Originally Posted by Anska
I wasn't talking about taking away small moments, but about giving other characters the attention they deserve (hello Wyll, hello Minthara apparently) and maybe about not forcefully taking attention away from them in order to focus it on Karlach, no matter if you care or not. There is a whole thread here about how you are forced to tend to Karlach's engine exploding at the dock but are not allowed to follow Spawn Astarion instead, who has to leave the scene while the other characters are joking about his plight, even if he maybe is your partner.

I fully support giving Wyll and Minthara more moments to shine. Wyll needs to have his moments that are not tied to anyone else, just something that he actively pursues rather than reacts to. It's too late to rewrite his storyline but it's not too late to give him a one-off quest or two about him and for him in a future DLC pack (which I'm 90% sure is coming in some shape or form). More lines are welcome, too.

Minthara needs to be fixed. That's undeniable. The IGN interview made me feel like Larian wasn't too invested in fleshing her out more but they should absolutely involve her more and do so in a working fashion. There's no good reason not to.

As origin characters, Karlach and Wyll have the least amount of lines. They're actively missing for most of the main story. Whatever attention you think Karlach is getting, it's a pittance compared to what the rest are getting. Lae'zel and Shadowheart have robust storylines that are deeply woven into the main story. Astarion has a compelling storyline of his own, although the Spawn ending should be more respectful. Gale has a satisfying conclusion to his storyline. Wyll suffers from his last-ditch rewrites and Karlach suffers from being a late addition. What fans of Karlach want isn't even to catch up. It's only to have a satisfying conclusion to her story. Being told we've done all we could after giving Dammon infernal iron twice is not it.

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As for your last point, there is this majorly depressed wizard, who in Act 3 still does not completely believe that he as a human being is worth very much, thinks that the world would be better off without him and that nobody but his cat - and maybe the PC - care about him. But I guess he talks too much and there is not much attention forced on his situation, so it's maybe easy to miss? Gale really has to be convinced that his life is worth living and what there can be to life, but for him this is merely a jumping off point for his final dilemma. (And he also doesn't have a dungeon, he has a corner in a bookstore. Not complaining, I love the vault. Just saying.)

That's not my last point. My last point was that Karlach's dilemma is about her choosing between dying free on the surface or facing her fears in the hells for a chance to gain her life back. Her understanding of the value of the life that was stolen from her is very different from Gale's understanding of his worth as a person. Karlach doesn't question her worth as a person. Those are two very different internal conflicts.

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I would also deny that Karlach needs to be convinced that her life is worth living, she totally seems to believe that it is. Otherwise the conflict you pointed out, wouldn't even be a conflict. Her thing in the end seems to boil down to not wanting to be alone. She says something along the lines of "when you are with someone you love, it's all a little easier" during the epilogue. There isn't a change in her attitude (being alone was from the start one of the things she hated most about Avernus) there is a change in circumstances, Wyll or Wyll and the PC go a long with her. If you had made her the offer to go along with her earlier, she'd probably would have taken it too. (Or can you? I don't even know anymore. I think I clicked on all hell-adjacent dialogue lines at least once and they have all become muddled up. - I think you can suggest she could stay with Hope?)

I think you're letting your resentment of Karlach get the better of you. She does need to be convinced because every other line of hers regarding her situation is about how her time is running out, how she'd rather die than go back, and how her final wish is to go out protecting the city and the people she cares about. Even the odd mention of a possible life after your adventures together is presented as a silly fantasy.

Loneliness was the most crushing part of Avernus for her, that's true. However, that's not the only reason she didn't want to go back. Her freedom was more important to her than her life before meeting you, which is why she refused the idea of going back even when you offered to go with her before the scene at the pier. Yes, you can offer that and she does reject your offer.

However, after Gortash, her perspective on that starts to change. By the end of the story, she gains the courage to go back because now she values her life enough to risk her freedom again, and she has people by her side who won't abandon her and who firmly believe that she should live on. Otherwise, there's no reason for her to go back.

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Also, this forum desperately needs to visit Dammon .... ^^

I don't think you want that. He'll patch up the servers the first time, but he'll tell you it's no bueno the second time around.

PS: I don't think this in-fighting and resentment between fandoms is healthy. If the next 10 patches were all about Wyll and Minthara, I'd be all for it. They need the attention. Spawn Astarion does, too. Hell, make the DLC all about the githyanki rebellion. But Karlach should get a proper ending to her story, just like everyone else does. There's no reason to tear one character down to prop up another. They're all worthy of attention where attention is needed.

Last edited by Walking Kole; 18/12/23 11:18 PM.