I've run across a video with epilogue outcomes for romanced and dumped spawn Astarion and there is something entirely unique in the one where
he was encouraged to seek out the other spawn in the Underdark and was broken up with afterwards.
In this epilogue he actually shares information with you that you cannot get in any other no ritual path. Scroll to minute 27:20 and he will tell you what happened to Cazador's Palace. It's a shame that none of it is mentioned if you stay together.
Would have been cool to hear about his and Tav's little pyromaniac adventure from the narrator and have them reminisce about it during the party.
I've read that the mortal Tav ending with AA is somewhat lacking but haven't seen mentions of all the details related to it. Now that there is an actual video about it, I will put it here as a source of reference because this outcome needs improvements as well.
Tav who asked to be turned into a vampire but then changed their mind during the conversation with Astarion should either still be mortal and Astarion could potentially be a bit annoyed about it or they should be a vampire already like they are now, but there needs to be a mention (by the narrator in the opening of the scene would make most sense) what exactly happened there and why Tav changed their mind. If Tav never asked to be a vampire and they actually aren't one in that scene then Astarion's dialogue needs to be different.
Also, I'm pleased that it was officially confirmed in an interview that AA is still the original Astarion and that the ritual doesn't magically change who he fundamentally is as a person (other than alters his body and gives him new abilities), and that he simply embraces his darker personality traits once he feels powerful.
I still think/hope something got mixed up in his romanced dialogue at the party in general. You can for example always tell Minsc that you and Astarion are looking for a cure for him, no matter if you chose the ending specific to finding a way to walk in the sun or not. Otoh if you chose the "we should settle down" path, this does not get reflected by the narration at all.
As for bite night. It is weirdly hilarious that if you play as the nuke, you do get to make fun of him a little if he insists on drinking from you despite already knowing about the orb and warning him off, but you still have the option to let him nibble from you in nights to come. Especially since when discussing the vintages of the party members later on, the dialogue was modified and instead of confessing the PC was his first, he is salty and once again complains about how Gale's taste has put him off of his blood.
Speaking of Gale... when he's encouraged to retrieve the crown and Tav is with AA, I find it interesting how at the end of the game
he still seems to have feelings for Tav (if you sorta or fully romanced him but then rejected him) and even tells you that if you ever felt differently, then there would be a place in the heavens for you with him. Then in the epilogue, he is the only one who acknowledges that you're a vampire and tells you that you both have eternity to catch up with each other. He also implies that you might be able to ascend one day if you're ambitious enough. To me it seems like he's still thinking about Tav and maybe one day he could even offer to whisk them away to Elysium if they spent more time together. Rather funny that he's cheeky enough to say such things with Astarion nearby, likely listening in with his heightened senses. And then Astarion says he almost wishes that someone would get in his and your way to have a fun challenge. Like... didn't just Gale make ambiguous suggestions, darling? I also heard that in dev notes it is said that AA is jealous of Gale reaching godhood. Looks like a potential for angst and drama, with Tav also having a way to escape from Astarion if they're being roleplayed as trapped in the relationship.
Another thing, when we kill Cazador without Astarion in the party, and when he tries to dump Tav for doing it, he cannot actually do it (like Tav cannot leave AA). The romance also gets very buggy, especially at the end of the game. Larian please look into it.
Speaking of Gale... when he's encouraged to retrieve the crown and Tav is with AA, I find it interesting how at the end of the game
Oh dear ... I mean, ambition, right? XD My play-throughs are entirely too wholesome for such revelations it seems. Btw ...
Did you snack on God-Gale? Mystra did a poor job curing human Gale, his blood is still poisonous at the party - and Withers brought only wine.
I was also surprised that finding a way to allow Spawnstarion to walk in the sun again turned into curing vampirism. I thought, we'd find him a fancy ring or something less drastic.
Did you snack on God-Gale? Mystra did a poor job curing human Gale, his blood is still poisonous at the party - and Withers brought only wine.
I checked it now. It's still vile. He said 'Careful!' to me.
Originally Posted by Anska
I was also surprised that finding a way to allow Spawnstarion to walk in the sun again turned into curing vampirism. I thought, we'd find him a fancy ring or something less drastic.
It is strange indeed, especially since there is no conversation before that if he'd ever want to cure vampirism. The cure comes out of nowhere. It seems like the majority of epilogue decisions are hand-waved. Just like you cannot settle down with Spawnstarion, you also cannot travel with AA.
Still wondering why Astairon chose to remain a mere Spawn when he could've became a True Vampire just by drinking Cazador's blood, it might not be Ascension, but it's still a step up from a Spawn at least, like a nice middle ground, you know
I was also surprised that finding a way to allow Spawnstarion to walk in the sun again turned into curing vampirism. I thought, we'd find him a fancy ring or something less drastic.
It is strange indeed, especially since there is no conversation before that if he'd ever want to cure vampirism. The cure comes out of nowhere. It seems like the majority of epilogue decisions are hand-waved. Just like you cannot settle down with Spawnstarion, you also cannot travel with AA.
The way Astarion talks about vampirism (my affliction) and that he took Cazador's offer only because the alternative was to bleed to death, made me always think he'd prefer to not be a vampire. At least I cannot recall him ever talking positive about being a vampire. To me, 'find a way to walk in the sun' was a euphemism for 'find a cure for vampirism' all along.
