Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Things to improve for Wyll

Well, on that note. I usually give Larian a lot of slack on their writing - but in this instance they rather nailed it:
They wrote the companions to their stats [except Halsin].

Wyll isn't physically strong. He is not smart, he is not very wise. Yet, he has heart, which translates into a lot of personality. Not being smart nor wise, he naturally makes poor decisions and doesso in dealing with Mizora.

Now, this is turn may naturally result into my personal gripe - the fact that he has no agency over his own story - he leaves it up to the player entirely. This too, is kind of fair - He doesn't quite trust his own judgment.

Wow, they made up for Wyll's lack of content in the rest of the game by giving him lots to say at the end (at least as a duke)! I love it. Gonna go start another Wyll-mance run.

Well, on that note. I usually give Larian a lot of slack on their writing - but in this instance they rather nailed it:
They wrote the companions to their stats [except Halsin].

Wyll isn't physically strong. He is not smart, he is not very wise. Yet, he has heart, which translates into a lot of personality. Not being smart nor wise, he naturally makes poor decisions and doesso in dealing with Mizora.

Now, this is turn may naturally result into my personal gripe - the fact that he has no agency over his own story - he leaves it up to the player entirely. This too, is kind of fair - He doesn't quite trust his own judgment.

Free from Mizora Blade of Avernus without Karlach also has a lot to say. If you have both him and Karlach they elaborate on each other's narrations. I wonder if the writers tried to keep a common narrative logic in mind for the stories. For example, I noticed that when Friend-Astarion tells you about his life, he comments how the shift to nocturnal life was hard for him at first. When I choose the adventuring lifestyle for Origin-Astarion with romanced Gale, Gale also comments how it took some time to get settled into their new life together but that it was worth it in the end.

Not going to argue with you as I do know the pain of liking a companion (romance-able one) that others "don't get". When you see the depths and nuances in every word, gesture and face expression, while others are indifferent to all of these at best. This is my turn to "don't get". My deepest apologies if I caused you pain over it.



No, not helpful at all, absolutely agree. Probably you are right and it is the same thing as with you and Halsin. (Funny thing: I misread your answer first and wanted to enthusiastically agree, that yes, let's give a lot of Wyll's lines to Halsin, it will be perfect!) Or maybe I had too high expectations (I imagined the paladin from DnD movie, yet Wyll proved to be nothing like that character). And though I do have ideas about how he could be made better, the changes are too dramatic, practically a re-write anyway. As he is now, a bit more agency and a little less lore-absurdity would help but I doubt we will see either.

Tbh, the lore absurdity I have more with the whole Emperor storyline, especially the reveal,and Astarion, because vampires spawns are just totally different in DnD and it doesn't sit well with me. Wyll is ok for me in that regard.

I just want more content for him, that would maybe solve both of our problems. For me, Wyll could actually the most important character in act 3 with his ties to nobility, but as it is, he gets sidelined, while ( sorry to bring him up again vampire fans) Astarion, whose story is totally unimportant for the main plot, gets a lot of screen time, so to speak.
For you, more content and dialogue could let him see as being more independent.

I feel the possible importance of Wyll for the plot depends on whether you are more focused on the mundane angle of political corruption or on the more divine angle of taking down one's gods and masters - though arguably, Shadowheart and Astarion sit on the crossroads of both due to Cazador/Lodstarion having everything in place to take over the city from the shadows and the Sharans already pilfering from the nobility. For me, the whole political angle in general felt a little flat. I mean you can get Cazador's complete blackmail ledger but I haven't noticed, that you can actually do anything with it or can you? Everyone tells you how important Duke Ravenguard is, but the only reason I ever bothered to save him, was because he is Wyll's dad.

Nothing. But it's not a secret by now that Cazador originally was supposed to have a bigger role.


I kinda love it. In a "this is so ridiculous" way. Everyone keeps telling you the city depends on him, but whatever you choose to do with him changes nothing. The narrator doesn't even mention in the end that maybe you should have saved him if you didn't.

The whole end narration is charmingly ironic. It tells you that "you are the heroes of Baldur's Gate" while you see the common people of Baldur's Gate taking care of their city without anyone's help or guidance and - judging from all the epilogue material and romance conversations after the dock - no one in my "hero group" seemed to be even remotely interested in claiming the victory either. They all seemed pretty eager to just get on with their new lives.

Cazador would have been more involved with the whole plot , if the upper city had made it into the game, there were datamined voicelines with Cazador.
As it is, Astarion has no ties whatsoever to the main plot. Wyll should have, giving his background, but hasn't enough.
I would have love a mention of Duke Ravengard in the epilogue, that the city is more stable, when he is alive or Will became his successor.
The Sharrans are a bit of a special case imo. I mean their endgoal is destruction of everything that exists and they operate from the shadows, but depending on decisions, they can at least become allies in the final battle, if you play an evil character. I don't think, that is possible with Cazador?

I'd actually prefer them all to be less involved with the plot. Now it can get a little exhausting. But it's a matter of personal preference. For Wyll they could have explained his lack of involvement with the fact that he hasn't been home in a while and he's not exactly welcome there. But neither him nor Florrick ever talk about that. I think.

Cazador only cares about his ritual. Ascended Astarion can be an ally in the final battle if he's not in the active party.



"You are the heroes of Baldur's Gate" and for Durge how much they regret their Act 1 incident. A moment later I'm in my romance epilogue with Ascended Astarion, telling him how I didn't take over the world for Bhaal but I'll do it for him.

