Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Are the companion story lines thematic or forced?

So regarding DU, I'm skeptical that it was ever meant to be the default Tav. Getting random urges to attack a weird, evil mental construct is a far cry from what we experience as DU. There was no hint of it elsewhere in EA. Also I am very glad DU was not default because if it were, I'd never play the game. The level of darkness and gore imposed upon the character just would have been too much, and I'm sure other people would have felt the same.

As for the main topic of this thread, I suspect part of the problem is that Larian locked down the nautiloid opening sequence years in advance at some point months before EA, and as the story developed they couldn't give it a different beginning. Because if you think about it, once you know what the nautiloid we start in was actually sent to do, it doesn't make sense why they would attack a random city and take captives on what is supposed to be a specific mission with a specific goal.

Furthermore regarding the "It's fate" idea that Ido posits, I don't mind fate being a thing in fantasy stories, but it's really not a thing here. I'd buy it if it was like, each and every companion was vital to ultimately stopping this threat and they all had to play a part along the way. Nut that's not the case. You can play through this game solo and that doesn't really alter the ending.

Larian didn't just write Durge's story out of nothing,
How am I so sure? Well, interacting with a bunch NPCs as Durge feels really... tacked on, especially the NPCs Durge was supposed to have known pre-amniesia.

I like the option to have a clean slate with Tav, basically one of the only truly sane people in the group, and the Durge, which is a really nice nod to the old games.
With Tav, I can project my own roleplay ideas into ( I made for example two of my DnD characters in BG3).


About the coincidences around the companions: I was a bit surprised, how so many Baldurians ended up on the Nautiloid. I mean, Shadowheart was on a mission and not in BG, true, but Astarion for example - it sounds, like he and a Tav that is not one of the Underdark races or gith, are supposed to have been snatched off the street. Durge was a bit more discreet . But what the heck would some mindflayer cult want with a vampire spawn and a nobody?
Wyll and Karlach must have jumped on the ship and instantly be snatched and tadpoled, while Tav/Durge was running through the ship, freeing Us, stealing everything not nailed down ... One would think, the mindflayers would have other problems than tadpole a lady so hot, that she should burn the tadpole, and some random guy. I mean, if Wyll was that great fighter, I can see the cult maybe wanting him, but on the middle of a catastrophe?
And Gale- well I guess, he might be there a bit longer on the ship.
Lae'zel was according to her own words not with the gith attacking the ship, so did she get snatched in the astral plane? She knows nothing about Faerun, so she probably wasn't there before.
And Durge: we know, how they were tadpoled and who did that to them, so seeing a mindflayer in the first person perspective inserting the tadpole on that ship doesn't make sense. At that time Durge was already tadpoled, they were somewhere else entirely, so why would they end up on that ship?

And then it turn out, that they all have some ties to the main plot, but Astarion and Tav. So at least, there should be made clear, that they were snatched up for a purpose imo.
Astarion suffers the most with the plot change around Cazador, since he and his story can just be ignored without consequences. As I recall, Cazador was supposed to be tied to the main plot, which probably was scratched with the upper city map.

The simple reason is because it's a game. The writers wanted your companions to have backstories and arcs that tie into the main story, including the locations you visit and characters you meet, and that all leads to Baldur's Gate.

I don't think it's really because of the Origin character thing, because normal Tav doesn't have or need a backstory that ties into the plot. So it would probably be much the same if they'd ditched the Origin character thing and just had them as companions to your Tav like other games, which is probably how most people play anyway. I'd guess it's more to do with the writers just wanting them to have a big part in the main story, where others might have given them less major roles or made their character arcs more separate from the main story.

Is it all a bit contrived? Sure, it was a design choice to put a bunch of characters together with strong existing connections to events.
Could they have made it all seem a bit more logical and less coincidental? Probably.

I think predestination is quite reasonable if you want an in universe explanation. In a world where Gods are definitely real and meddle in the affairs of mortals, it could well be that one or more higher powers has subtly nudged things along to get all the right people together for you to succeed. Possibly even the big cheese, Ao. Gandalf might say that they were all just meant to be together.

Personally, I like Lae'zel's character arc the most. Because she doesn't start with any big connection to the main events, she isn't special in any way, she's just a regular Githyanki soldier, but ends up being (or can be) super important to how the story plays out. Her arc is just developed throughout the game and doesn't rely on there being any big mystery around her.

