Or the player dialogue in the romantic cut scene before the epilogues. They seem to have unlearned writing flirty banter along the way.
In Araj's case I would really like to be able to tell her off first and then ask Astarion what was wrong with her afterwards. It feels like more natural thing to do than having the discussion about the why's under her nose.
I am also currently stuck with everyone's favourite "I will protect you" again, which feels so heavily tone deaf especially right after the two lovely speeches about partnership and equality.
Or the player dialogue in the romantic cut scene before the epilogues. They seem to have unlearned writing flirty banter along the way.
Reading our response options there is like reading a cheap restaurant menu. Also a missed opportunity for our character to feel a little insecure too, especially as a Durge after Omeluum's told us that the worm is what holds our brain together. And now the worm is gone.
Originally Posted by Anska
In Araj's case I would really like to be able to tell her off first and then ask Astarion what was wrong with her afterwards. It feels like more natural thing to do than having the discussion about the why's under her nose.
It does its job the way it is, it just looks really stupid when we all pretend she can't hear us right here. What I'd like in that scene is to be able to say "it's more the other way around" when she asks if he belongs to me. Just to mess with her and watch the disbelief and disgust on her face if I do it as a female drow.
One of the things that I don't like about the post-Araj convo is that you can't say for example "you mean a great deal to me" and then hug him.
The other one is the really stupid way that lets you keep the romance after pushing him to bite her. I go through it and I honestly can't tell if it's a bug or intentional.
Originally Posted by Anska
I am also currently stuck with everyone's favourite "I will protect you" again, which feels so heavily tone deaf especially right after the two lovely speeches about partnership and equality.
At least he has a good response to that.
There are more places where I'd like to fix the player's dialogue. Like when he's drunk on a bear and talks about power, we can't agree with him that yeah, power lets you do anything.
Reading our response options there is like reading a cheap restaurant menu. Also a missed opportunity for our character to feel a little insecure too, especially as a Durge after Omeluum's told us that the worm is what holds our brain together. And now the worm is gone.
That would be nice, yes. I believe most Origins are in a slightly vulnerable state in the end if they have broken with their previous lives. It might not be as severe as for a Durge but it's still new and maybe a little daunting, so it would be lovely to be able to reflect that.
Originally Posted by t1mekill3r
It does its job the way it is, it just looks really stupid when we all pretend she can't hear us right here. What I'd like in that scene is to be able to say "it's more the other way around" when she asks if he belongs to me. Just to mess with her and watch the disbelief and disgust on her face if I do it as a female drow.
That would be hilarious. Isn't "you mean a great deal to me" and then hug him how the dialogue normally goes? Or did you mean as one action? I never had the heart to make him drink from Araj yet ... apart from on his Origin, where you are not told that her smell is off and you shouldn't drink from her.
Originally Posted by t1mekill3r
There are more places where I'd like to fix the player's dialogue. Like when he's drunk on a bear and talks about power, we can't agree with him that yeah, power lets you do anything.
"You can play evil" my ass.
Ha, I want wizard options in that conversation to discuss the effects of different kinds of blood in annoyingly great detail! All the options are very patronising, you don't even have to play evil to want different options here. It would have been a nice spot for a little bonding if your character also is on the power-hungry side, knows what it is to have lost all power or maybe to just wants to be supportive of him feeling good about himself for once.
Isn't "you mean a great deal to me" and then hug him how the dialogue normally goes?
No, they both come after "I care about you" and are mutually exclusive.
Originally Posted by Anska
Originally Posted by t1mekill3r
There are more places where I'd like to fix the player's dialogue. Like when he's drunk on a bear and talks about power, we can't agree with him that yeah, power lets you do anything.
"You can play evil" my ass.
All the options are very patronising, you don't even have to play evil to want different options here. It would have been a nice spot for a little bonding if your character also is on the power-hungry side, knows what it is to have lost all power or maybe to just wants to be supportive of him feeling good about himself for once.
Change "you" into "us" in the last response option and it's a bonding moment. They were so close lol.
There are more places where I'd like to fix the player's dialogue. Like when he's drunk on a bear and talks about power, we can't agree with him that yeah, power lets you do anything.
We can at least say that we're not powerless and that the tadpole is a useful thing. But I second the idea, I'd like to be able to agree with him and then at the end of that conversation when he says he intends to use the tadpole to actually have dialogue options to say 'I intend to as well', 'I'm not sure about it just yet', or 'I fully intend to be rid of the worm, I don't trust it'. I think the conversation ends too fast there.
