Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Was BG3 overly sexualized?

In 10 years people will roll their eyes at BG3 for making every publisher add badly made sex plots in their game the same way Mass Effect formularized romances are seen today.

I don't think BG3 was overly sexualized, but I think calling it a renaissance is giving it too much credit. It's no brilliant example of sex in video games. BG3's approach to sex is like everything else about the game; pretty good, even gret in a couple spots, but overall really not that special.

God damn! Eclipse my dude thank you, truly. I cant remember when was the last time I laughed this hard because of some crazy shit on the internet.

'Where where you when the dong slider was added to video games!?' LMAO

Listen, you like the game and that's fine. No one can take that away from you but some of you guys really need to relax and stop treating it as a second coming of Jesus.

Revolutionary lol, renaissance lmao.

You mean like how every game has add badly made sex plots in their game already thanks to Dragon Age and Mass Effect?

Or how every game has full nudity already thanks to Witcher series?

Oh wait... None of those things had any major impact on game design...

I find it utterly remarkable that people think that BG3 is somehow going to become the basis for every RPG made from today onwards. When it isn't even the first game to do anything that is supposedly genre defining from it... (It's also not like DA:O, ME2 and Witcher 3 weren't GotY contenders so you can't say that it's because BG3 is well received and other games were niche indie titles)

The only thing that BG3 has done that's truly unique... Is the Bestiality scene. Which is unlikely to be picked up by other studios (Maybe Witcher might, it's not like Geralt hasn't slept with all manner of beasties... Though they tended to take the form of sexy ladies as opposed to animals)

Indeed.

And let's also again point out that the criticism isn't that there is sex in the game. Some people continue to keep saying that, so that they can bash the critics with their strawman while also deflecting from the actual point.

Yup.

I'm still waiting for 'is the argument Person A has a million dollars' answer from a certain someone that keeps posting in this thread.

Oh. Well, fine. I stand corrected.



Again, I've said this a number of times already. I *do*. I avoid that nonsense where I can. And yet, I murder a bunch of Goblins, and everyone in camp is telling me we should have sex. You can avoid a certain shed once you realize it's there, but otherwise, just by exploring you stumble upon a half-ogre in the making. I would avoid the whole Emperor character entirely if I just could for once, but he's always forced on you, and so is the the 'let's bang' option, that too is unavoidable - regardless of what choices you make up to that point. I never went for gay bear sex, but that's what was fed to me prior to the release. Withers even complains if you don't bang at least *one* of your companions. Just having Halsin in the party in Act 3 is like having a fifteen-year-old along for the ride, as all the party banter turns into these lame sex jokes and innuendo. The game constantly reminds you of the fact that there's sex to be had somewhere. I will stick by my original answer here, that I find this immature and unnecesary.

Now, sure there is some good writing in the romances, but that's not what we're debating here. At the same time - that good writing is largely missing from the main plot. I mean, the Emperor and the tadpole is hot garbage throughout, Gortash has no screentime whatsoever, there's no truly satisfying ending except for maybe one or two Origins. I'd much, much rather they didn't include Halsin as a companion and gave us a proper third Act instead. There's too much focus on dick jokes at the detriment of the main plot, in my opinion. Therefore, my answer to the question at hand is:

Yes.

Well said.

I know where I was when the dong slider was added to my video games and I know it was years before anyone had heard of BG3.


Sex in video games?

I'm a little afraid of that link, but just off the top of my head:

Cyberpunk had a dong slider in '20.
Battletech had the separate-gender-from-sex-and-pronouns thing in '17
Dragon Age Origins already had far more complex relationships in 2007, including gay ones. The amount of possible outcomes for the relationship with Alistair alone should convince one that BG3 isn't all that revolutionary in that regard.

