Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Things to improve for Wyll

I agree that "Maryzora" is there so players can have sex with "sexy demon kitten" without consequences. Unlike Raphael's clone (Harleep or something) who either kills you or takes something in the deal. That too is part of why I say Mizora is a Mary Sue terribly written. If she had seduced Wyll to gain his trust and used her sexuality as a way to manipulate the player character to steal the evidence of her breaking the pact or to gain something from him, then by all means, put the sex there. Or if sex with Mizora was the result of winning the trial and making HER a slave that has to please you, then OK, too. A devil can be summoned and bound into service if you learn his/her true name. But the way it is done is lazy. So SHE says that YOU have been looking at her with desire. Which is, basically her writing deciding for your character AGAIN that you MUST find her attractive. Never mind that some people aren't attracted to women or might even be ace. And even among people attracted to women, there would be people who don't find her attractive because, meh, she is boring (surprise, surprise). Yet, you can't call her delusional or turn her down with the same level of rudeness that you can use with Halsin or other characters. Why is that? Because Maryzora. They need to *sell* the idea that she is *hot* when she is bland.

And the fact that your romanced companions let you have sex with her? Another Maryzora moment. Sure, they didn't want to punish the character for having sex with Maryzora when that is her only selling point. But let's be real, for monogamous characters, having sex with Maryzora should mean breaking up. And with Wyll, even if you aren't romancing him, he stops being your friend. Because you have betrayed him. The lack of reaction here is another reason why Wyll's character doesn't work.

Maryzora should be re-writen by someone who doesn't get a fuck about her sexuality. Or that doesn't care if she loses to the player character. Then maybe we would get a decent devil lawyer.

Maryzora is my favourite word of the day. But, while I never tried it myself, I think Gale, Karlach, Lae'zel and Wyll do break up with you if you cheat on them with Mizora and I think Mizora's whole deal in trying to seduce the PC is that she wants to sow unrest in the camp and ruin relationships. It's less that you must find her desirable, it's more a bait she throws out to see if you bite and are stupid enough not to think about the possible consequences.

It says a lot when discussions about Wyll keep turning into discussions about Mizora.

Not surprising when Larian actually featured her in the "cover art". As if she was another companion!

But imagine how much more spicy he would be! Noone would call him boring after that, maybe...

Regarding Mizora, I think she made more sense in Wyll's old story from EA. He had a darker side to him, and was driven not only by wanting to protect people, but also by revenge. Had Wyll continued on that path, he'd likely become corrupted by her eventually, and turned evil.

In this new story Mizora doesn't make sense anymore; she doesn't get anything out of Wyll using her power for "heroing", so why would she even make a deal with him? The entire 'corruption' angle is reduced to killing Karlach, and the set up is too obvious for someone who is supposed to be part of Zariel's court. She is very easy to outsmart for someone who has centuries of experience trapping people in deals.

On a side note, I was disappointed to find out that the poly relationship isn't the protagonist, Wyll and Karlach.

I can't quote currently for some reason, I geuss, teh next timeout will hit soon.

Netav: yeah, I don't need spicy personally, I like Wyll as he is, he is one of the most easygoing companions and having him, Karlach and Gale in the party is just team chill. No drama queen vampire (honestly, Atsarion is so annyoing sometimes), no constant reminders of how cool Shar is , no githyanki slurs and no sex offender elf druids. When Jaheira is available, I switch Gale out for Jaheira for some more chill.
Don't get me wrong, I like the others (minus Orin food aka Halsin), but it is just nice to go around without the drama queens from time to time.
I just want Wyll to have more content and less maryzora (I keep that word, love it). There is nothing wrong with having a more grounded companion in the group.

Mine as well.

What bugs me a bit about Wyll is that when he is turned into a devil his teeth and ears stay human. He could also use a tail and/or wings.

I wonder if Wyll being chill is a question of personal perception or party combination. I can't have Wyll in my party for long because he seems so eager to offend everyone and has nothing substantial to say, while I find Gale and Lae'zel to be really wholesome together because they have nice, interesting conversations with each other.

As for Maryzora - I really like her little jacket. Even if I am not sure, I want to know who's hair the pelt collar used to be. I don't need the spice, I might take fashion advice.

I think Lae'zel's banter with everyone is among the best. Wyll doesn't know how to talk to people.

Which reminds me. There's banter between him, Astarion, and Gale during which we find out that he doesn't know who Cazador is, while Gale does. Wyll really should know though, he's the grand duke's son and Cazador owns a whole ass palace in the city.