I only have a file with his Origin (my other endgame save cuts off before his scene) and nothing has changed there. The Githyanki leave, Wyll looses his powers (or the other way around?), Gale contemplates the crown and while you are discussing what to do next, Astarion starts to feel the effect of the sun and has to run.
I went through it like 10 times trying to trigger the epilogue on a modded save. Nothing's been changed. What they did in Patch 5 was make it so the companions in your active party get priority in speaking up at the docks. So now it's more probable to get his whole "oh I can still walk in the sun, no I can't" thing.
I also found out that sometimes he's the one who will offer to go celebrate, which makes his ending then feel even worse.
Change "you" into "us" in the last response option and it's a bonding moment. They were so close lol.
I forgot to reply to this. This would be extremely cute and I love it.
It could have been a nice "us vs the rest of them" moment for a certain kind of character, and it would also work well with Astarion's "let's take over the cult" Act 2 speech.
I only have a file with his Origin (my other endgame save cuts off before his scene) and nothing has changed there. The Githyanki leave, Wyll looses his powers (or the other way around?), Gale contemplates the crown and while you are discussing what to do next, Astarion starts to feel the effect of the sun and has to run.
Originally Posted by t1mekill3r
I went through it like 10 times trying to trigger the epilogue on a modded save. Nothing's been changed. What they did in Patch 5 was make it so the companions in your active party get priority in speaking up at the docks. So now it's more probable to get his whole "oh I can still walk in the sun, no I can't" thing.
I also found out that sometimes he's the one who will offer to go celebrate, which makes his ending then feel even worse.
Thank you both. It would have been surprising if they would have changed it and no one in this thread said a peep.
It could have been a nice "us vs the rest of them" moment for a certain kind of character, and it would also work well with Astarion's "let's take over the cult" Act 2 speech.
It would have even tonally fit right in with the banter about how the party members taste. Mind if I mention this when I write them a feedback ticket about player dialogue during the holidays?
I love the "take over the cult" speech, especially if the bedtime-musings narration continues it with - among other options - "To wield enough power to threaten a god. That would be quite something ..." Astarion is such a perfectly charming devil on the shoulder in Act 2. But I might have gushed about this at least once before. ^^;
Thank you both. It would have been surprising if they would have changed it and no one in this thread said a peep.
To be honest I wouldn't have checked if not for the epilogue (which I didn't manage to trigger in the end lol), so I would have missed it if any changes were made.
Originally Posted by Anska
It would have even tonally fit right in with the banter about how the party members taste. Mind if I mention this when I write them a feedback ticket about player dialogue during the holidays?
I love the "take over the cult" speech, especially if the bedtime-musings narration continues it with - among other options - "To wield enough power to threaten a god. That would be quite something ..." Astarion is such a perfectly charming devil on the shoulder in Act 2. But I might have gushed about this at least once before. ^^;
Go ahead.
When you play Durge the conversation about what the others would taste like and the one where he asks you how he should kill you feel like some hardcore flirting, so it would fit even more in that case.
And taking over the cult speech is also funny with Durge because
it would be taking it back, not taking over, but at that point you don't know it yet.
I wish Larian knew what friendships are, because Astarion is perfect as both a bro and a lover for someone who's hungry for power. And the friend version of his post-Araj convo is better than the romance one. You can talk about how in some circumstances it's necessary to use all available assets, which is perfect for a manipulative power hungry playthrough, and he says one of my favorite lines of his:
And taking over the cult speech is also funny with Durge because
it would be taking it back, not taking over, but at that point you don't know it yet.
I think, their advice to not play Durge in your first run is really not good.
I had given the game the proper wizard approach and turned over every pebble in Moonrise and later around Orin and Gortash. Some of the things didn't make sense, I wondered if Kressa's pet might be Us at first but that didn't add up. However the moment the butler appeared for my Durge, all the previously gathered information fell into place and ended up being very spoilery.
Originally Posted by t1mekill3r
I wish Larian knew what friendships are, because Astarion is perfect as both a bro and a lover for someone who's hungry for power. And the friend version of his post-Araj convo is better than the romance one. You can talk about how in some circumstances it's necessary to use all available assets, which is perfect for a manipulative power hungry playthrough, and he says one of my favorite lines of his:
Charm is just another spell we cast.