Oh I'm not saying you have qualms with sexuality, I'm saying that BG3 putting emphasis on sexuality is no different than Mortal Kombat and God of War putting emphasis on violence in their games. Now I have no idea what "your" personal viewpoint may be on those two games, but I do know that both Mortal Kombat and God of War were given the same sort of critique in the violence spectrum (GoW less so since it came out more recently.) The sort of "Hee Hee, look at us being edgy, we can show someone pull a skeleton out of someone's body." or "Hee Hee, look at us showing Kratos pushing eyeballs out of the socket of a God."

You may view MK and GoW as immature, or you may not. And just like some may find MK or GoW "excessive" when it comes to violence, there will be some that view BG3 exploration of sexuality as excessive. My point isn't to change your mind (as I'm pretty certain most of us in this thread won't buldge in how we view BG3's exploration.) but to illustrate that BG3 is that necessary catalyst to push the envelope for sexuality that MK and GOW were for violence. They're just two opposite ends of the spectrum.

Oh no doubt, but in case you can't tell, the people rolling their eyes are in the minority. Just because you have an issue with Mass Effect romances doesn't change the fact that its impact has been found in almost every rpg game featuring romance going forward (including bg3)

And just because you and six other people on this thread have an issue with BG3 exploration of sexuality doesn't change the fact that thousands resonated with this exploration.

So will people have an issue with BG3 pushing the envelope? Most certainly, but as the saying goes "You can't please everyone."




You can disagree and laugh if you want, but there's a reason it won the golden joysticks and is the front runner for game of the year at the game awards. I definitely don't believe it's any sort of second coming, (it's essentially a bioware game for the new generation) but I do believe in regards to exploring sexuality, it has push the envelope further than any "mainstream" game to date.

I do, but that's beside the point.
Mortal Kombat and God of War are, as their titles suggest *about* grotesque, over-the-top violence. Taking that out, nullifies these games entirely.

Not so much with the gratuitous, immature nonsense in BG3. You can take out the Emperor stuff, the gay bear sex, the incessant corny jokes, Halsin's God-of-Porn complex, the buggering bugbear and the game wouldn't be lesser for it in the slightest. In fact, if they'd have not done that and focused on Act three instead - I'd say the game would be *better* for it.

If it were just an exploration of sexuality, you wouldn't hear me complain. For the bazilionth time, I'm fine with the romances and nudity. I'm more taken aback by the childish stuff I just mentioned above. I find it dumb and cringey.

And you see, BG3 is a sequel to a 25-year-old-game. If you want to play a sequel to that game you played 25 years ago, you're at least 35 years old. And everyone over 35 has been in contact with real humor and real sexuality and doesn't need dick jokes in their fantasy game.


No. Like I said above - God of War and Mortal Kombat are *about* that violence and cannot exist without it. Just like those Anime sex games in Steam's Adult section are about over the top immature sex and cannot exist without that. Those are on opposite sides of the spectrum - and can exist just fine. I couldn't care less. There is exactly the amount of gratuitous, imamture sex and violence across these games as needed, and I avoid these games accordingly.

Yes, and for certain - one of those things is hype. And, the hype is certainly aided by the things that I'm criticising here. But I will stay on the point that the stuff I mention above do not contribute to the quality of the game. And, as good a game as it is on other fronts - mechanics and reactivity and exploration are incredible - the game is very lacking narratively towards the end. I'll stand by the point that I'd rather have that fixed than a hunky sex god companion. Because I'm still not twelve.

That's not true at all, removing the over the top violence would be no different than removing the exploration of sexuality in the BG3, because it's a staple aspect of the game. If you removed those aspects of the game, it would be an entirely different game, because you're removing them exploring different aspects of sexuality. It's just accepted that the violence is tied to GoW and MK because we're more used to violence. But just like how you say you could remove the aspects BG3 you mentioned and make it a possibly better game, a same argument can be made that you can remove the over the top violence of GoW and MK and possibly be an even better game for it. There is no reason a game needs to push eyeballs out of anyone sockets. There's no reason a game should have a skeleton get pulled out of somebody's body. And there's no reason a gnoll should mangle and explode out of a hyena's body. But these are aspects of violence and so therefore, it's accepted. All of that could be removed from a game and you still can and would have a great game.




