Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Add more answer options for Astarion

All the suggested dialogue options for Tav should still lead to Astarion pressuring them into becoming his spawn, because that's his ultimate goal when he initiates the conversation. No one's asking for extra cute scenes. And if we did get them on top of that, what would be the harm?

'Now I just want to get rid of the tadpoles' - Astarion could say: 'That's the next step, of course. Thanks to the ritual our chances of survival have grown exponentially... And they still can grow further. You could become something more as well, my dear. One little bite...'
"I want to be with you' - Astarion could say: 'Darling, that's exactly what I want as well. To be with you, always. And I have the means to make it a beautiful reality. We could be together for an eternity...'
'You don't have to do anything for me, I'm just glad he won't bother us anymore and we can relax now. We're finally free of him.' - Astarion could say: 'Oh my dear, you truly are the sweetest. We are free, yes, and we'll never have to worry about it anymore. Just like I never have to fear anyone again... so can you become stronger and see all your foes fall before you. You could be so much more..."
'I think we should toast to our victory. I've been saving a bottle just for the occasion.' - Astarion could say: 'You are just so adorable. You even thought of that... awww. We'll do it eventually of course. But don't you want this night to be truly memorable and one of a kind? You could become mine forever...'
'We could go for a midnight stroll in some dark alleys and look for trouble. Not like I'll have to worry about getting hurt with a mighty vampire lord by my side.' - Astarion could say: 'Haha, what a delightful idea, we should definitely do it one night. You could actually become untouchable yourself, you know. I can make it happen... You could join me in immortality and be mine forever...'

I'm not sure of all the details, but from what I've heard the author of that scene is doing it. There was an outrage on the internet when she publicly said that she believes the player in that situation has failed to see Astarion as more than a sex object up to the point that they even want to become a toy themselves. You can clearly see the reflection of her words in the game. Having an idea of what an NPC character is and should act like and writing them a certain way is ok but actually deciding on players' motivation in a very narrow-minded, wild and cruel way and enforcing it is not.

Again, there is nothing wrong with an extra option to delay the transformation into a spawn due to the possible ending that already exists in the game. It's certain Astarion will give them an ultimatum soon, because he's impatient and possessive and there's simply no way a vampire lord would want to see his lover get sick, age and die, while he can prevent it from happening.


I believe it was during the last Panel from Hell before launch when Larian was asked how there are so many scenes and possibilities and that some of them are so niche that maybe only 0.2% of people will see them and if they're not sad about it. Their response indicated that they want even this 0.2% to experience the game the way they want and have the means to be thruthful to their personal story. So even if only 0.2% of people genuinely wanted to go for that option they should still have it. At least for consistency and freedom to roleplay reasons.
I was actually taken aback when I saw the option to kick him in the balls for the first time. I was thinking, "who on earth would do that?". But then I figured some would and I still appreciated it that Larian included it.

I read through the entire dialogue tree for this conversation, and where would a second neutral option lead? How could the dialogue tree and later scenes look like?

If they actually put anything like this in the game, I would be truly ecstatic!

Ignoring information on purpose is part of roleplaying, though, otherwise you are meta-gaming. The only information we get about the ritual itself is what Raphael tells us and what we see under the palace on our way to Cazador. But no matter what, the characters don't get enough information to know that Astarion will make a total personality flip after the ritual and become his worst self in an instant. Some more morally inclined characters might, more evil, selfish, oblivious or naive characters might not (or might not care). I guess we just have to agree to disagree as we seem to see the act of roleplaying quite differently.


It is not supposed to lead anywhere new, it is just flavour to let us roleplay our character with a different intention than what the writer railroads us into. It should sit in the same tree as the "I want your body" line. Just a "I don't want anything. I'm just glad you got what you wanted (alt. I'm just glad you're finally safe)." to which Astarion can reply in his best condescending manner: "You're just precious, aren't you? But I really want to do something for you. Don't you want the gift of eternity? One more bite and we could be together forever." Roleplay flavoured, narrative upheld.

