Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Things to improve for Wyll

That sort of sounds like Astarion, just without the flamboyance. That's a HARD pass, for me. One brooding cynic is enough.

Also, it's pretty common knowledge that it's possible to break pacts, as everyone knows that it comes at a great cost. Even Tav has the option to recall a child's fairy tale about it when they talk to Mizora.

The rest I agree with though. Especially about the part of the game SHOWING and not him telling us (really only in the beginning of the game) that he's a hero.

Well what i always dont Like in his Character its that he is Too Much Hero boy for my Taste..
I like be a Hero. but hin. Jesus
the dude its like a Cartoon Hero in a Game when evrybody its a Bunch of Crazy misfits..
1 Cleric of Shar, 1 Thief Vampire, 1 Crazy Gith Lady, 1 cursed Mage and 1 Crazy Drow Pala.
(karlach, Halsin dosent count for me.. they are just NPC sorry. haha)

The only others True Hero its Minsc and Jaheira.. But they are not like Hin..
Minsc is to have Fun..
And Jaheira is like The Wise old Master that are teaching yu the path.

The only Good thing i always like in hin was Mizora..
But dosent worth bringing hin just becouse of Her.. sorry i cant its anoying

If i could i would Have her as my Patreon and Scrap hin out of the Game
like i Forget Karlach and Halsin are even companions.. haha
i really treat both of then like NPC..
1 i always kill for the Sword and the other i left in act 2 becouse he is anoying, useless and super creepy
(like yu can Have the Oathbreaker npc in Your Camp, yu could Have only Her as your Patreon.)

gasp The new Wyll kiss scene! It's so nice!

Came here to say this, Selûne's Blessing upon the Search button.

I've abandoned the playthrough, but I did get far enough once to catch this scene and it was jarring. This was as personal a decision as there could be, and Wyll was given no agency in it.

Exactly, for other characters, people are discussing more hug options, while Wyll desperately needs content and content fixed.

Wanted to express my support for this request. Like @fylimar I really like Wyll and I had him in both of my parties. Until we pick up Minsc and boo we don't have any other good aligned companions. This really shows up when Auntie Ethel drops the illusion - Wyll is only one who says "we must save the victim"

But he doesn't really say much. Florick comments on his appearance, the gate guards say he can't really be a Ravenguard but - other than his quest - he's become the Valygar of BG3. "I'm still here"

I wanted to like Wyll when I started the game but I ended up disliking him intensely.
Not the VA, not the moddler or whoever did the mocap but the writing.

I can hear the screams from here but here's why rofl

HOWEVER - those things stand out because he has so little other content to balance it out.

So I agree he needs a bit more in his character arc, he has a lot less than others and its obvious.

Lol all this kinda saves him for me. Almost. Flaws are fun.

Except that face when you reject him. But he takes it much better if you accept his proposal after the dance, but choose someone else over him in the morning. It's funny.

Yes, like someone knew he'd be the prime instrument employed to trigger Astarion's little jealous rant. *coughs* Not that I would ever do such a thing to poor, poor Wyll. ^^;

Sounds like a case of heroics to me. Shame to see it happen.

Yes, this would be a huge improvement. I like Wyll as a character, but the way his questline works was disappointing, your character ends up being the one to make the big decision that should be Wyll's.

The other issue I have is that Wyll's final quest ends up with another emperor cutscene, and as I cannot stand that character, this was really annoying. You don't have the emperor interefering with e.g. Shadowheart's moment at the temple.

Yes, his backstory is actually more over the top than Gale.

Hey, you remember this plot where the evil dragon goddess wanted to open a portal to cross over to our world, a event that engulfed the entire region in war and required several diametrically opposed organisations to band together and the help of famous powerful people to stop it?
Yeah, I did that on my own, you are welcome.

I feel Wyll's moment, is when he decides whether to become a politician or change his hero-monicker. Though I am not sure how that plays out, when his father is not around. It also fell a little flat for me because it never seemed to be much of a decision. Wyll seems to be quite content with his folk hero life and never expresses appreciation for the courtly city life apart from enjoying the dances. I feel they were going for a conflict between paternal expectations and Wyll's own desires but that didn't really work out because horns and pacts aside, he is everything his father wants him to be. He makes daddy proud no matter what.

I'm going to give my opinion, the problem with Wyll is Mizora. At some point, someone decided that what made him "cool" was Mizora, so instead of focusing on improving his writing, they leaned on more Mizora scenes. And she is not even well written, since for her to seem "intelligent", they dump down the writing of all the characters around her. And the one who suffers more is Wyll.

