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Bard of Suzail
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Bard of Suzail
Joined: Oct 2020
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Viconia explains why she sent her agents out to find the prism. The Absolute, as a religion, was directly competing with Sharran religion for the same converts, and advancing in her religious territory, so to speak. She had been spying on this new cult and found out that they feared an artefact which they were desperately trying to find. So she had to find it before they did. This implies that before Tav was even captured, the Cult of the Absolute had begin and was gathering followers. The way the story is layout this sounds like a major plot whole as it seems outside the timeline and factors we know of.
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2023
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The Wyll/Karlach story does seem a bit "forced", I mean one stowing away okay, but both. Also why do either have Tadpoles, in Avernus the ship was under heavy attack, no one would take time to capture either.
Gale is also a bit is a stretch, he is supposed to be, when he was captured, a POWERFUL archmage. The ship was making hit and run grabs, surely they would not have tried to grab someone that could in theory easily destroy the ship.
The truth is only Shadowheart and Lae'zel actually seem to fit being involved directly. I could maybe accept Astarion but after that your correct, the storylines seen VERY forced to make them work.
I mean I can sort of accept Halsin as he is trying to clear the land around the tower in Act 2 and he is discovered along the way, not just another Illithid experiment. Jaheira and Minsc, in my opinion, where done for pure BG effect. In the BG Novels Jaheira is dead and Minsc as noted was no longer available either. They feel like they where added, not for story effect but for the team to say, see we added some old BG into the game. Did they feel this was needed to give the game legitimacy?
Storylines in ANY RPG are going to use certain hooks and follow storylines that have been told before. That is cool we all get that. However I do agree that the "hook" in BG3 is WILDY overused for the companions. I mean, you're right. Thinking about it, HOW did Gale get captured anyway? Dimension Door and Teleport exists, at the very least. Not only that, why bother tadpoling someone with a nuke in their chest? Why does tadpoling an UNDEAD work? Lae'zel fits, but it's an open question why the Sharrans were part of this at all. At best, it's a convoluted gambit pile up. How did the Sharrans found out about the prism and why did they want it, when it's only feature seems to be that it's anti-mindflayer? Viconia explains why she sent her agents out to find the prism. The Absolute, as a religion, was directly competing with Sharran religion for the same converts, and advancing in her religious territory, so to speak. She had been spying on this new cult and found out that they feared an artefact which they were desperately trying to find. So she had to find it before they did. And somehow knew to torture a Githyanki to find out where it was? But by the time her agents were actually sent out, the Githyanki hadn't caught up to it yet even through they could track it across planes?
Last edited by Rahaya; 27/11/23 05:16 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Viconia explains why she sent her agents out to find the prism. The Absolute, as a religion, was directly competing with Sharran religion for the same converts, and advancing in her religious territory, so to speak. She had been spying on this new cult and found out that they feared an artefact which they were desperately trying to find. So she had to find it before they did. This implies that before Tav was even captured, the Cult of the Absolute had begin and was gathering followers. The way the story is layout this sounds like a major plot whole as it seems outside the timeline and factors we know of. I don't see this problem with timeline. Nettie also explains to Tav that there have been "tadpoled" people converging on the Selune temple from everywhere. She even says something to the effect that there should be a whole army of mindflayers out there by now. So yes, the cult had already already been growing for quite some time. When you get to BG, Nine fingers also explains that the cult has been growing in the wake of the Iron Lord's taking over "underground" business.
Last edited by ldo58; 27/11/23 05:16 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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About the cult of the Absolute timeline: it sounded to me in the conversation with Gortash as Durge and from letters from Gortash and Durge, that they were doing this for a while, but in secret. Someone like Gale might have been selected exactly for his powers - let's send in our human bomb.
Still not sure about Wyll and Karlach. I mean, Zevlor was much longer in mindflayer hands and didn't get tadpoled, why should Wyll and Karlach get speed-tadpoled during a crisis? DId tehy need people quickly? They allready had tons of pods full of tadpoled people.
And Viconia: I get, why she wanted the artifact, but where had she find out, how to find it?