An origin story where he isn't an idiot following whispers in the night but someone who has been trained to be his fathers successor, had court intrigue and plots against his father something he has been aware of his whole life and trained to deal with, but then gets progressively, carefully and subtly enmeshed by Mizora/Zariel over a period of time.
Whichever of them sowing discord between father and son, making Wyll question his fathers decisions more etc, culminating with some trap event that results in his pacting when his father is away.
The pair (or just one) wanting a route in to influencing the inner circles of Baldurs Gate politics (or at least trying to affect his fathers decisions) would be far more interesting and doesn't need Tiamat's dragon cultists. Something playing on his inexperience, but done more cleverly, and centre it around city intrigues and factions.
I don't think he needed a dramatic dragon head appearance to make his story better, just more intelligent content and its not as if any of it gets shown so shouldn't be that hard to do.
It would also go further in explaining why his more experienced father booted him out of the city.
Not just because he has a demon by his side but because said demon was trying to influence things in the city.
The events with Karlach should have Wyll questioning the pact entirely, discussing it with Tav and realising he was fooled, and that his father was right to kick him out of the city all along (which he should have resented somewhat in my scenario, after all it's been his home all his life).

I should feel sympathy that he was caught up in events cleverly tailored to enmesh him instead of wandering off muttering 'What an idiot' to myself, and which sadly colours my thinking of him for my entire playthroughs.
If his origin story was better and his whipped puppy impersonation was removed I would like him a great deal more.

Then tie him in more to the main story in the city somehow, certainly to Florrick.
But give him something of his own to do, doesn't have to be a major plot thing, just something more personal to him and that if he isn't in your party you won't get and I'd suggest it for Act 2 rather than Act 3.
Act 3 already has too much going on all at once and if he is a character you like and have along he does have things he interacts with in Act 3 already, but he has nothing at all in Act 2, total blank canvas there.

I think I would have liked it if Gortash was Wyll's brother. If both brothers had been seduced by devilish influences, and while Wyll rebelled against the dark nature, Gortash welcomed it.

Suddenly, Gortash is removing his father and taking over Baldur's Gate while his brother is away playing hero. Then Wyll's return makes it all more personal.

It also adds an element to the connection between Wyll and Karlach. If she once had a thing for Wyll's brother, but learned over to favor Wyll instead.

It hard to not talk about Mizora in relation to Wyll since so much of his story is tied to her, the two are even forced to share a page in the Art book. I honestly agree that Mizora is the weak point in Wyll's story, possibly due to the re-write. Replaying the game it honestly feels like the story is struggling to come up with reasons to keep her around for as long as they do. Nothing she does really comes off as threatening, nor does her scheming make much sense. She's not even good at bargaining, the more I think about it, as she folds at the slightest bit of pushback and then just proceeds to make shit up anyways.
That's why I suggested before that if they should've either merged her character with Raphael, or tied it into that particular subplot(Mizora needs Wyll to suss out and foil whatever it is Raphael is planning because Zariel yada-yada. Or Wyll is there to lead the player character to his boss so that they can retrieve the crown.)


Wyll flirting with Lae'zel gives just as much insight into the two of the characters personalities as Gale and Lae'zel conversing with one another. One shows that Lae'zel doesn't understand the concept of romance/love(something she eventually comes to find she actually enjoys when you romance her yourself at the end of her Act 3 scene) and that Wyll is a romantic by nature. Just because he strikes out doesn't mean those conversations aren't substantial to either characters. Or well, it use to be, they've removed it since then which is a shame, because it was funny moment between the two, but I guess a lot of people complained about it in feedback.

It's honestly annoying how the only thing Larian seems to listen to when it comes to Wyll character is what to remove, instead of build off of when it comes to his feedback.

Wyll definitely needs more "friends" outside of his shitty dad, and dad shitty friends to interact with in the city. It still feels like a miss opportunity that those two don't know each other. Just like it feels like a weird writing choice that he, a city native who was growing up to become a politician, doesn't know who Cazador, but Gale, who doesn't even live in the city, does. Wyll has a lot of little writing choices in his story.

The topic was chill, not substantial. While Wyll's banter with Lae'zel and the other characters does certainly give insight into him and the others, I find most of his comments needlessly offensive, much more than those of the other companions. So I was wondering if this was a matter of party combination or personal perception. At the very least he seems to have chronic foot-in-mouth disease - but that might be personal perception.

