Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Opinions on the main plot writing?

Well, there were some Tav dialogues in the EA hinting they were a Bhaalspawn. But it was more subtle, there was no graphic murder scenes, and it was connected to the dream person (who was not the emperor back then). I don't like this new version of dark urge, it is just gore horror, and the reactivity from companions seems all over the place (which is probably because the DU being separate from Tav is a late addition). The weird thing is that there are leftovers from the old story in the game, like some narrator lines referring to using the tadpole.

I think with the rewrite and addition of emperor the different story twists and turns just doesn't hold well together, and some things don't even make sense.

And if Dark Urge could be stripped of the "dark" part (for those of us who will *never* play dark anything).

Isn’t the game pretty dark on its own?

I gave the question some more thought and what I enjoy most about the main story is, when it is more a theme that the other stories are riffing of than an actual story. In Act 2 everything is about gods and the relationships the characters have with them. Lae'zel and Shadowheart have their different brands of deep devotion, Gale and Halsin have more personal relationships with their respective deity, Kethric changes gods according to his needs, Astarion has given up on them and sees faith as a tool of worldly power, etc. I like how they explored theses themes and I like finding about more about the cult and about what happened to Kethric's army. I am not sure if the main story is good but I like the investigative work you can put in to piece everything together.

What I don't like - in general and thus in relationship to the main story - is when my character is singled out as a hero despite always acting in a group. I hate it, when the player dialogue reads "I did heroic thing". Why put so much emphasis on bonding with your companions, when you cannot reflect it in dialogue? It especially bugs me on the origins who on their "good" routes learn the value partnership and teamwork. I know many have complaint that the original ending narration - "you are the heroes of Baldur's Gate" - isn't fitting for "evil" characters. It feels a bit out of place for someone like Gale too, who on his good route sheds his fancy monicker and reclaims his family name (I would have loved an opportunity to do that in his Origin.) and I could imagine a few Durges might share the sentiment, maybe?

Another thing that I didn't like was the whole second Emperor reveal. I have no special sentiment on the topic itself but I strongly dislike how it was handled. I think the fancy, somewhat pretentious little dungeon is cute. It's also very fitting content for poor Wyll (if you drag him along) who hasn't much stuff dedicated to him that he doesn't have to share with other characters, and it feels somehow special in the way it was presented. It could have been fun to actually research why things end up not being as expected, instead of having the Emperor hijack the scene. If you send me out to search for a dragon, I want to focus on the dragon and not on my squid frenemy. I am very done with characters hijacking scenes that aren't their's at this point.

Saying this Emperor was always planned? I can't believe it. This is just PR talk.

From the MtG cards (and leaks) it's pretty clear that the Emperor was the mindflayer big bad. There's a reason you fight him as the (pen)ultimate boss if you side against him.


That pretty much sums it up even for the Original Sins games. I was pretty sceptic when BG3 was announced but honestly the early access was showing some promise. Unfortunately, we may never know.

There's also the elephant in the room that has to be addressed at some point. This game attracted the dating simulator players as can be seen by the forum topics (much like Dragon Age earlier). I think in the future a lot of resources will be put into appeasing them and the overall writing will take a bigger hit. They will also gatekeep and form a guard to any criticism Larian receives. I am hoping for another 5e game from Larian, hopefully NWN3, but they gotta be careful.

My poiont still stands though. He's not really the central antagonist, so there is no central antagonist. The game is just unfocused, forcing all these potential antagonists to share screentime in a way that diminishes all of them. If the game had just picked a lane it could have felt much stronger and more narratively clear. I think the Netherbrain should never have broken free. It should have always remained as a tool for the chosen, and if we were to fight it, it should have been because the chosen sent it to attack us.


We're in agreement on this point. The problem is that the dead three aren't just distant, they're absent. They're not really characters, they're a vague threat. Which is fine, because when that's the case you use the villain's enforcers to serve as the personal antagonists that the audience and the protagonists feel invested in. But the chosen really aren't that.



I think you are absolutely right on the money here. Act 2 is my favorite act potentially, because it feels actually focused. Act one is all about exploring, ostensibly to find a cure but they really pull the rug out of your ability to emotionally invest in the stakes of that search, so you just end up roaming around doing stuff for the sake of doing it. In act 2 though, we have a consistent goal that compliments our exploring the area. We also get a secondary character in the form of Jaheira, who actually has some significance and presence in the story. We have a clear antagonist and purpose, it all comes together.

I'm in total agreement with you there.
You can also read the writing on the wall with the BG3 mods over on Nexus - for every 5e/RAW or QoL mod there are a dozen cosmetic mods. Sadly, I think that this is the fate of RPGs - maybe we should retaliate by joining SIMS fora demanding more tactical combat.

Owlcat are still flying the flag for RPGs - WH40K Rogue Trader is a blast.

The journal always says "we" while the rest of the game says "you alone".