I would like to agree with Nyloths first post. But disagree with another request.

I speak for myself: I am role-playing a good character and the positive meant (?) answers on Astarion's question "So, tell me what you desire. What can I do for my dearest pet?" are more than odd to me (or let's say for my character).
1. "I want to be a vampire, like you." (My good Character never thought or wished to become an ascended Vampire, neither I, this is so out of the blue and out of character)
2. "I want you. I want your body." (After the act 2 emotional romance scene, which good and caring Tav would ever answer "I want your body?", even if deep inside they would like to sleep with A. This is so out of character, too, for my good Tav.

So I also would like to have a positive answer (for a good Tav) like: "Being with you" (instead of "I want your body".) And everything would be fine.
Astarion then could laugh and say the same thing like to the 2. answer, just : Of course, my sweet. "But don't you want more... etc. One more bite...etc. ..To be mine? Forever?"

A. Astarion's ending is fine for me. My Tav (when romancing him) being forced to be his spawn is totally fine for me and I would never ever want this to be changed or having an option to stay mortal in this scene. Like it is now, it's a great power-dynamic story. So yes in this, I do not agree with the request of rewriting the whole scene for having the option not to become his spawn. I don't want this great story to be destroyed. This would change A. Astarion. And he is, how he is, he wants to control. I don't want him less evil. For the "equal" thing we have the other ending. So this is my opinion.

I don't know why the discussion had to lead to this odd "Astarion becomes Cazador. Noone chooses this ending." (?), as if this is a fact. Wrong. I chose it. And I will choose it again. Also equating Astarion with Cazador doesn't do him justice.

There are already enough examples in this topic. It could lead to the same variant of the answer "But if you want the gift of immortality, then I can give you this." This option gives out "I want to be a vampire like you." Add a neutral option like "Now I want to deal with the tadpoles" or "You don't have to repay me with something." He may answer a little differently, but at the end add what I said above.

Once again, I'm tired of repeating this, but if Astarion perceives it as a deal that doesn't mean writer can use my character to show this. I can answer Astarion in the first act in a similar way, when he offers sex, that he does not need to pay for "my services". My character doesn't change from the ritual in any way, so why did my answers suddenly change?

I'm not asking to rewrite full scene, you can already stay mortal with him in a relationship and ask him to turn you at the end of the game. But for this you need do some tricks, I asked to simplify this point, since the phrase for a mortal already exists in the game.

Dont want to offend Nobody.. But
Jesus Astarion did not talk enought already ?!
(he and Gale in all my Games im just a Scunbag and always cut what they have to say becouse i think they talk too much already..xD)
as far as i Know from the Fenstarion Mod Dude coment..
He Claims that Astarion so far is the Origin with the Most Lines..
Something like 1500 lines of dialog..
(thats actually the reason he used IA to Simulate the Voice as Female..)

Ahah, you're right, he really has the most content in the game. But I can't help myself. In fact, I'm asking to complete our character's phrases, not his!

I see your point. It's nice that they even prepared something for this at the end of the game. But people choosing this trick will miss his best cutscene and a lot of content.

Adding this option to the romance cutscene will have to change a lot. It is Astarion's goal to make his lover his (!) spawn (if you don't accept this, he will break up). Not even this scene needs to be changed then, also the s..scene and "on your knees" scene afterwards respectively they have to cut these scenes off for those who choose this new option. Also, IF there is the possibility to convince Astarion to not become his spawn.. the answers at the "on your knees" scene will not make sense anymore. On the one hand, you would be able to convince him to stay mortal and also have the romance with him, but on the other hand, in the "kneel down"-scene you cannot say "no" anymore? Because this will lead to a break-up.

Plus they have to cut off all the afterward conversations, which would not make sense anymore for people convincing him that they will not become his spawn:"You are so beautiful and you will be beautiful forever." - "What happened?" "You made me your spawn, what is going to happen to me?" etc. Adding this one option will lead to a whole series of problems. It is not just one answer.

