatment, then it's not entirely unreasonable of us as players to complain that the attention got split unevenly and resulted in what feels like quest holes. Because let's be honest, if something was indeed planned but dropped (especially if it's just Gondians telling us "no", which would be like two voicelines), then it was obviously something important - otherwise we wouldn't have so many people convinced they missed a part of the quest or messed it up.

Whatever it was (if it was anything at all, of course, but we all agree that the present Act 3 hints are suspicious), it's absence is kinda glaring in the pacing/reasoning, which is why we're politely hoping that something could be added/restored eventually.

(p.s. Honestly if it was just Gondians/Ironhands telling us to scram I'd say that would be patched in by now)

I'm not saying it's and excuse, rather explanation of what happened. For me it's ridiculous that the game that doesn't even have epilogues is considered GOTY, yet alone things like upper city and characters lacking content (out of all companions that got screwed out of content Karlach doesn't even have it worst btw). As for the Gondians telling us why they can't fix her being restored as few voicelines, maybe it's somehow tied to the upper city and moving it is too much work? Same thing could be said about the fake rumour that Dammon was supposed to find the fix, he's already in there in act 3, if he there was any cure done by him, adding it to already existing and coded npc wouldn't be a problem

If by not having it the worst you mean cut content then maybe but that's likely due to the fact that karlach was a late addition to the line up. As for the gondians having no option with them just makes me feel like shit seeing the best blacksmiths around and not asking them about this hell cancer in her chest. Damon doesn't have to be the one to find a fix it was just an idea it would make more sense if he didn't have one since the engine in karlachs chest is likely using some kind of devil magic or some shit. Also saying karlach doesnt have it the worst in terms of cut content doesn't mean alot when she still has the worst ending of either lose your soul, die now, or die tomorrow. Her whole story is so pointlessly depressing it just makes me feel like they dropped a grim dark character into this fantasy setting instead of actually making a fantasy character that meshes with the world. The glaring plot holes around her story are so huge for such an otherwise great game it's infuriating.

I wouldn't go as far as to call it plot hole since her condition being unfixable can easily be explained with few dialogues that will likely be added, especially if the DE turned out to be possible but yeah, I meant content. Minthara for example doesn't even have relationship dialogues and you can't even break up with her without cheating on her to trigger the interaction

Oh Halsin and Minthara definitely got the short stick, but at the very least they are not Origin characters (which doesn't make it suck less for their fans). Although the missing dialogue triggers in Minthara's case are really bad. The parsed dialogues indicate parts of her line will likely be reworked (see the new not-yet-implemented dialogue of recruiting her with Halsin in your party, which will definitely be a change), sure hope everything else about her gets fixed and poilshed as well. Although I'll have to say, even with the broken triggers she feels much more fitting in the Act 3 storyline and in the group overall - by the virtue of also being tadpoled and having a personal connection to a boss (Orin), unlike Halsin, who... could really use some more content there yeah.

But in my opinion they more so should be compared to Jaheira and Minsc in terms of. Not being a part of the main six.

Now as far as the tadpoled gang goes, the only character who has it worse than Karlach in terms of content amount is Wyll. It doesn't always feel that way because his dad's importance and also prominent cutscenes with Mizora make it feel like he has more than Karlach's fetch quest, but also the lack of agency (why can't we even ask his opinion half the time?) and being overshadowed by the Emperor in what's supposed to be his personal quest are kinda. Unfortunate. To say the least.

TLDR is that I that I think it's natural that the rest of the characters will be held to a different standard than the main six (altho there are problems even so!), and within the origin crew Karlach doesn't have it the worst in terms of content amount, but she's definitely down there.

Dare I include the actual statistic in case you think I'm just being irrational here. The time statistic is based on the sheer amount of all voicelines put together, not on the time their actual quests take, so the scene amount is a more of an indicator there.

Thank you! Why else keep dropping enriched infernal iron if not for the soul purpose of fixing karlach. if that wasnt the intended purpose why would they keep dropping it well into act 3 when you get the final upgrade available for the engine in act 2? it just doesnt make any sense to do that from a gameplay or story perspective unless you intended on trauma baiting players into thinking saving her is possible only to drop her death on you like a ton of bricks.

Yup! Its why after 4 major patches of alot of fixes bugs and added content of playerfeed back im pretty confident she will get her fix eventually*. Cause if she wasnt intended to be fixed. Or at the very least they werent working on her eventual fix. Why would they have left the enriched iron in the game after 4 massive patches.
Now if patch 5 or 6 removes them well then ill have concerns.
But the fact its still in the game. Gives me solid hope for future content

I just opened the game's launcher and saw the aforementioned physical Deluxe Edition in the flesh



Congrats to our girl for finally being put on at least one official cover :DD And to Durge, too.

EDIT: the attached image is being weird - it's the game disk, they put them on the disk x)

Thank you for that, that was very interesting. I honestly didn't realize that Wyll had so much less content than anyone else. It really doesn't feel like it.