Treating friendship as lesser than romance is a sentiment I generally dislike. In Astarion's case, it's especially bitter because I feel that his romance has an air of being in a relationship with your best friend, but if you do change it to a none-romance something of that best friend feeling gets lost. I watched the friends version of the scene after the Araj encounter on yt and I really liked it too. It has more nuance than the romanced one, which feels like a less heartfelt variation of the other romance scene. For a game that has power as its core theme there could be some more options to talk about it - or even about what being powerless feels like.
Treating friendship as lesser than romance is a sentiment I generally dislike. In Astarion's case, it's especially bitter because I feel that his romance has an air of being in a relationship with your best friend, but if you do change it to a none-romance something of that best friend feeling gets lost.
Exactly this.
Originally Posted by Anska
I watched the friends version of the scene after the Araj encounter on yt and I really liked it too. It has more nuance than the romanced one, which feels like a less heartfelt variation of the other romance scene.
Because that version is about the actual topic and not about "so why did you sleep with me".
Because that version is about the actual topic and not about "so why did you sleep with me".
It would have been nice if you could lead the conversation to the actual topic if you don't focus on the possibly hurt feelings. If you romanced someone else alongside him in Act 1 (or exploited poor Wyll's dance) and he gives you the whole "new true love" speech, the Araj thing also feels slightly redundant to me. It's not heartfelt enough to make the moment of jealousy feel like a step on the way, yet it doesn't add much either.
That's basically where Karlach's special romance treatment in act 1 falls flat for me too. The sex is intended as manipulation and the whole scene is staged in a way that it feels performative while him enjoying the sunshine the morning after feels real - at least that's how it feels to me. He knows beforehand that he can't have sex with Karlach, so why doesn't he come up with a different plan to sink a hook in when Plan A obviously is cannot work? He is usually not that bad at spinning people along or at combining flirtation with manipulation. If you already make all the effort to make a scene specific for one character, you can also really make it work for that one character.
It would have been nice if you could lead the conversation to the actual topic if you don't focus on the possibly hurt feelings. If you romanced someone else alongside him in Act 1 (or exploited poor Wyll's dance) and he gives you the whole "new true love" speech, the Araj thing also feels slightly redundant to me. It's not heartfelt enough to make the moment of jealousy feel like a step on the way, yet it doesn't add much either.
A lot of dialogues in the game are disconnected from each other when they shouldn't be.
Originally Posted by Anska
That's basically where Karlach's special romance treatment in act 1 falls flat for me too. The sex is intended as manipulation and the whole scene is staged in a way that it feels performative while him enjoying the sunshine the morning after feels real - at least that's how it feels to me. He knows beforehand that he can't have sex with Karlach, so why doesn't he come up with a different plan to sink a hook in when Plan A obviously is cannot work? He is usually not that bad at spinning people along or at combining flirtation with manipulation. If you already make all the effort to make a scene specific for one character, you can also really make it work for that one character.
My gripe with it is that the way it is now, it could also work for any custom character. There can be many reasons why someone wouldn't be able to sleep with him that night despite really wanting to, and they could have allowed us to see what happens when he's forced to go off-script without having to play an origin we may not even care about.
It's also funny that they put all this work into their romance when you play as Karlach, but didn't make the ending work if you play as him and romance her.
My gripe with it is that the way it is now, it could also work for any custom character. There can be many reasons why someone wouldn't be able to sleep with him that night despite really wanting to, and they could have allowed us to see what happens when he's forced to go off-script without having to play an origin we may not even care about.
If they hadn't put her name into every second line to make it somehow feel personal. *coughs* Otherwise it would be helpful, yes.
Originally Posted by t1mekill3r
It's also funny that they put all this work into their romance when you play as Karlach, but didn't make the ending work if you play as him and romance her.
Speaking of Karlach and all the extra stuff in her origin. Astarion even has unique lines gushing over Wyll in Karlach playthrough.
I actually find this surprising because in my game he and Wyll were only bickering and dunking on each other. Astarion seems to have the biggest rivalry between the other dudes for Tav's affection and he sounds the most jealous and cynical when saying 'new, true love' when speaking about Wyll and Gale. Then there's the whole Halsin thing. On the other hand he says he'd be ok with a poly arrangement with the ladies but won't do it because they're too fragile (Karlach) or inexperienced (Shadowheart).
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/TtQgj4I.jpg)
On the other hand he says he'd be ok with a poly arrangement with the ladies but won't do it because they're too fragile (Karlach) or inexperienced (Shadowheart).