And for the bazillioth time, I already said I didn't think you had an issue with romance and nudity, but you clearly view their exploration of sexuality as "immature" as those are your words. You find their exploration childish, dumb and cringey. That's entirely your prerogative to view it that way. I and many others clearly do not.


And once again, not true at all. There is nothing about a fighting game or adventure game that dictates it needs to have that level of violence. The developers choose to implement that level of violence to create a staple for itself, just like BG3 decided to push the envelope of sexuality. There is literally no difference between the two. Violence is just given a pass because it's violence. And no, "anime sex games" is literally it's own genre under dating sim. They are not coupled in another genre like adventure, fighting, puzzle, etc. So unless you're saying BG3's pushing of sexuality should be relegated to just dating sims (which it shouldn't and won't), they don't apply here.



Correction: You "believe" they do not contribute to the quality of the game. You can only speak from your opinion as many others fully disagree with your statement. Secondly, being "twelve" has nothing to do with either outlook A twelve year cannot legally buy this game (at least in America) and quite a few of the voice actors (some award winning) favorite aspect of the game was the romance and BG3's boldness in sexual acts. So, let's not go down the superiority complex road and respect that people can have different opinions on the matter.

You don't understand.
The Mortal Kombat & God of War franchises were built *specifically* around that violence. It is the core of what it is. Leisure Suit Larry is about corny sex huimor and revolves around getting laid, and doesn't work without that.


The Baldur's Gate franchise was never about that sort of thing - [although it had some, I suppose; Minsc literally had Boo up his ass in BG2]. And as a sequel then, it feels completely out of place.

And yes, that is *my* opinion. I do not represent many, or any others, nor the actors. Neither do you, I don't understand why you'd bring that up. Transformers was a popular movie, too.

And that is *exactly* the point. Why make it so immature, when that's not your target audience?

No, you don't understand. No one is not saying MK isn't built around violence, but the grotesque violence was and is not necessary. The same is for BG3. BG3 is built around pushing the boundaries regarding sexuality. If you took away the violence of GoW, it would be a very different game for many people, but it would be the same game for many people as well, just not as grotesque. The same applies for BG3, if you took away the aspects you mentioned, it would be a very different game for many people, but it would be the same game for many people.

The primary difference is that you' believe that the violence in MK and GoW is essential to make the game what it truly is, while the aspects you mentioned are ancillary parts to BG3. This I disagree with, as I view the full package of BG3 exploration of sexuality as just as crucial to the make up of the game as the violence is tied to MK and GoW. If you took the aspects you mentioned away, BG3 would be an entirely different game for many people.

And I'm specifically referring to the make up of BG3, not the BG franchise as a whole. No one is stating that the entire franchise was like this, but Larian had a vision for bg3 and pushing the envelope in regards to sexuality was a major part of that vision.

And yes, Transfers was a popular movie, so was Black Panther.


Because many people don't find it immature, including the actors that I referenced in the quote you snippet? Just because you view that content, along with GoW and MK as immature doesn't mean others feel that content is immature.

I see what you're trying to say here, but I still think you're just wrong on this particular point. It's not that you can't remove the over the top violence because they're adventure or fighting games, but you can't remove the violence because of what those SPECIFIC game franchises are. That's their point of differentiation. There are other fighting games out there, but the thing that makes Mortal Kombat unique is that extreme violence. Take it away and you have just a generiic fighting game. Same with God of War. Take away the extreme violence and there's not much that's really special about it. At least the original games. The new games still have that gritty, intense violence as a fundamental part of them, but they do actually think about that violence more, and mete it out with more consideration. Each game was built from the ground up with violence as their focus, thinking about how to step up the violence and make it as impactful as possible at every point. Sex in BG3 isn't anywhere near as central to the identity of the game. If you took sex out of it entirely, then structurally the game really wouldn't feel that different. It's not going to leave the game blank and generic because you still have the breadth of choices, the deep systems and reactivity, the classes and ruleset, etc. Violence is built into every aspect of GoW and MK, sex and sexuality isn't built into every aspect of BG3. I think removing the violence from those games would be more akin to removing BG3s reactivity. That's the part of the game that Larian built everything in consideration of.