In RT i see 1 issure - bugs. But Story, route, companions - its amazing

I can understand your point of view in a classic fantasy good vs. evil tale. What I meant to say with my example is, that we can join with the baddies, then betray them, or honour alliances with them. The PC can flip-flop at will between evil and good. In the final act however, all the different paths reconverge to 3 or maybe 4 different outcomes. But the freedom you get during the play might be the factor that blurs the identity of the evil arch enemy. Another example is Raphaël. You can fight him, make a deal with him, then go on a quest to destroy the deal. In the end it doesn't change much, but it may blur how Raphaël is perceived.

I kind of like that way (possibility to freely flipflop between good and evil -- I guess my alignment is chaotic neutral :-o), but it does make everything more complicated for the game scenario's. Could we hope that the next game they bring out can find a better way to find an equilibrium between choice and history integrity ? That would be nice.

And I didn't want to deny that there are several terrible plotholes. The emperor and Orpheus are the major factors that make the game scenario feel bad for me. (In addition to several other plotholes, like how did Shadowheart get the artefact, the Ketheric timeline doesn't seem to match up, plus Isobel and Ketheric being arch-enemies, contrary to why Ketheric turned to Shar and Myrkul, and others....)

I don't think anyone doubts Raphael is evil. What makes him confusing is the plot rewrite, not his perception. His act one dialogue (and his the offer to fix it all "like that") is the same as it was in EA. But in EA the dream person and Tav were different, and using the tadpoles actually changed the dream interactions.

Now the original dream person got replaced by the emperor, using the tadpoles changes nothing about how the main plot plays out in the end, and Raphael offers you the hammer, with zero explanation as to how it will fix anything. And indeed, it doesn't.

Oh yes, and talking about Raphaël. The evil 3 stole Karsus' crown from Mephistopheles, but that was cool. No devils were sent to punish them horribly. Then the 3 set a plan in motion that destroys souls. Some Gods begin to get worried, but the arch-devils, who need a constant supply of souls, still don't do anything to retrieve the stolen crown. The only one who wakes up is Raphaël, not to restore the crown to Mephistopheles but to keep it for himself and overthrow all hell's hierarchy. But that doesn't seem to alarm any of the devil-princes either. They silently rely on your party to fix this thing.
(Ah yes, you might get a visit from Mizora. Not to help you though, rather to make the quest more difficult.)

Ah, I think we've misunderstood each other. I'm not talking about vilains and morality. I'm talkinig about structurally, there's no central ANTAGONIST. Regardless of their morality, the game doesn't have a central force that we're against and that's focused on and fully developed. It doesn't matter what morality the PC is, there's no consistently well-developed main enemy. In fact it's worse if you play as evil.

The main antagonists of the game all feel like the smokescreen of the real big bad evil guy's actual scheme, except it never happens. Something so ridiculous as shackling a Elder Brain to brainwash the world to serve you is so beyond the pale that it seems doomed to fail...all according to plan...

Of course each origin character had their own personal antagonist to contend with too, and I guess they were all at one point going to be much more involved with the central plot.

As it is I feel the plot of the cult is like the Doppelganger plot in the first game if there were no Sarevok, with us instead only dealing with his lieutenants.

Yeah, I kept expecting the real mastermind to be exposed after we'd dealt with their lieutenants, and... I guess Larian did sort of try that twist, but it fell flat for me. I didn't find the Netherbrain a compelling villain.

I am truly scared we are going to see the WoW effect play out in CRPGs. BG3 has been "successful" with the "dating simulator" formula. This means every dev and their brother wanting to do a CRPG will throw the same dating approach into their games and put even more focus on it, doubling down as it were, hoping to strike again like BG3 did.

You are jesting but there are a bunch of Sims mods that focus on making the game more challenging. ^^

Apart from that I have the impression that prettifying mods are in general the most on demand "QoL" mods not just for BG3. I do like the game for more than my lovely pixelfriends but I still like to give them nice clothing in pretty colours once I find suitable stuff, it reflects the progress of their journey. Proclaiming your love for that one character and still going out of your way to put him in skimpy clothing at the first opportunity is where it looses me.

You all act, as if the dating sim feeling in crpgs is new. Look at the topics in the BioWare forums and you see the same thing, thirsty people being thirsty.
I do agree though, that there is too much catering for those people. Astarions kiss scene is broken -omg, we have to bring out a hotfix asap. Meanwhile there are so many plotholes to deal with and technical problems to solve ( I heard, that Xbox player have massive problems with saves).
But if you go into the feedback section on Larian Discord, most suggestions are dealing with romance stuff: more kisses, more hugs, different romance ending with Halsin/Astarion/Karlach/Whoever, more sex scenes... It never ends. People even put in their personal fetishes in some suggestions and I think, it is time to step away from the thirst crowd and deal with the story stuff - there are great suggestions here and in other threads and it is worth to take a look at them imo.

So sayeth the Wise Alaundo.

Different teams.

And it doesn't look like they want to fix the plot.