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2023
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Still not sure about Wyll and Karlach. I mean, Zevlor was much longer in mindflayer hands and didn't get tadpoled, why should Wyll and Karlach get speed-tadpoled during a crisis? DId tehy need people quickly? They allready had tons of pods full of tadpoled people. I can see the cultists might want to have Zariel’s favorite executioner and the son of the duke under their thumb. It’s just the timing of how quickly it must have occured that bothers me.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2023
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Still not sure about Wyll and Karlach. I mean, Zevlor was much longer in mindflayer hands and didn't get tadpoled, why should Wyll and Karlach get speed-tadpoled during a crisis? DId tehy need people quickly? They allready had tons of pods full of tadpoled people. I can see the cultists might want to have Zariel’s favorite executioner and the son of the duke under their thumb. It’s just the timing of how quickly it must have occured that bothers me. Would they even know who those two people they just randomly picked up in hell are?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2023
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I can see the cultists might want to have Zariel’s favorite executioner and the son of the duke under their thumb. It’s just the timing of how quickly it must have occured that bothers me. Would they even know who those two people they just randomly picked up in hell are? The only way I can think to rationalize it is if while being stowaways, the mindflayers then found both Karlach and Wyll, then pulled the information out by digging into their thoughts/torturing it out of them both. I just don’t buy the timing. The ship was being attacked during that quick interval spent in hell. The priority would’ve been regaining control of the ship and fighting off the githyanki.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Still not sure about Wyll and Karlach. I mean, Zevlor was much longer in mindflayer hands and didn't get tadpoled, why should Wyll and Karlach get speed-tadpoled during a crisis? DId tehy need people quickly? They allready had tons of pods full of tadpoled people. I can see the cultists might want to have Zariel’s favorite executioner and the son of the duke under their thumb. It’s just the timing of how quickly it must have occured that bothers me. Would they even know who those two people they just randomly picked up in hell are? They would, because Gortash know them (Karlach) or of them (Wyll). Laurentia: I'm not questioning, that they choose Wyll and Karlach to get tadpoled, but the quickness of it - I honestly try to make it work into the timeframe of the prologue.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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member
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Joined: Aug 2023
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I'm not questioning, that they choose Wyll and Karlach to get tadpoled, but the quickness of it - I honestly try to make it work into the timeframe of the prologue. Karlach and Wyll, hmm. I can already see it... Mind flayer 1: Steven, stop playing with the brains of the captured and help me! The Gith and their dragons are attacking! Mind flayer 2: What? Mind flayer 1: The Gith are trying to bloody kill us, get your ass to the guns! Mind flayer 3: Guys, guys! You are not going to believe what I found in the ships storage area. Mind flayer 1/2: Oh for the love of...Bob get on the guns and defend the ship! Mind flayer 3: Buuut guys! I found 2 stowaways and I tadpoled them  On a more serious note, how did they get on the ship? Did they just jump in while it was flying and on fire? But yeah, if you stop to think about it the speed (and the time) at which they got tadpoled makes no sense. Am I to believe that Mind flyers had time to go through that process while everything around them was exploding?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2023
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Hmm. On the other hand, they were being attacked. The mindflayers would want as many able-bodied meatshields to fend off the gith for them. So maybe the tadpole %speedrun isn’t too far fetched lol.
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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Hmm. On the other hand, they were being attacked. The mindflayers would want as many able-bodied meatshields to fend off the gith for them. So maybe the tadpole %speedrun isn’t too far fetched lol. Not bad, I could see it that way. But that sure is one hell of a tadpole speedrun lol. How long was that ship in Avernus? Few minutes? So both of them board the ship within that timeframe, both are so unlucky that they are found out immediately, defeated, dragged to one for the tadpole rooms and locked into their respective pods? Damn. Every story has its coincidences and inconstancies that you just deal with for the story to work. (Suspension of disbelief all that) But BG3 has a lot of those 'just don't think about it too much and enjoy the spectacle moments'. You know, it just works. (Where's my Todd smiley)
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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I'm not questioning, that they choose Wyll and Karlach to get tadpoled, but the quickness of it - I honestly try to make it work into the timeframe of the prologue. Karlach and Wyll, hmm. I can already see it... Mind flayer 1: Steven, stop playing with the brains of the captured and help me! The Gith and their dragons are attacking! Mind flayer 2: What? Mind flayer 1: The Gith are trying to bloody kill us, get your ass to the guns! Mind flayer 3: Guys, guys! You are not going to believe what I found in the ships storage area. Mind flayer 1/2: Oh for the love of...Bob get on the guns and defend the ship! Mind flayer 3: Buuut guys! I found 2 stowaways and I tadpoled them On a more serious note, how did they get on the ship? Did they just jump in while it was flying and on fire? But yeah, if you stop to think about it the speed (and the time) at which they got tadpoled makes no sense. Am I to believe that Mind flyers had time to go through that process while everything around them was exploding? Steven and Bob need their own game ... but sadly, they won't have survied I guess. And yes, I guess speedrun tadpoling is a thing now. I mean, it was pretty quick in the intro. I just don't understand, wyh Durge got the same tadpole scene than Tav, when the game clearly tells you as Durge, that you were tadpoled by Orin and brought to the mindflayer colony.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2023
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Not bad, I could see it that way. But that sure is one hell of a tadpole speedrun lol.
How long was that ship in Avernus? Few minutes? So both of them board the ship within that timeframe, both are so unlucky that they are found out immediately, defeated, dragged to one for the tadpole rooms and locked into their respective pods? Damn.
