Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Olodan is too weak

The shadow druids should be a lot tougher. Give Olodan a couple of extra levels maybe?

I feel like the shadow druids should feel powerful and dangerous. Instead, they're... not memorable.

Obviously, there are threads about the difficulty of the game overall, and I agree, the whole game needs to be harder. But this one fight always stands to me as being way less than it could be. I really want these shadow druids to be a threat. I mean, I want Olodan to be boss level, you know?

Sure.

But the thing to keep in mind, is I believe the goal of the whole thing is to presumably, allow for the shadow druids to perish while the grove survives.

Given how pathetically weak everyone in the grove is... Making Olodan an actual threat will likely mean everyone else in the grove (Including Khaga) would die. Heck, I've had runs where half of them DO die because they're that pathetic.

So there's always going to be that awkwardness. Since if you buff Olodan and then buff everyone else so they don't die to Olodan (Or Khaga because running into Moonbeam is apparently the most fun thing any Druid can think of doing) then the fight with Olodan will become trivial again because you have this squad of Druids backing you up.

It'd probably be better if the confrontation with Khaga and the Shadow Druids happened at the meeting place rather than back in the grove, that way Olodan can be a threat without having to be concerned with Loic, Rath et al joining in. Thus the only power levels that need to be considered are that of the Shadow Druids and Khaga (Khaga would need to be stronger. And stop running into her own Moonbeam... So she has a chance to actually survive a fight, as well as be a threat if you plan to take her out instead of convincing her to turn on Olodan)

The immediate issue that crops up here is the survivability of other NPCs because the true challenge does not lie in the fight itself, but keeping others alive.

On the surface I do like the idea to buff Olodan as a boss-type NPC, especially for lore reasons because the whole Shadow Druids plot is initiated by Moonrise. So her being a low-level boss like Flind could be justified;


The issue however is that the fight is not static, but dynamic based on dialogue while there are friendly NPCs around. So;

• Either the Shadow Druids stand alone by persuading Kagha, which makes the fight trivial since Kagha is a boss all on her own. But in a vast majority of cases the Shadow Druids will insta-kill Loic and the next potential victim usually being Silver if he puts himself in a bad spot.
• Or Kagha joins them along with those rats Loic and Marcoryle, at which point she is an actual boss and any friendly NPC in there has the potential to kick the bucket

In order to buff Olodan others need to be buffed slightly too, at least to the point they can survive being one-shot.

But the issue is then having two bosses in that room, instead of just Kagha if the player fails to persuade her. I can't imagine the mess it would be with two gigachad bosses at once among pitifully squishy NPCs in there.

That's odd, I haven't had any trouble keeping the others alive. I usually take out Kagha also, just for the extra enemy.

fighting a group of goblins or rats was legitimately harder than this fight for reals

Well i Normaly kill then So Fast that i never let any other Druid in the Grove die during the Fight..
(the Battle Itself feels like Feeler for Me.. i just Kill then so i can explore the entire Map without getting Guilty with the Thieflings..haha)

its like Casador Battle i normally take hin down so Fast that i dont enjoy anymore..haha
its like a Feeler Boss in anime.

(fun fact the only two battles i really Felt were Little Bit complicated in this Game was Raph befor they make hin easy and Ansur.. but ansur too if yu get lucky he will jump in the Hole and pluft dead.)

I think this is a larger problem in how scripted and lazy BG3 is in this regard.

It's very stupid of the Shadow Druids to attack at the core of a hostile Grove in the first place. When exposed, why don't they just escape as rats or birds, and then later ambush the party in the woods on their terms?

Larian seem to be opposed to addìng events like this the player can't prepare for and metagame the challenge out of. God forbid the player is inconvenienced in such a way that would actually put some challenge and unexpected elements into the game. And that's exactly what this game needs.Vengeful Shadow Druids ambushing the party at camp at night, or at some random location when the party is not expecting them. Shadow Druids that act wisely and in character help the world become more convincing and keep the player on their toes.

Ambushing the party is certainly a good idea.

*

But if the fight has to remain in the grove, I think it would be great if there were at least two or three other shadow druids there as well. Maybe a tough ranger sworn to the shadow druid enclave, perhaps wearing a cloak that allows a single wildshape once per long rest. Or better yet, a gloomstalker ranger sworn to the shadow druids, and he's been hiding the entire time, only appearing during the combat.

And I keep coming back to this thought: Kagha treats Olodan as if Olodan is her better. "I can explain Mistress Olodan..." Which is odd to me because Kagha is clearly so much more powerful. I accept that social dynamics don't have to be dependent on level. I mean, a level 10 character can theoretically look up to a level 3 character in a social sense. High level characters are often servants to lower level lords, sure.

But in this case, it feels off. Or rather, it would feel much better if Olodan had a couple levels on Kagha, making her the clear senior druid.

This is a fairly early fight. Gameplay dictates it should be reasonably winnable. If you had to fight Kagha, a strong Olodan, two of her minions, several druids in the Grove AND more strong opponents, it might be a rage quit moment for many. The druids that fight on your side are pretty weak.

I think it makes sense for the Shadow Druids to fight in the Grove because they haven't given up on taking it.

But I like the idea of having some different Shadow Druids ambush you later in the world, especially since it is part of a broader conspiracy There isn't much to Act 1a left by then, but I am sure they could track you to the Underdark. The Underdark doesn't have many challenges until you get to Grymforge.

It's about as early as Flind, which if you opt not to Illithid her to fight for you is a tough fight against her, 3 ranged characters that after a few turns start multi-attacking for 3 attacks per round, a gnoll that shuts down characters bonus actions and a couple of hyenas.

While the 2 Zhents sit in their cave doing nothing.

Also, as early as the Ethel fight, which if you're unprepared can be difficult too when she splits into 6 all blasting your party with full power Ray of Sickness (She can TPK you right off the bat before you even have chance to remove some of her copies)

Not to mention, that the situation you describe of going against Olodan + Kagha together is one where you've picked all the dialogue options that lead to the most difficult fight where you neither joined with the Shadow Druids, nor convinced Kagha to go against them.

There are other dialogue fails in the game that will just outright kill you (Such as kissing the dying Mind Flayer in the Nautiloid wreckage... Goading Vlaakith to kill you... Killing a certain story important NPC...). I don't think we should shy away from a difficult fight, when that at least allows you a chance to redeem your poor decisions unlike insta-deaths.

They also don't surprise the party in combat very often. This should be one of those cases where rats turning into Shadow Druids all around you should give them a surprise round.

Why even add feats like Alert that counters being surprised if you're not going to use the mechanic? I guess players don't like being surprised because we are now entitled to dictate everything that happens in a game. Like killing bosses before they get a turn, use Stealth with a 100% success rate in full plate and respec our characters whenever and as often as we feel like.