I consider it substantial if ones goal is learning more about your companions. Maybe it is personal perception, I never really considered that Wyll to be offensive, or any of the companions really. More so than anything they were all just really, really catty with one another to the point that they came off more annoying listening to them initially. Shadowheart with Lae'zel at each other throat. Gale joking about Wyll having one eye. Halsin with Shadowheart. Astarion with, well everyone in the group. Thankfully getting through those initial dialogue choices/story beats they become a lot more chiller, sadly they also say a lot less too the farther in you go into the story.

Same for me, I've found Wyll (and Karlach) to be the least offensive origin companions, and they are my favourites to have in the party together with Jaheira. I've found are Astarion and Laezel to be the most offensive, I just don't like their sort of flirting, and both continued even after being told by my character they are 'not interested'.Gale as well, but that was the romance bug that is fixed now, and my last run he seemed ok.

I agree that "Maryzora" is there so players can have sex with "sexy demon kitten" without consequences. Unlike Raphael's clone (Harleep or something) who either kills you or takes something in the deal. That too is part of why I say Mizora is a Mary Sue terribly written. If she had seduced Wyll to gain his trust and used her sexuality as a way to manipulate the player character to steal the evidence of her breaking the pact or to gain something from him, then by all means, put the sex there. Or if sex with Mizora was the result of winning the trial and making HER a slave that has to please you, then OK, too. A devil can be summoned and bound into service if you learn his/her true name. But the way it is done is lazy. So SHE says that YOU have been looking at her with desire. Which is, basically her writing deciding for your character AGAIN that you MUST find her attractive. Never mind that some people aren't attracted to women or might even be ace. And even among people attracted to women, there would be people who don't find her attractive because, meh, she is boring (surprise, surprise). Yet, you can't call her delusional or turn her down with the same level of rudeness that you can use with Halsin or other characters. Why is that? Because Maryzora. They need to *sell* the idea that she is *hot* when she is bland.

And the fact that your romanced companions let you have sex with her? Another Maryzora moment. Sure, they didn't want to punish the character for having sex with Maryzora when that is her only selling point. But let's be real, for monogamous characters, having sex with Maryzora should mean breaking up. And with Wyll, even if you aren't romancing him, he stops being your friend. Because you have betrayed him. The lack of reaction here is another reason why Wyll's character doesn't work.

Maryzora should be re-writen by someone who doesn't get a fuck about her sexuality. Or that doesn't care if she loses to the player character. Then maybe we would get a decent devil lawyer.

Hell yeah, pun intended. But really, it would have made a lot of sense. It would have made a lot of sense that not killing Karlach saved Wyll (because of the breach of contract and her testifying) and that Wyll saved Karlach because he could help her fix the informal heart. Also, way hotter than Maryzora.

Now, more serious. I like many of the ideas that would tie Wyll with Baldurs Gate politics. IT would make a lot of sense that Maryzora was trying to manipulate the politics by trapping Wyll. And if Gortash was involved in that, then it makes even more sense. After all, Gortash sold Karlach to Zarial, who is to say that didn't make another deal where he wanted Maryzora to seduce Wyll, and then use that to undermine his father and take his place in the council. That could force his father to throw Wyll out of the guard and the city, which was part of the original story. So not that difficult to tie in. And as people said, if he was a noble and a hero in Baldurs, then he should have friends.

As for adding Maryzora to his plot, it would make more sense that Maryzora worked for Gortash because they have deals together. So in Act 3, if you want Wyll to remain in your party and keep working for you, you need either to make a deal with Maryzora or beat her at her own game by proving he broke the deal by asking to hunt Karlach. Anyway, right now seems unlikely.

They are sure the most chilled companions around. Wyll, Karlach and Gale or Jaheira are team chill.
Lae'zel never bothered me much: If I told her no, she never tried anything else. And if I started something with another companion, she never even said anything.

Sorry, I wasn't active in my own thread here, but I had more time outs than Halsin sex partners the last few days, so it wasa struggle to even read everything.

I find it a bit sad, that in that IGN interview the interviewer, asked for his favourite Wyll scene, brought up the Maryzora sex scene - that is not even a Wyll scene.

I really hope, they add more content for him, he needs it. And let him make his own decisions. ANd let me kick out Maryzora - there is really no need for her to hang around in camp, she can just puff up, like all the devils in this game do (Hey Raphael, long time no seen), when she has things to say.