Every story has its coincidences and inconstancies that you just deal with for the story to work. (Suspension of disbelief all that) But BG3 has a lot of those 'just don't think about it too much and enjoy the spectacle moments'. You know, it just works. (Where's my Todd smiley) Yep. The ship was airborne during that time too. So both Karlach and Wyll would’ve either had to teleport or flown directly into the ship, while it was being assaulted by gith on dragons + demons. My head is beginning to hurt, honestly haha I just don't understand, wyh Durge got the same tadpole scene than Tav, when the game clearly tells you as Durge, that you were tadpoled by Orin and brought to the mindflayer colony. That bothers me too. How did the durge get moved from moonrise to the nautiloid? After Kressa stitched their head back together, it did sound like the durge was too aggressive to be kept captive, but I don’t recall a follow up on what happened after that. Orin seems like she gets too attached to her victims to let them go anyway. She’d rather make art pieces out of them. In fact, if you play as Tav the durge’s corpse is still left in the back of the bhaal temple.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Not bad, I could see it that way. But that sure is one hell of a tadpole speedrun lol.
How long was that ship in Avernus? Few minutes? So both of them board the ship within that timeframe, both are so unlucky that they are found out immediately, defeated, dragged to one for the tadpole rooms and locked into their respective pods? Damn.
Every story has its coincidences and inconstancies that you just deal with for the story to work. (Suspension of disbelief all that) But BG3 has a lot of those 'just don't think about it too much and enjoy the spectacle moments'. You know, it just works. (Where's my Todd smiley) Yep. The ship was airborne during that time too. So both Karlach and Wyll would’ve either had to teleport or flown directly into the ship, while it was being assaulted by gith on dragons + demons. My head is beginning to hurt, honestly haha I just don't understand, wyh Durge got the same tadpole scene than Tav, when the game clearly tells you as Durge, that you were tadpoled by Orin and brought to the mindflayer colony. That bothers me too. How did the durge get moved from moonrise to the nautiloid? After Kressa stitched their head back together, it did sound like the durge was too aggressive to be kept captive, but I don’t recall a follow up on what happened after that. Orin seems like she gets too attached to her victims to let them go anyway. She’d rather make art pieces out of them. In fact, if you play as Tav the durge’s corpse is still left in the back of the bhaal temple. Kressa mentioned, that Durge, her favorite plaything, was taken from her. So I guess, it is possible, they were brought to the nautiloid, but they weren't tadpoled there or Orin lied (I mean... shocker, right?)
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2023
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Kressa mentioned, that Durge, her favorite plaything, was taken from her. So I guess, it is possible, they were brought to the nautiloid, but they weren't tadpoled there or Orin lied (I mean... shocker, right?) You can find a journal in I think Balthazar's room that says Durge was put on the nautiloid 10 days after Orin had her little rummage around inside their skull.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2023
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The druids already know about them, plus we see all the True Souls we see already in power. It must be ongoing, not the beginning.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Kressa mentioned, that Durge, her favorite plaything, was taken from her. So I guess, it is possible, they were brought to the nautiloid, but they weren't tadpoled there or Orin lied (I mean... shocker, right?) You can find a journal in I think Balthazar's room that says Durge was put on the nautiloid 10 days after Orin had her little rummage around inside their skull. Yes, that I know. But Durge was already tadpoled when taken to the Nautiloid, so the scene from the intro doesn't make sense for a Durge. They were taken out by Orin, tadpoled and brought to the mindflayer colony with Kressa. From there, they were brought already tadpoled to the Nautiloid.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2021
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Kressa mentioned, that Durge, her favorite plaything, was taken from her. So I guess, it is possible, they were brought to the nautiloid, but they weren't tadpoled there or Orin lied (I mean... shocker, right?) You can find a journal in I think Balthazar's room that says Durge was put on the nautiloid 10 days after Orin had her little rummage around inside their skull. Yes, that I know. But Durge was already tadpoled when taken to the Nautiloid, so the scene from the intro doesn't make sense for a Durge. They were taken out by Orin, tadpoled and brought to the mindflayer colony with Kressa. From there, they were brought already tadpoled to the Nautiloid. I thought it was Tav in the intro? Who said it was Durge?
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2023
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If you play Durge it's supposed to be you because it's your POV.
I find it funny that the game implies that our nautiloid was going to Moonrise before the crash, which means that Durge was only there for a ride.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Kressa mentioned, that Durge, her favorite plaything, was taken from her. So I guess, it is possible, they were brought to the nautiloid, but they weren't tadpoled there or Orin lied (I mean... shocker, right?) You can find a journal in I think Balthazar's room that says Durge was put on the nautiloid 10 days after Orin had her little rummage around inside their skull. Yes, that I know. But Durge was already tadpoled when taken to the Nautiloid, so the scene from the intro doesn't make sense for a Durge. They were taken out by Orin, tadpoled and brought to the mindflayer colony with Kressa. From there, they were brought already tadpoled to the Nautiloid. I thought it was Tav in the intro? Who said it was Durge? What timekiller said: It is your PoV, so if you play Durge, that is Durge - and that doesn't make sense.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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