I think, Wyll should be more involved with the main plot. Of all the companions it makes the most sense for him and Lae'zel imo.
And yes, Florrick should have more to say to him.

Well i Never Like Hin that Much..
And i Never actually Care too Much to Bring hin becouse i always Play some Mix with Lock.. so i never Need Two Locks in my Party..
its like Halsin, Karlach they never Had a Place in my Game.. always felt Useless to me as companions..
But something i always felt weird its the Lack of importance in his questline..
Just for yu that i Bet did not Know, yu can Do his entire Quest without Hin and the Game actually Make yu the Main of his quest..
Like Yu can go and Save Ravengard without never bring hin into your Camp, Florick Too..
she even Help yu in the Final Battle and send yu Letter in the New Epilogue finally realizing that yu were the Hero the entire Time and she did not Trust yu becouse she is a Morron.

So i always Felt This Weird.. Like the Game did not even Care that he exist haha..
Funny Thing isant it ?!
Like the Dude never was important from the start..
yu can just Be hin as Tav and Durge doing his quest without never knowing hin..haha
(BTW Floric and Revengard never Talk about hin if yu dont Bring hin in your Game he never existed..haha)

All the Other Origins yu can go and do there Quests without Then..
But works really different especially for Lae'zel her quest its a lot cooler when yu do it without her.. no Joke. Facing Vlakith solo its badass.
The only one yu Cant do anything without hin in the Game its Gale Quest.. yu can go and Take the Book but.. no quest.

BTW>> i always like Mizora A Lot more then hin as a Character.. she is really funny made me lought a lot like Astarion lines..haha
i really Wish i could Have her as my Patreon in the Game instead of Having Hin in the game..haha

I took Wyll and Karlach to meet Florrick in Last Light recently and even though they basically told Florrick what Gortash had done to Karlach, she didn't seem to care much. She just explained his position in the city and talked about the Steel Watch. That was odd. I thought, it would maybe worry her a little or have her be more careful when she returns to Baldur's Gate but no.

I told in my Coment..
Its like the Game dosent Care he exists.. he is not important at all.
Get it ?! haha

BTW: yu become the Hero in his Place when yu do his Quest without hin..
its like the Game was Made for yu to go this way with his quest..

Florrick doesn't care. She's kinda stupid overall, like when she believes Mizora. And is it just me, or is she wearing the same type of dress as the brothel owner? Is that what passes for business casual in Baldur's Gate?


This is both sad and funny at the same time.

hauhauhahu
YEAH SHE IS WEARING THE SAME INDEED>> RS
But like i Said.. its so Weird..
Like he never was Nothing from the start..hauhauhauha

So just Skip hin and yu dont Lose nothing.. just the Sex with Mizora
its the only thing yu will Lose..hauhauhauha

(yu can Save ravengard, Florick, take on Ansur and evrything.. yu just Lose Mizora.)

Oh far from it, it's the business casual of this world and beyond. Florrick, the Madame and Mystra all have the same taylor and the same dress. ^^

I happen to like Wyll, so no, I won't skip him. I could do without Mizora though.
That is another pet peeve of mine: tell Mizora to go. I don't want her in my camp. We can kill Raphael easy-peasy, but we can't tell a hell bureaucrat, that she is not welcome?

And yes, there should be content with Florrick and Wyll. And there should be consequences, if you don't have him with you in some instances.

I think the trick to figuring out how to improve Wyll is to figure out what's wrong with Wyll.

For instance, people didn't like Wyll *before* they knew how much connection he had to the plot. So giving him more connection to the overall plot isn't going to change that. (And by "people" not liking Wyll, I mean the vast audience that generally has little interest in his character.)

I think the disconnect with Wyll has to do with his personality, primarily. He's presented as a paladin in character, but a warlock in class. I get what the writers are going for, and I think there's an interesting angle there that just wasn't captured.

We've got a guy, a youth really, who--with the best of intentions--sold his soul to save his city. This basically ruined his life. He lost not only his soul, but also his home and family and position in the city. --so, our question becomes this: what did that do to him? Well... not a lot, or at least not enough in my opinion. He remains the self-sacrificing do-gooder. He didn't change in that moment. He became a hero, traveling the land and righting wrongs.

The thing is, I don't believe Wyll is a hero. I hear him talk about himself as "the Blade," and it feels more cringe than heroic. I don't think he should ever refer to himself as a hero or as the Blade. Let others say those things about him. Even in small doses, it will go further than anything he could say about himself, even if he's just trying to be humble by saying his friends call him Wyll.

*

I'd prefer to see Wyll as quiet, dark, dangerous, and perhaps even severe. A man who knows he is destined for hell. A man who knows he lost everything and has come to terms with it, albeit in a stoic, somber way.

He shouldn't even believe it's possible to break his pact, and if it happens, that moment should be a true arc for him. He shouldn't know what to do with himself. It should fundamentally change him, for the better or worse, depending.

*

Mechanically:

--I want his sending stone eye to have a functioning mechanic of some sort in the game. A bonus to perception. A limited duration devil's sight that's useable once per short rest. Something.

--I want his transformation into a devil to be backed up with some sort of mechanic. If he's a devil in flavor, then he should be a devil in mechanic. The biggest flaw is when a game divorces flavor from mechanic in the name of balance.