And it will go on. So if they would add the option for staying mortal for Tav (but still staying Astarion's lover), they need to cut off all this content for players choosing this answer. And these players choosing this option (I guess it will be a lot then), not knowing about this thread, will then complain: "What? That's it? Why is Astarion not saying a thing after this? Why there is no cutscene anymore?" and they will come to this forum and ask for creating new content for mortal Tav. .. And if not already before, then at the latest this whole thing will break his great story into pieces. That's why I don't support this idea.

But, as I said, I will support the first request: Adding a positive answer for a good Tav, because this would and should lead to the same cutscenes and content and would not change Astarion.

(Sorry, if there are mistakes, I am not a native english speaker)

Either way it would be considerable change, which would likely be picked by only a few players.

And yeah, I know it would only be one line, but there are some bigger implications about the follow up lines and scenes.

And as someone pointed out there are origin characters with way less content or undercooked stories, which should be more of a focus.

What would the considerable change be? What would the bigger implications be? No seriously, tell us, because so far you have not offered anything but vague statements.

I know writing fiction is hard, but as someone who gets paid to do it, I can say that the requested 'I just want to be with you' line specifically would go a long way to hammer home how bad the situation actually is. Do you know why? Because the player would have just given Astarion the perfect thing to use against them to get them to agree to be his spawn. He would offer to turn the player like he normally does, and if you so much as hesitate he can slap you in the face with 'but you just said you want to be with me', and now you're stuck in a situation where you either own up to wanting to be with him and let him turn you, or he breaks up with you and gets to call you a liar because clearly you didn't mean it if you don't want to be his spawn. So I don't see what the problem with this change is to you, since it keeps the abuse narrative going in a very effective way. It's actually more effective than anything we have right now, soo... yeah.

If we had an 'I don't want anything from you' line, Astarion could just go 'that's cute, but how about I make you immortal?', and the dialogue would be basically the same it's now. Lot less changes here, but it's also less effective at shining light to how toxic the whole thing is. Still a good neutral option to have, though.

As for the ability to stay with him and not be turned to a spawn (which is not mentioned in the original post and is not something I'd personally care for because I do think that Astarion's ultimatum is important to his character consistency since he's still, you know, Astarion), that's already in the game, you just have to go through specific hoops to get it. Implementing it to the dialogue discussed here would be a big change and the main reason I think this will always remain an fun 'what if' thing, but it's easy to keep the theme of abuse going with this as well by giving the player maybe one or two long rests to come to a decision, and then force it upon them. If you make it to the end game without giving him an answer, then you make the decision in the last dialogue. But like I said, this is a change I don't think would ever be implemented since it would require a lot more work and while it would be nice, the ultimatum is there for a reason, but in the theoretical world where this did happen it still wouldn't change the core theme of the ascension path, as you'd still have to give him the yes or no answer which leads to you either becoming his spawn or breaking up with him.

And as for changes to the other characters, yes they need more content, but we're not discussing that here. We're discussing Astarion. Let's stay on topic and not drag issues not related to the matter at hand into this to try to redirect or distract the conversation. There are posts discussing the other characters already all over the internet, and you can always add to those posts if you want.

Well, judging by that one writer's comments, the intention was to show they player as toxic, not (just) the relationship. Which doesn't really work in roleplay, but alas.

So now instead of something more effective we have "i want your body", and honestly after this I will never be able to take that scene or that sentence seriously.

That’s your interpretation, not everyone views Astarion’s ascension as continuing the cycle of abuse and I certainly don’t view it that way.

What we’re asking for is representation because our narrative has been pushed into a corner of ‘glorifying abuse’ and ‘continuing the cycle’ and all this other nonsense which has absolutely nothing to do with why we chose to ascend him in the first place.