The enriched iron might just be kept in either way, whether they give us what we desire or not - simply because there are a few items in the game that have no purpose besites bartering. I agree that it hints strongly at a fix, because unlike the normal infernal iron you can't even craft anything with it, and there is no reason to give us the enriched version instead otherwise. So I think they simply had to cut the fix at the last minute.
I just don't want to believe in Larian actively trying to bait people into false hope with that.

Also if they intended to leave her as it is I feel like they'd have said this is the end of her story we won't be adding anything else. Especially given the large call from the fan base to get her a better ending. If they were going to leave her endings as they were it would only make sense to make it clear.

The enriched iron might just be kept in either way, whether they give us what we desire or not - simply because there are a few items in the game that have no purpose besites bartering. I agree that it hints strongly at a fix, because unlike the normal infernal iron you can't even craft anything with it, and there is no reason to give us the enriched version instead otherwise. So I think they simply had to cut the fix at the last minute.
I just don't want to believe in Larian actively trying to bait people into false hope with that.[/quote]


Nor should you, they really just dont seem to be that kind of company.
Even the ppl saying she wont get a fix because *theyve moved on* or theres no profit in it for them*

Like look at these patches. Content is being added in almost each one. Not just fixes but new dialogues, mocaps etc etc. Like they are still actively improving the game and listening to playerfeedback. And karlachs fix is up there in the requests.

the fact we are still seeing major patches, hot fixes, and the new physical deluxe edition shows that theyre still very much working on the game. The infernal iron points to it being in the plans in my opinion but like you said it was likely cut for time cause why else have enriched infernal iron if its no different than the normal stuff. im hoping theyll announce something around christmas, maybe a DE edition and tease new endings with that maybe.


#JusticeForKarlach

Enriched iron could have had milion uses that were scrapped, plus it could just be something to sell like many other items, this doesn't mean anything. Same thing as belts, there is a slot for them but not a single item to put thereLarian never says anything about what they do, why would they do it now? The game is still bugged so they didn't announce that the support is over, but there is no way they'd go into specifics

You'd have to completely ignore the one story reason for infernal iron being in the game in order to look at enriched infernal iron and say yea that's just a paper weight. It doesnt make any sense to add in something so specific if infernal iron would work just fine in its place unless it was intended to have a different effect. The only effect it could have is as a fix for karlachs engine or as you suggest it's a pointless paper weight. As far as larian not speaking on it that's just wishful thinking tbh. If you want to poke holes in everything that's fine but at the end of the day I don't really care. Karlach needs a better ending than the ones she has now given how needlessly depressing they are.

You'd have to completely ignore the one story reason for infernal iron being in the game in order to look at enriched infernal iron and say yea that's just a paper weight. It doesnt make any sense to add in something so specific if infernal iron would work just fine in its place unless it was intended to have a different effect. The only effect it could have is as a fix for karlachs engine or as you suggest it's a pointless paper weight. As far as larian not speaking on it that's just wishful thinking tbh. If you want to poke holes in everything that's fine but at the end of the day I don't really care. Karlach needs a better ending than the ones she has now given how needlessly depressing they are.

That's not wishful thinking that's fact. Larian never teases or announces anything, unless it's ready to be shipped so there is no way and no reason they'd do exception for Karlach. And since they're still patching the game, there is no reason for them to say they are finished with anything. As for enriched iron, there is like million possibilities it could be used in some quests in the Upper City, no reason to assume it was tied to Karlach's cure that might never been planned in the first place (and likely wasn't, at least not until very very late development)

Guys, I think it's high time we agree to disagree. Some of us will go on believing that the cure was planned but got scrapped for timing/development/maybe even narrative reasons, some of us will go on believing that it was never planned.

I mean, it's clear that we give significance to wildly different things and different Chekhov's guns. Fiction does that to you sometimes.

There is one story purpose for infernal iron the only other thing it can be used for is when dammon crafts some into some nice armor for you. Since enriched infernal iron cant be crafted into anything the only other reason for its existence would lead you to believe that it's for karlach. The only other reason for infernal iron even being in the game is to cool down the engine. If you're going to over look the literal one reason for infernal iron to be in the game then im not gonna bother responding since you aren't trying to look at this from any other perspective than your own.

Yeah to say there is "no reason" to assume seems a bit disingenous. It is worth saying though that Dammon can actually craft some armor pieces for you from the Enriched Infernal Iron.

Theres agree to disagree and then theres this phenomenon of arguing a point of *no your wrong-*
We then give in game reasons-company track record reasons
Basic story telling reasons as to why maybe we are right or atleast hopeful...to then be responded with* NOPE. Your just wrong, let me just repeat what ive been saying while ignoring the points brought up.


Like im sorry but if your only response to enriched infernal iron is *THERE COUKDVE A MILLION POSSIBLE USES FOR IT*
Your just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. Smh

Not YOU you tarrax but you get whst im saying.