Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Things to improve for Wyll

Morally good doesn't mean much if he gets us killed in goblin camp because he gets overexcited at seeing priestess Gut. And this is something I would like to be able to address with him in some way. If only to tell him that yes, we will deal with the goblin leaders, but in a way that makes sure we survive.

I think Minthara would disagree with you on who gets the least attention.

I mean, do you remember the times, when Ajantis or Keldorn just would rush headfirst into confrontations, our pcs planned on solving with deception? That is the downside with lawful good characters and it is ok. On the otehr hand, Astarion disapproves of the pettiest stuff - two sides of a coin.

And I'm not saying he shouldn't be like this, it makes sense for him. But he clearly really wants to deal with the goblins, so being able to talk with him about it would also make sense. And give him content.

Astarion's having the time of his life being able to express his opinion without earning himself days of torture.

And they really could be two sides of a coin. One is selfish and seeks to survive, the other is technically heroic and puts others above himself, but the game won't let them clash because it doesn't do relationships between companions.

There should be more doialogue options for the companions in general and between the companions. At least I can somewhat let Astarion know, that I looked through his insincere seduction attempt , if I make the insight check. Stuff like that we need more often.
And yeah, I don't mean, we shouldn't be able to tell Wyll, how we want to deal with the goblins, just that it makes sense, that he is head on in. I would also like for example to tell Astarion to stfu when deling with Yurgir and trying to get him to kill himself , while Astarion stands in the background and whines the whole time, because he thinks, I would let Yurgirs live.
I think, it is handled well with LAe'zel in the gith creche, where you can tell her to not be too trustful and pointing at the different encounters (patrol, doctor etc.) we had. And you even get approval for that.

I just remembered something I really liked about Wyll in the epilogue. When you free him but unfortunately could not save Karlach (because you are a poor Vampire spawn) he'll tell you of his recent exploits. They are nice little adventure stories and I got the impression he had been up to a lot in the past months.

Since he is an experienced monster hunter, it would be cool if he give you tactical advise in certain situations or just lore bits about certain creatures - just like Gale will usually help you solve any logic or magic puzzles and you can Karlach about killing devils at some point. I have never had Wyll with me in the Goblin camp but rushing in does sound more lawful-stupid than lawful-good to me and also marks someone as a poor teamplayer. Forcing you into a dialogue like with Lae'zel when she is really fed up with you not visiting the Creche, sounds like a better option because it feels like you are doing something with the character.

I wouldn't label Wyll as lawful good to begin with. Chaotic Good, certainly - he goes whichever way the wind blows, so long as it's not obviously evil. I mean, and signing on with Mizora is a really chaotic act.

I actually like him charging the Gobbos, haven't seen him do that since EA and had all but forgotten about it. But at the very least, he has agency in that moment. That's what he needs, I think. The thing about Wyll I cannot stand is, that he never really has an opinion on things, he just goes along with whatever I say and is fine with it. I can literally do his entire quest without him present [pre patch, that is, maybe now is different].

In short - re-write him completely. Preferably, removing the father issues. In a grown-up man who's been through hell and back (literally), it looks pathetic.

Oh, and while you are on it, please, for the love of all gods, either change the colour of his stone eye or change the name of the stone. In which universe "bloodstone" is light blue? Definitely not in our, where it is - as the name states! - reddish-black. Call it "angel blood" if you need that "blood" part but not "bloodstone".

Sorry, very personal pet-peeve of mine.


P.S. By the way, there is a scene where Wyll introduces himself as duke's son to a guard in BG and gets the answer "Yea, right. You look like a distorted tiefling. Be gone."

I don't agree with this at all. I think that Wyll, as currently written, is pretty well-adjusted concerning his father. Some people have actually complained that he shouldn't forgive his father (or, rather, say there's nothing to forgive), so clearly the writers can't please everyone.

I said nothing about forgiveness. I say "Remove the subject completely". It does not fit the "Big Hero theme" he goes by. It is even worse than SH's serious contemplation of killing her parents because her wrist hurts. But this is a different matter. The whole idea - beginning with invisible to anyone but Wyll cult of the dragon and ending with Duke being angry... for what exactly? That Mizora is following Wyll around? - is ridiculous and makes poor guy, well, pathetic.

Re-write him!

He had a fall out with his father and has a chance to reconnect. That is a total reliable thing. This is not pathetic at all. The pact with Mizora is ok for me too - maybe explain a bit more, why she wanted Wyll as her walrock so badly, but other than that, it is ok.

Oooh. The epilogue. I wonder what he says if you convince him to turn politician... oh I am so going to try this...


There are different versions? What changes?

Right? These epilogues are so detailed. I was pleasantly shocked that the letter Human-Gale gets from Elminster not only registers which path in life Gale has taken, but also comments on one of them as an unusual choice. It felt like the game registering the character development I had made up in my mind.


I also don't think Wyll's story is pathetic, just that he doesn't get much say in it.