Which city is it then? I often wondered why nobody in Baldur's Gate mentioned the nautiloid raid.
And if party members were picked up in another city, what were they doing there if they are Baldurians (the game insists on making Tav a Baldurian even if she/he is a barbarian)?

I never really asked myself this question before it came up in this thread. However, the thing that has been puzzling me from the start was : how and where did Shadowheart obtain the artefact. I was patiently waiting for an explanation before the grand finale, so you can imagine the disappointment when it never go tcleared up..
But maybe one can make it tie in with the origin of all the characters at the time of abduction. Maybe they all gravitated towards the artefact which would then have been located in or near BG. Lae'zel woudln't be traveling on her own. Maybe she was in a party of Gith that were also looking for the artefact when she was snatched up. Astarion and Tav were naturally in the city without link to the artefact and Gale could be visiting Sorcerous Sundries for his own purpose. But, for me this particular coincidence of locale isn't really a thing. The appearance of the artefact in SH's pocket however will always puzzle me.

Yartar. Swen said so in one of the earliest cinematic reveal streams.

Why do I remember such 'useless information'? I dunno.

Yartar? That rings zero bells. Is the city mentioned in the game itself at all? I do not recall the characters discussing being in Yartar and getting scooped up by a giant flying squid. Such events are not worth mentioning? And what is the explanation for Baldurians to be in Yartar? There happened to be simultanious conventions of barbarians, wizards and Shar worshippers, coinciding with the biannual regional vampire meetup?

But there is a Place when she tells yu How she got the Artifact..
its a conversation that yu can get when yu First Get in the Cresch with Her.. just Turn around and Try to Speak with Her..
She will Talk about how she get the artifact..

if yu explore around the cresch or sleep will go away.. yu have to Talk as soon yu get in..
Best if did not even cross the Main door ..
(just Turn around and Try Talk to Her.. she will Have something to say about the cresch and the artifact..)

in truth there are a Loooot of cool conversations that works this way.. if yu Rush places or sleep by yu will Miss..
(becouse there is no Exclamation most of times for this conversations..)
Always Try to Talk with evry companion yu Have when yu get in some Unique Place or Do something Unique..
almost all the Times they will Have something to say.

Nope, Yartar never comes up. Which is wild since you'd think a city being attacked by a giant squid-ship would get talked about. Like, you'd think Jaheira would bring it up since she knows we're dealing with Ilithid tadpoles. That's a big part of why I suspect locking in that opening sequence so early was a detriment to them, because as it is now, that entire scene is basically a relic that has no bearing on the plot or story.

It is unfortunate I missed that. Guess I will have to search if there is a spoiler somewhere on this topic. Can't go back all the way to redo the creche search.
Does it also explain how everyone knew that the artefact was on that Nautiloid (and were searching for survivors of the crash ?)
I think this is one of the most disturbing loopholes in the story.
(also, what if you dont have SH in the party at that time.... What was Larian thinking stuffing it at that place)

Now yu got me.. i dont remember for sure the entire conversation..
But she Tells yu about her mission to get the artifact and how evrybody Dies and only her survive scaping with the stuff..
(i Beleave that Vlakith got wind of this and Send the Dudes in the Beggining behind Her with the artifact..)

Becouse she clearly tells yu this.. She Steals the artifact in a Mission when evrybody dies but Her.
and that she would never imagine coming back to a Cresh ever again..
that we are in dangers and yata, yata, yata.

Later in the Sharran Stuff in Act 3.. yu can even Find the Notes for the Names of the Dudes in the Mission..
and the Preparations before they Left out for the quest.
(the Head of the Cloister has a Book too with the entire Life of Shadowheart.. Like she was her Pet.. pretty creepy stuff indeed.)
BTW Shadowheart has 40 years old.. haha
in the Book has the Last 40 years of her Life.

Yep, I know that Viconia sent her to search for the artefact. There were different groups sent out, that's clearly explained in the House of G. quest.
So here, SH could also explain where it was, how she found it and how she managed to get it in her possession. I guess most players will choose to add SH in their party for this quest.
That the Githyanki dragons followed the Nautiloid because they knew the artefact was in it seems logical.
But that the absolutists also knew it would need some explanation. The illithid that were on the nautiloid didn't know it. Else they woudl have taken it from SH.

Well if yu Explore the Cloister has Letters from Viconia and Gortash if im Not Wrong..
Maybe thats How absolute got wind of the artifact too.
Dont know if im Wrong.
(Its in the Locked Doors As Soon yu Go down There.. Lock pick Both of then i dont remember in wich side is.. but its there yu get a Clue for Raph House too.)