Oh no I'm 100% with you! I like his ascended path, I don't think he'll be abusive, and would like a more positive/neutral dialogue option so that I don't have to pick a fight with Astarion or ask for sex or to be made into a vampire. I would very much like to sit whoever approved of the dialogue options in this situation down and ask them why they thought pushing their far too narrow views of what the player must be roleplaying as in this moment was a good idea, and then explain to them why they're wrong and that there should be at least one neutral/positive option for the player to select because the player is not the one that just ascended; they should still be the same person they were before that whole ordeal, and the dialogue should take into consideration those who ascend him without wanting something from him and who don't have a problem with how he's acting right now, which the two options that aren't the 'give me something in return' options don't reflect.

I phrased my response the way I did because the person I was responding has said earlier that a neutral/positive response to Astarion would "ruin the narrative of the cycle of abuse". I answered in a way that would alleviate their concerns about this because I didn't feel like restarting the 'but the abuse narrative!!' bit again and because if the that narrative needs to be important or something, it can still be done easily with a neutral player response. Ideally a neutral response from the player would obviously get a positive response from Astarion, and the whole conversation could go over a lot smoother than it does now. Granted I also like myself a toxic ship so I don't mind Astarion being the way he is in this scene (just the lack of the neutral/positive dialogue option for the players), and I've always read Astarion's insistence on turning you into his spawn right now on the spot as his insecurity about the relationship rearing its head, coupled with him riding the high the ascension gave him so he's doing the one thing he knows will ensure you won't leave him (it'd be nice if he remembered he could just say he's worried about this tho) and not as him having magically turned into the next Cazador and wanting you as his spawn so he can take control of you down the line. Questionable for sure, but not anywhere near what people insist we're supposed to read it as.

Ahhh I gotcha! I completely misread that lolz, sorry! <3

Ahhh I gotcha! I completely misread that lolz, sorry! <3

From a game design perspective:
You probably noticed that the game constantly asks you (the player, not the character) to provide a reason for the character’s actions. There are also moments when you (the player) have to make decisions (all RP options lead to something final) or provide a reason for your character’s actions. The game also lets the player (not the character) know that maybe something is not the best decision.
From a game design perspective, this conversation with Astarion is the game asking the player “Hey, so you’ve been playing this game for quite some time, romanced this pixel character, and did something that was flagged as a big action. This is the final beat for his entire arc and for this romance. Why did you do it? What’s the angle here?” You (the player) are asking the game to be able the say “no reason”.

You are asking the game to prolong a limbo dynamic for your character and not fully close the romance. Which is fine. But clearly, the ascension is flagged as an evil event (probably the highest body count event btw) and you want to add a “neutral” flag. If there is a neutral flag here, it’s only logical to add neutral flags throughout the game for other big, high-stakes moments, which are flagged as an evil act.

They'd only need to add a persuasion check to convince him. He could then agree to wait and note that he doesn't want to wait long (he could approach Tav the next long rest and say that he can't stand the suspense and wants them to decide already) or outright say they have a day to decide. Then the romance scene could stay as it is without any modifications. There could also be a very difficult persuasion check to ask him to wait till the worm problem is over and he could simply offer a night of passion without the bite (it would be the same scene just cut shorter). You wouldn't have the conversation about being turned but he could still say all the other stuff he normally does in there (talking about his new powers, what's next for him, etc). You could then ask him to turn you in the epilogue like you can already and he'd say the same thing: 'I thought you'd never ask.'
I don't think it would be that hard to implement.


But that's the problem, the game is not asking us why we did it. It's assuming we did for a) or b). It assumes you only have shallow, selfish reasons.


We are asking the game to be able to say more things, all of them telling him we did it because we love him and care about him and want to enjoy our time with him, not that we only lust after him and his powers.


No one's asking for any limbo dynamic? I'm not sure what you're talking about. What we are asking for is for the game to be consistent and to give us back the options we had up until that scene.

The writer assumes we are doing this for his body or our selfishness. I think a lot of people do it for other reasons. Because he's asking us to help. We want to help him. Not to teach some kind of morality or lesson, not to get something in return, but just to help. The ritual looks much better to the actions in a friendly relationship just because of this dialogue.