Larian Studios

Okay so…am I the only one who has a problem with the whole “Selunite rite of passage” concept that the game introduced in Shadowheart’s backstory?
You are telling me that Selune, arguably one of the most steadfastly benevolent deities in the setting, has a ritual that involves sending CHILDREN ( and yes, children. The flashback showed Shadowheart as almost half the size of Viconia, she definitely wasn’t a young adult) out into the forest by themselves and expecting them to find their way back?

Such a ritual would already be foul and barbaric in OUR world, where the worst you could run into is like…a wolf. But this is FEARUN we are talking about. A world where people that walk into a forest by themselves have a roughly 75% chance of being murdered and eaten, not necessarily in that order, and that’s if they are ADULTS.

Now, I understand that the developers likely wished to lean into the “self-reliance” aspect of Selunite doctrine…but there is a distinct difference between “developing your own skills and trying to be self-reliant” and “sending your kids into a dark forest where they are liable to be eaten by the innumerable nasties that dwell on this hellish world”.

I think that the main thing that bothers me is that…no one seems to take exception to this in the game? Never does anyone go “excuse me, the Selunites are doing WHAT now?” Even though any religious rite that risks the life of innocent people, especially CHILDREN, would be enough for any non-evil/non-fanatical society to brand said religion as evil and ban it outright.

While I of course respect that the developers can world-build however they like, I personally just…can’t finish Shadowhearts story. Because her options seem to be a) dedicating herself to fucking Shar, arguably the most wicked goddess in the setting or b) converting to Selune,who in Baldur’s Gate version of the lore APPARENTLY does stuff like THIS?

Yeah, I found it to be pretty incongruous with how good Selune is meant to be portrayed in the game. I get that in a setting like Faerun a ritual like that wouldn't be seen as especially cruel (it's intense but it's not like there are traps or anything set up to make them fail) but it also doesn't really seem thematically in line with Selune. If she were some nature goddess then sure, but that's not really her vibe. It also makes very little sense how that's not commented on as a point against Selune. Shadowheart doesn't call it out as evidence of Selune being actually wicked or hypocritical, which would be totally reasonable.

Apparently her parents are werewolves so maybe it's a thing where the children think they're going out alone but the werewolf members of the community are always there keeping an eye on them, making sure they're not in any danger. I could see that working really well in fact because A) it proves a distinction between Shar and Selune, where Shar wants you to lean fully on her and rely on her so that she can weaken you and make you vulnerable, while Selune wants you to be self-reliant but still provides a safety net so you can grow in relative safety and B) that could serve as a point of conflict for Shadowheart, she could resent having to go through that trial, not knowing she was in no danger, and having that be a source of anger against Selune that she can address when she learns the truth. But as is, the game really doesn't even seem to think there's anything notable about this rite of passage, and it's also apparently common enough that a history check can figure it out, without there seeming to be any indication that it was something done by just a specific community, which is the only way the werewolf thing would work out.

That is initially what I thought happened when I heard about the wolf being her dad. Sadly the dialogue Shadowheart has with him makes it quite clear that the only reason he was there is that they found a Sharran spy near the village.

Funnily enough, even the nature gods you mentioned probably wouldn’t pull something like this. Some of them maybe, the more brutal ones like Silvanus or godsforbid Malar, but I rather doubt the likes of Mieliki for example would be okay with such a ritual

Yep, talking about asking for tragedy. Religions as presented in BG3 are straight up bat crazy. Selunites building temples in the dark. Lathanderans constructing mountain temples without adequate protection - and doomsday devices!

Baldur's Gate and Elturgard both allowing Sharran Moonrise to spring up in their march lands. Baldur's gate having 2 secret evil temples within its walls. Absolute bonkers.

Actually, Selunite child neglect seems the least crazy of the lot. Certainly don't deserve much sympathy, however.

This always struck me as something akin to a rite of passage explained in Guy Gavriel Kays 'The Fionavaar Trilogy'.

Where youngsters had to spend a night alone in the woods to find their spirit animal.

Or at least that was what the youngsters believed. In actuality the tribe sent out protectors who kept themselves hidden from the youngsters but were there solely to make sure the kids were safe, something that only leadership knew and wouldn't have been known even to the parents. It was to test their training and their ability to keep themselves hidden from danger if it could be avoided. Knowing that someone was lurking to help them if needed would have trivialised the entire ritual.

I have no idea why but I always felt this was similar but that the Sharrans hunting for children had killed any guardians.

Might be wishful thinking but to me that would at least make some kind of sense.

I'm not that deep in the lore, but if you ask me, I'll take having to find m way home over any sharran bs any day, and it's most likely crafted specifically for Shadowheart's backstory.

I personally always found it funny Shadowheart refering to the coming of age right as "Barbaric nonsense", and then claims that it's nothing compared to sharran tests. Well yes , when it comes to being barbaric and wicked, it is indeed nothing compared to those.