And again, not my point. The pact itself is fine, Mizora is fine. But the reasons for anything happening in his story are plainly wrong (I know, I sound harsh and uncompromising but they are!).

The whole Tiamat thing is a big complex interesting campaign in DnD. It is not a sudden event when a few cultists quickly assembled and summoned a goddess with no one noticing. The way it is presented here IS ridiculous, it is not how the summoning gods in DnD works. Makes the whole premise a cheap excuse for writing OR turns Wyll into an incredibly naive idiot who bought a clear ruse for a truth.

"Fall out with his father" is presented as "daddy issues of a little kid". From the moment Duke is mentioned Wyll constantly talks only about him, quotes him all the time, and cries about him. It is far beyond respect, it is needy and clingy. Good for a little boy, good for a teenager but not for a ground-up independent man, for a hero. It makes Wyll immature. It takes away from his heroic life. It makes him look weak. At this point, Wyll's father is a more attractive romantic option. At least he is an adult.

I don't think, his father issues are anything liek you describe, sorry. He hasn't seen his father for a while, did leave him on a bad note and now his father is in danger. Of all the things, that can be critizised, this is not one. You can have a heroic independant life and still be worried about your parents. Maybe the Tiamat thing was a ruse by Mizora - Wyll wouldn't know and Mizora wouldn't tell. I don't see a problem.

The letters are just brilliant. I sure hope we get one from Wyll's dad which comments on all the various ways he can turn out. Can't wait to see.

You asked what can be done to make Wyll more popular. This is what I think would help. Well, it's not much help - "re-write everything" - but these are my problems with him. Do not think I am unique, there can be more people with such a view.

You certainly can be an independent heroic person and care about your parents. But Wyll's story is all about that worry. There is no heroic independent Wyll in the game with a grand life-changing quest. Only a boy worrying about his dad's approval. And even in this regard, he does nothing interesting and worthy of note. He is not a hero.

They talk about a dashing warlock but present a softly-spoken priest of a peaceful benevolent god. Nothing wrong with either of the concepts but they do not mix well. The result is so contrived it is hard to deal with.

I don't think, he needs a rewrite, he needs more content. People will always go for the flashy characters and not the morally good. Maybe give some examples of what you would like Wyll to do. 'Re-write everything' is not helpful. That is, what I would write for Halsin (better write him out), but that is not really helping. I'm not vibing with Halsin, so I have no idea, what to do with him, maybe it is the same with you and Wyll?

I am not sure if it's the flashy that is important, it's more the relatable, in my opinion. Whether it is because you know the feeling yourself or can just empathise with the problem without necessarily having made the same experiences. Though, maybe it's just me. In Wyll's case, I am not even really sure what his problem is. To me it seems to be more an external one, than some internal battle he has to overcome. In Halsin's case I would say, that he lacks stuff to do as well in Act3 but I kind of get it. He spend the last 100 years trying to fix a problem he feels responsible for, which has both claimed a good friend of his and the inspiration for becoming a druid. In Act 3 he is basically looking for a new purpose and finds it in the end, but he unfortunately resolves it off screen, which is not very helpful. (I really thought he or Jaheira would have some interaction with that little tree.)

I couldn't disagree more. To me, Wyll is one of the strongest and most upstanding characters in the game, and incredibly worth of respect. He has taken on the lessons he received from his father and made them his own. Wyll spent seven years helping ordinary people around the Sword Coast because it was the right thing to do, not to win his father's affection or respect. He didn't obsess about trying to make his father understand why he took on a warlock pact: he made one effort to explain, and then set it aside when it become clear that Mizora was blocking him from showing the full truth. He then went on to find his own path as a folk hero. Maybe this wasn't "grand," but I think that's part of the point. Wyll doesn't need to be grand, he's okay helping out in humble ways.

It is natural that Wyll became more focused around his father when his father was in danger. Moving on from his previous life doesn't mean that he can't still want his father to be safe and well. Wyll has plenty of things to say about lots of subjects that aren't his father.

There is no point continually changing Wyll in a misguided effort to make him "more popular." He was already rewritten once. Different people will like different characters more or less. Let the people who currently like Wyll continue liking him. Those who like other characters more than him can keep liking those characters. (This is quite aside from the dubiousness of doing a full re-write of a character post-release. This isn't early access anymore. This is a time when adding more options is fine, but doing anything more than tweaks for the content we've already got is questionable.)

Well, on that note. I usually give Larian a lot of slack on their writing - but in this instance they rather nailed it:
They wrote the companions to their stats [except Halsin].

Wyll isn't physically strong. He is not smart, he is not very wise. Yet, he has heart, which translates into a lot of personality. Not being smart nor wise, he naturally makes poor decisions and doesso in dealing with Mizora.

Now, this is turn may naturally result into my personal gripe - the fact that he has no agency over his own story - he leaves it up to the player entirely. This too, is kind of fair - He doesn't quite trust his own judgment.