The way Astarion talks about vampirism (my affliction) and that he took Cazador's offer only because the alternative was to bleed to death, made me always think he'd prefer to not be a vampire. At least I cannot recall him ever talking positive about being a vampire. To me, 'find a way to walk in the sun' was a euphemism for 'find a cure for vampirism' all along.
Could be, then again he seems to be pretty ok with it during his friendly epilogue conversation and faced with the astral tadpole, he says that he never wants to change into anything else again either. I don't rule it out, that he might want to cure vampirism but it would be nice to talk about it and hear his opinion on the matter.
Still wondering why Astairon chose to remain a mere Spawn when he could've became a True Vampire just by drinking Cazador's blood, it might not be Ascension, but it's still a step up from a Spawn at least, like a nice middle ground, you know
Cazador would have had to agree to let Astarion drink his blood for Astarion to become a true vampire. Or so Astarion believes. It's entirely possible this is something that is tied to the vampire's control over their spawn (they can't bite their master without permission), and Astarion could've forced it by just draining Cazador, but he doesn't think it would work, and the game doesn't work that way (if you ascend Astarion, let him turn you and then bite him, you won't become a true vampire for example).
So it's not so much that Astarion chose to remain a spawn instead of becoming a true vampire, it's that (he believes, possibly incorrectly) his only choices were remaining a spawn or ascending, and you convinced him not to ascend.
I was also surprised that finding a way to allow Spawnstarion to walk in the sun again turned into curing vampirism. I thought, we'd find him a fancy ring or something less drastic.
It is strange indeed, especially since there is no conversation before that if he'd ever want to cure vampirism. The cure comes out of nowhere. It seems like the majority of epilogue decisions are hand-waved. Just like you cannot settle down with Spawnstarion, you also cannot travel with AA.
The way Astarion talks about vampirism (my affliction) and that he took Cazador's offer only because the alternative was to bleed to death, made me always think he'd prefer to not be a vampire. At least I cannot recall him ever talking positive about being a vampire. To me, 'find a way to walk in the sun' was a euphemism for 'find a cure for vampirism' all along.
The artbook said that he was looking for eternal life. In Jaheira's quest, he will also say that immortality is hard to resist. I think his story should have been a little different. Now it's hard to say whether he wanted it or not.
The artbook said that he was looking for eternal life. In Jaheira's quest, he will also say that immortality is hard to resist. I think his story should have been a little different. Now it's hard to say whether he wanted it or not.
The artbook was created way before BG3 released and a lot was changed or removed back then. Thus I'd have a hard time to see it as canon. Going to do Jaheira's quest again soon, I might have overheard it the first time. Thanks for pointing it out, I'm going to make sure to pay attention.
I'm not saying, my opinion is the only correct way to see it. Just voiced my personal thoughts about it.
I would like if romance with Ascended Astarion to be like this...
They're both happy. I don't know why writers decided to use some kind of image "abusive asshole" and "his victim" While these are card from MTG and it clearly show that DnD vampires can be happy together. I don't understand why the "realism of toxic relationships" didn't work with Minthara, whose relationship is also unhealthy, but it worked with Astarion. It's terribly disappointing.
Cazador would have had to agree to let Astarion drink his blood for Astarion to become a true vampire. Or so Astarion believes. It's entirely possible this is something that is tied to the vampire's control over their spawn (they can't bite their master without permission), and Astarion could've forced it by just draining Cazador, but he doesn't think it would work, and the game doesn't work that way (if you ascend Astarion, let him turn you and then bite him, you won't become a true vampire for example).
It's possible that Astarion doesn't give the player all the information about the change into a true vampire either, only the short, simplified version. Currently, it looks like a plothole and I wish it was addressed and clarified how it works exactly. Since we can only make assumptions, I believe that he does not only need to drink the blood, but also be given permission to actually drink it with the purpose of becoming free and the vampire lord consensually relinquishing control of the spawn in the process of being drained. This would explain why Tav can bite Astarion for sustenance or intimacy but won't stop being a spawn.
I also don't believe he really doesn't remember anything from his life as a mortal - Cazador being there at the moment of his demise is very convenient and although the artbook might be outdated, I still think he was involved in some shady stuff that involved vampires, and just doesn't want Tav to know about it, so they're more willing to help him out and be sympathetic to his cause. But that's a whole different topic altogether.
Originally Posted by Nyloth
I would like if romance with Ascended Astarion to be like this...
They're both happy. I don't know why writers decided to use some kind of image "abusive asshole" and "his victim" While these are card from MTG and it clearly show that DnD vampires can be happy together. I don't understand why the "realism of toxic relationships" didn't work with Minthara, whose relationship is also unhealthy, but it worked with Astarion. It's terribly disappointing.
MTG has some really amazing artwork when it comes to vampires, and it's how I imagine this couple to be like. I don't care that the writers hate AA, I will still roleplay the relationship as happy and harmonic, as much as the game allows me to. My Tav went into it knowing exactly what she was agreeing to, down to sensing his bs about willing to turn her into a true vampire later ('trust me, it doesn't happen' line is quite memorable after all). She gave Astarion everything and he gave her everything she wanted in turn. At least I can call him 'my love' as his spawn now.
The artbook said that he was looking for eternal life. In Jaheira's quest, he will also say that immortality is hard to resist. I think his story should have been a little different. Now it's hard to say whether he wanted it or not.
Personally when it comes to enternal life, Vampirism is still better than the alternative
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