I think that if you took away ROMANCE from BG3, that would change the game far more fundamentally than if you took away sex from it, and I believe the two are connected, but not automatically so. Also, I just in general don't think Larian put that much thought into how they approached sexuality in this game. I don't think Larian put that much thought into a lot of stuff they put into the game. They seem to have a hard time saying no to ideas, and on every level of the game, they shoved stuff in because they thought it was cool without really considering if it would be an actual benefit.

Yes it is. You can take it out, and end up with Street Fighter. Take more out, and end up with IK+ . The whole game is literally styled after the over-the-top action movies of the era, hells - the main character was even modeled after Jean Claude Van Damme, signature kicks and all. It is part of the identity of the brand - which at the time was just the game, of course.


Look, pushing boundaries... Just like 'exploring sexuality' ... That sounds kind of artsy and new. And there are certainly instances in this game where sex is used as a functional tool for storytelling.
But buggering bugbears isn't that, really. I mean, come on. It's a cheap, immature joke. Tentacle Porn Achievement? Gay Bear Sex? All the cheap banter jokes that a 15-year-old would make... That has nothing to do with 'exploring sexuality' and 'pushing boundaries'. It just doesn't.

You can disagree, you can tell me actors can disagree - but unless you come with something substantial other than saying 'it's pushing a boundary' or other , you'll not convince me. You'll have to tell me how that stuff actually adds something, or how it works as a functional storytelling device. All I see is intended shock value, and I don't necesarily see a boundary that needed pushing, either. Again, I played Leisure Suit Larry in 1989.


I don't know, I doubt it, but I've only seen marketing. I can't comment fairly.


No. That's jsut the thing. It's an adventure game with whole bunch of things to explore and stories to tell. Take away the bugbears and no one will notice [on a first playthrough, obviously], same with banging the Emperor - that one should probably not even be there, that whole scene is just a remnant from when Daisy was something romanceable - it makes no sense in the current campaign, Halsin's Sex-God comments, etc. No one would miss it, because it is all just fluff. Fluff that's in your face. It doesn't change the core of the game.

I just answered this, but yes.



Fine. WHY? and HOW? Please. Enlighten me. Because I cannot put the bugbears and the bear sex in that context.

Yes, yes... pushing the envelope.

Exactly. That doesn't make it artful or even good, just cheap laughs and fancy colors onscreen.

But that's not how it works in a debate. I say what I think, you say what you think. 'Lots of people like it' is not an argument, you can't speak for 'lots of people'. Also, let's face it. Lots of people think the Earth is flat, that doesn't make it flat.

It's a perfectly good website - no malware and it has far better performance and features than this forum (and its had them for a least 6 years). Oh, and there are a few DA images in there.

A website has better performance than this forum by merely existing, lol.

Well I'm not surprised that you find my viewpoint wrong, because as stated, violence is viewed to be much more intrinsically linked and inseparable than sexuality, but to say it can't be removed is completely false. Does removing the over the top violence change the characters? No. Does it change the story? No. Does it change the combo and blocking system? No. The only thing the over the top violence does in MK is give you fatalities and xray moves. That's it. The same with GoW. You removed the over the top graphics, you're still have the exact same award winning narration, award winning soundtrack, award winning voice acting, and top tier combat, just without the grotesque finishers to give that brutal edge. And noticed how the sexualization is called out for BG3, but no one has address how BG3 goes into the grotesque violence area as well.

And yes, the romance and sexuality aspect of the game is every bit as central to BG3. You and others may not believe so, but there's a reason why one of the most talked about fixes requested in this game is fixes for and more hugs and kisses.

This conversation just highlights the conclusion that violence is viewed as much more necessary than sexuality, hell, I think I even remember reading about this in psychology class. I have to look it up.