But yu are not wrong.. there are some Plot Holes in this Tale really weird..
and some Has Clues Here and There like this one i Told yu..
i actually Like this.. remembers me the Lore of Souls Borne Series..when whe discover always something new..
evrytime we find new Clues.

(sometimes is just in front of your Nose the Stuff and yu cannot See..haha xD)

Something i Never Tried but i Know yu can Do and Maybe will Find More Aswer this Way is Talking to Viconia Solo..
i Never did becouse i always Romance Shadow and when i get there i always want Blood for what was done with her..
But i Know yu can go there and Confront Viconia Solo..
Maybe she will spill out the Beans if yu do this..
Give a Shot Maybe she will Gave us what we want to Know..

(something i Just Remeber about the Talk yu Have in the Cresch yu have a Option to kinda pressionate her in why the artifact was so important to Viconia/Mother but even she dosent Know.. becouse of Wiped Memory for the Quest. and the Plot Get Darker..haha Told Yu Great Secret.. if Larian Made this Like Soulslike style man.. i will Cry.)

Maybe this topic merits its own thread, so this one can stay on the topic of the BG locale. I'll open a new one.

Yeah i always Felt that this Game Drop some Secrets here and There.. and since the First Time i Notice most of then..
i just went Nuts.. im a Old Souls fan it was like Calling to me yu Know ?
Screaming in My Face.. Wait.. theres something in here.. i need to dig a litle deeper..haha

already Played a Lot of this Game more then 1200 hrs.. and i beleave i did not see it all yet.
still think there are conversations i did not get with Shadow or Laezel that coul bring some light in this Stuff..
becouse dont know.. yu can find different stuff in both paths they Have..
and sometimes explains a lot on why things go that way

and no Joke.. this game its a Beast on its own when it comes to slap my Face..
i told yu 1200 hrs .. but none of my Runs went equal.
im not Lying.. even when i Try to Force the Game to Go the way i want the events..
he slaps me in the face and show me something new.. that i did not see before.

The Wyll/Karlach story does seem a bit "forced", I mean one stowing away okay, but both. Also why do either have Tadpoles, in Avernus the ship was under heavy attack, no one would take time to capture either.

Gale is also a bit is a stretch, he is supposed to be, when he was captured, a POWERFUL archmage. The ship was making hit and run grabs, surely they would not have tried to grab someone that could in theory easily destroy the ship.

The truth is only Shadowheart and Lae'zel actually seem to fit being involved directly. I could maybe accept Astarion but after that your correct, the storylines seen VERY forced to make them work.

I mean I can sort of accept Halsin as he is trying to clear the land around the tower in Act 2 and he is discovered along the way, not just another Illithid experiment. Jaheira and Minsc, in my opinion, where done for pure BG effect. In the BG Novels Jaheira is dead and Minsc as noted was no longer available either. They feel like they where added, not for story effect but for the team to say, see we added some old BG into the game. Did they feel this was needed to give the game legitimacy?

Storylines in ANY RPG are going to use certain hooks and follow storylines that have been told before. That is cool we all get that. However I do agree that the "hook" in BG3 is WILDY overused for the companions.

I mean, you're right. Thinking about it, HOW did Gale get captured anyway? Dimension Door and Teleport exists, at the very least. Not only that, why bother tadpoling someone with a nuke in their chest? Why does tadpoling an UNDEAD work? Lae'zel fits, but it's an open question why the Sharrans were part of this at all. At best, it's a convoluted gambit pile up. How did the Sharrans found out about the prism and why did they want it, when it's only feature seems to be that it's anti-mindflayer?

The only way Astarion and Gale would be on the ship is when they got tadpoled some time ago and placed on that ship. The ship had a specific mission and thus no time to pick up Gale outside of Waterdeep or Astarion who would only come out at night in Baldurs Gate.
Yet both act like they only got tadpoled at the start of the game.

And you are right, Wyll and Karlach being tadpoled makes no sense as the stay in Avernus was very limited, the ship under heavy attack with hardly a mind flayer alive and we were at the pool where the tadpoles come from and saw no one else.

Viconia explains why she sent her agents out to find the prism. The Absolute, as a religion, was directly competing with Sharran religion for the same converts, and advancing in her religious territory, so to speak. She had been spying on this new cult and found out that they feared an artefact which they were desperately trying to find. So she had to find it before they did.