Wyll concept can be interesting. A warlock, with a fiend as a patron that is mostly a good guy who made a mistake. Or maybe someone who decides to pay a high price for what he thinks is right. But to make it work, they should have focused more on his story and tried to tie all its elements in a way that makes sense. So we have his father, who is a great duke and loves him. He grows up "privileged" and loved. Why someone like him would sell his soul? To become a hero? We are told that it is to save the city, but the story about Tiamat doesn't quite work because it is too incredible. In a way, it mirrors the "too convenient" that we can point out with Astarion when he tells us about when Cazador "saved" him by turning him into a spawn.

So let's say that Wyll grows up under a lot of pressure to live up to his father's name. In a political landscape where the wrong move might cause a lot of trouble for his beloved father. So he meets a beautiful lady and she is really nice to him, encourages him to become a hero. And the first time he follows his advice it goes really well, people start calling him the blade, blablabla. He knows there is a lot of "luck" (as in informal intervention that he is not aware of), but then again, he can't refuse to help people now. So he continues, and the nice, hot lady keeps encouraging him and setting him up to go on bigger and more dangerous adventures. Until he takes on something really big, with incredibly high stakes. And the trap closes and Mizora reveals herself and offers a deal at a time when young, naive Wyll feels he can't say no. So young Wyll agrees to a pact without really knowing what he is signing for. But then has several years to wisen up and learn about what that pact means. Except, he doesn't have a copy of the contract and has no clue about what is written.

That is when Tav meets him. He still needs to keep the facade of being a hero because of his father's political position. He wants to break the pact and Mizora has gotten used to treating him as a puppet with no say in things. But she makes a mistake and asks him to haunt Karlach under the wrong idea that she is heartless. But Karlach has an infernal engine as a heart. As a result, she is not heartless, Mizora has broken the pact and expects that Wyll won't realize. Enters Tav (or Wyll) as an origin doing the quest to: recover the contract, gather evidence of Mizora breaking the contract, and basically, go into an infernal trial to fuck Mizora for breaking the pact.

This is my take. I'm sure that there are other ways to do it. But the key is to never, ever, take agency from the player or dumb down characters to try to make another look intelligent. And if you want a character to be cool, you need to focus on that specific character writing, not add another character like Mizora or focus on aesthetics like the horns. Which looks cool, but doesn't compensate for the lack of nuance due to not enough scenes/writing to understand the character.

In my opinion, people would relate more to Wyll if we could see the pressure to live to a "hero's" image. With a father who is a hero and everyone expecting that he becames one too. And how things and fame can get to your head and make you lose perspective. Or a young mistake that you carry for years. Those are real life things that can make you connect. For me that is what is missing with Wyll. And I do like the character. At least when Mizora is not around. XD

To summarize why Mizora and Wyll are the way they are - horny players (this is for Mizora)

Can't really blame them. It clearly worked.

I hate Mizora too - I wish, she hadn't that big of a role.
And sorry, I haven't been able to get online in the last days.

Wyll+Mizora threeesome option when

I know, that is a joke, but don't give the simps ideas.

at this stage i'd be happy if he stops bugging out in Act 1

I agree that "Maryzora" is there so players can have sex with "sexy demon kitten" without consequences. Unlike Raphael's clone (Harleep or something) who either kills you or takes something in the deal. That too is part of why I say Mizora is a Mary Sue terribly written. If she had seduced Wyll to gain his trust and used her sexuality as a way to manipulate the player character to steal the evidence of her breaking the pact or to gain something from him, then by all means, put the sex there. Or if sex with Mizora was the result of winning the trial and making HER a slave that has to please you, then OK, too. A devil can be summoned and bound into service if you learn his/her true name. But the way it is done is lazy. So SHE says that YOU have been looking at her with desire. Which is, basically her writing deciding for your character AGAIN that you MUST find her attractive. Never mind that some people aren't attracted to women or might even be ace. And even among people attracted to women, there would be people who don't find her attractive because, meh, she is boring (surprise, surprise). Yet, you can't call her delusional or turn her down with the same level of rudeness that you can use with Halsin or other characters. Why is that? Because Maryzora. They need to *sell* the idea that she is *hot* when she is bland.

And the fact that your romanced companions let you have sex with her? Another Maryzora moment. Sure, they didn't want to punish the character for having sex with Maryzora when that is her only selling point. But let's be real, for monogamous characters, having sex with Maryzora should mean breaking up. And with Wyll, even if you aren't romancing him, he stops being your friend. Because you have betrayed him. The lack of reaction here is another reason why Wyll's character doesn't work.

Maryzora should be re-writen by someone who doesn't get a fuck about her sexuality. Or that doesn't care if she loses to the player character. Then maybe we would get a decent devil lawyer.