I mean yeah, obviously the shit Sharans get up to is even worse, but that is like comparing murder to murder with torture involved. Sure, the former is not quite as horrific as the latter…but that does not make it not horrific.

Just add it to the list of illogical lore breaks of the game under the number umpteen something.

Well if yu Nitpick evrything Wrong in the Lore with this Game..
Trust me they would have to rewrite the entire Thing.. haha
Like Karsus Crow. (Karsus in the Canon Made 12lvl spell not a Crow Larian.)
The Selune Rite of Passage.. (if im not Wrong was different in the Table Top)
Sarevok (do i need to say more ?!)
Viconnia (do i need to say more if yu play the other games ?!)
Jaheira (died in one of the comics but its alive in the Game)
and So On..

Try to dont get too Mad when this stuff happens or yu will not even be able to enjoy the Game Trust me..

To clarify: I do not mind them changing the lore, whatsoever.
My complaint is this post is about the fact that they made this change to Selune AND did not have it make her an evil god in the eyes of the characters and the storyline.
Like, if they wanted to turn Selune into some brutal, “fend for yourself “ goddess, I would not be complaining. Sure I’d have been slightly sad because in Lore she is one of my favorite gods, but I’d have been fine with it. But the in-world perception of Selune still seems as positive as it is in the lore, which is in my eyes inconsistent with this new lore they’ve made for the game.

And more importantly, it makes playing through Shadowheart’s story….quite difficult on an emotional level

Like…I just can’t play through Shadowheart’s story. I can’t let her stay a Sharan, cause Shar is hella evil. I can’t make her into a Selunite, cause in the Baldur’s Gate version of the lore Selune is apparently ALSO despicable

Like, option a: literal embodiment of nihilistic destruction
Option b: apparently endorses child endangerment

I am not sure if it was mentioned, but in her restored memory you see

I thought that too for a time, but dialogue with her father reveals he only went looking for her after they caught a Sharan spy near their village, so sadly, she was very much alone originally.

I am sorry for getting this emotional, but putting kids in danger has always had the tendency to make me go a tad hysterical, even if it’s in the context of a story ( clarification, I obviously don’t mind kids being put in danger in stories for plot reasons. I only get aggravated when said story presents the child endangerment as acceptable)

Like, sure. Knowing Selune’s normal lore in the Forgotten Realms, it seems reasonable to suggest she would make godsdamned sure that those children never came to harm. The lore even states that she often guides people lost in the night.


BUT..

Most of the conversations about it in the game seem to imply otherwise for some reason!!
It’s just so fucking frustrating, because I really want to play with Shadowheart in my party as a primary member, but I just feel like I….can’t

Aw, don't worry. Everyone has things that are especially important to them. I was not very comfortable with how strongly her parents wanted her to become a Selunite either, for the same reason that I am not comfortable with Lae'zel shifting her loyalty from a God-Queen to a God-King so quickly. But I was quite content that Shart herself appears to be questioning and not eager to embrace Selune on a whim or because she is supposed to. I saw someone comment on a yt video that they skilled Shart into a Nature Cleric by the end of the story to represent her love for nature and indicate that she is now finally trying to find her own path.

Thanks. I still find it immensely vexing, though at a minimum I’m gonna headcannon that when my Tav romances Shadowheart they are going to have a serious conversation that basically boils down to “Shadowheart, my dearest love, if we ever have children, the Church of Selune is not coming within a fucking mile of them, Aight?”

@senneverwaeren the part you missed is that her mom and dad are with her, protecting her from harm so she only thinks she is in the forrest alone... like letting your kids walk to the bus stop while you watch them from the house or even walking to school while you follow a block back behind them

its basic parenting and yes in this case it went horribly wrong

Once again, I thought that was the case too. But the conversations you/Shadowheart have with her parents if you save them, as well as dialogue by Selune cleric etc seem to say otherwise, as I have explained in previous posts

I think its pretty much implied that those woods are normally safe and clearly they weren't that far from where she lived.
Not sure at what point Mum gets picked up but obviously those woods were monitored as someone spotted the Sharran spy lurking nearby,

if everyone was safely home in their beds then no one would have seen anything at all. So someone - most likely more than one - was watching out for any kids undertaking this ritual.

Yes its dumb but I doubt Selune herself has much to do with how her folks interpret and carry out such rituals in such widely scattered communities. We don't even know if SH's group had a (still standing and used) temple and a priest to interpret things just that her folks were devout and hoped she would follow in their footsteps.

Perfectly possible that some communities do this ritual in a more supervised and safe way but SH's group had gotten complacent. Lets be honest the father isn't the brightest - not telling his daughter the werewolf thing - was he waiting to see if it showed up for her before he bothered to mention it?

Blaming a goddess for how her people interpret and carry through with things seems strange, unless its something that habitually goes wrong, and we only know of this one case.