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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Dec 2023
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Honestly, while I gave a long post about things I would like to see to shape a more interesting decision, the one bit of dialogue I wanted most in the finale was just the option to tell the Emperor something like "Let Orpheus speak for himself. If he refuses an alliance, I'll side with you. But if you won't even consider it, I WILL set him free." Similarly, back when he questions us about retrieving the hammer from the House of Hope, I wanted to tell him (with the knowledge I had at the time) "You can keep Orpheus prisoner until after we defeat the elder brain, but as soon as this business is done, I'm releasing him so he can challenge Vlaakith." It frustrated me to no end that so many of our own conversation choices seemed to impose the idea that it was impossible to get these two to cooperate, without even letting us push for it, even if they both ultimately reject the idea.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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@Jewel
These suggestions are fantastic! Yes, it's strange that "you test our alliance" has not effect on the story.
I don't want to hijack the OP's thread with a discussion of the distrust path but I don't want these suggestions to get lost either. Would you consider making a new thread that includes your suggestions?
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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The Emperor wasn't the one who imprisoned Orpheus (that was Vlaakith 1) and a close look at the timeline reveals that really the Emperor has only been manipulating Orpheus for a short while to aid Tav and the companions - in game terms most likely less than a couple of weeks. He didn't even know the prism or Orpheus existed until Gortash sent him off to find it and that's just before the game starts.
Given that I feel Orpheus, who seems to have a pragmatic streak, and in the game as currently shown knows perfectly well that an Illthid is needed could be reasoned with.
Maybe just release the mind control on him so that the Emperor could reassert control quickly and easily and make him feel less vulnerable would be a way to go?
After all Orpheus isn't free until the hammer kills the chains. So the Emperor really does - if we are prepared to go along with it - have the upper hand.
We release the mind control, talk to Orpheus, he apparently understands the situation very quickly in the game as stands so it should be no slower for him to grasp the necessity for having the Emperor along. He can be as nasty about it as he feels necessary but if he truly sees the threat and that the Emperor is part of the solution then he should be able to be convinced (V High Persuasion check) maybe have to have Lae'zel in the party so he can see through her eyes what is going on.
If we pass the check we can release him and he and the Emperor are short term, somewhat uneasy allies, but capable of working together.
If we don't then the game continues with what is currently in place.
# Justice for Astarion
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Dec 2023
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@KillerRabbit
Thanks! I may consider making a thread if I feel like putting together more of my thoughts about the Emperor's storyline / character overall (I certainly have thoughts, but well-formatted thoughts is another matter), but I feel like there's a lot of overlap between "choices that might impact the final Emperor vs Orpheus confrontation" and the options available at the confrontation itself, and I wouldn't want to cause too much repetition at the moment. We'll see.
Last edited by Jewel; 27/12/23 06:32 PM.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2023
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Honestly, while I gave a long post about things I would like to see to shape a more interesting decision, the one bit of dialogue I wanted most in the finale was just the option to tell the Emperor something like "Let Orpheus speak for himself. If he refuses an alliance, I'll side with you. But if you won't even consider it, I WILL set him free." Similarly, back when he questions us about retrieving the hammer from the House of Hope, I wanted to tell him (with the knowledge I had at the time) "You can keep Orpheus prisoner until after we defeat the elder brain, but as soon as this business is done, I'm releasing him so he can challenge Vlaakith." It frustrated me to no end that so many of our own conversation choices seemed to impose the idea that it was impossible to get these two to cooperate, without even letting us push for it, even if they both ultimately reject the idea. Exactly! Though, The Emperor does say at one point that he considers freeing Orpheus after everything is done, but then when the Netherbrain countered the plan and he had to safe us, he decided he needs Orpheus' powers for himself. But Legit, I also thought, why not tell the Emperor to free Orpheus and let us hear him out, and if he decides to attack, we can all immediately jump him together.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2023
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@Jewel
These suggestions are fantastic! Yes, it's strange that "you test our alliance" has not effect on the story.
I don't want to hijack the OP's thread with a discussion of the distrust path but I don't want these suggestions to get lost either. Would you consider making a new thread that includes your suggestions? I don't mind combining our ideas and updating this thread. I just need to learn how to edit better
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Dec 2023
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Honestly, while I gave a long post about things I would like to see to shape a more interesting decision, the one bit of dialogue I wanted most in the finale was just the option to tell the Emperor something like "Let Orpheus speak for himself. If he refuses an alliance, I'll side with you. But if you won't even consider it, I WILL set him free." Similarly, back when he questions us about retrieving the hammer from the House of Hope, I wanted to tell him (with the knowledge I had at the time) "You can keep Orpheus prisoner until after we defeat the elder brain, but as soon as this business is done, I'm releasing him so he can challenge Vlaakith." It frustrated me to no end that so many of our own conversation choices seemed to impose the idea that it was impossible to get these two to cooperate, without even letting us push for it, even if they both ultimately reject the idea. Exactly! Though, The Emperor does say at one point that he considers freeing Orpheus after everything is done, but then when the Netherbrain countered the plan and he had to safe us, he decided he needs Orpheus' powers for himself. But Legit, I also thought, why not tell the Emperor to free Orpheus and let us hear him out, and if he decides to attack, we can all immediately jump him together. Right! And in a second playthrough, I also asked the Emperor at the start of Act 3 "Why not just kill Orpheus and take his power?" since I knew it would come to that later, and he actually said no! He thought it was risky, and that he couldn't be sure that the power would even be transferred! And like, I completely understand that the circumstances change between these moments, making the risk worth taking, but I also feel like that's yet another point in favor of why it would be a better bet for the Emperor if an alliance could be made. It feels like the game knew and then forgot about other angles that might factor into this discussion.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2023
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Honestly, while I gave a long post about things I would like to see to shape a more interesting decision, the one bit of dialogue I wanted most in the finale was just the option to tell the Emperor something like "Let Orpheus speak for himself. If he refuses an alliance, I'll side with you. But if you won't even consider it, I WILL set him free." Similarly, back when he questions us about retrieving the hammer from the House of Hope, I wanted to tell him (with the knowledge I had at the time) "You can keep Orpheus prisoner until after we defeat the elder brain, but as soon as this business is done, I'm releasing him so he can challenge Vlaakith." It frustrated me to no end that so many of our own conversation choices seemed to impose the idea that it was impossible to get these two to cooperate, without even letting us push for it, even if they both ultimately reject the idea. Exactly! Though, The Emperor does say at one point that he considers freeing Orpheus after everything is done, but then when the Netherbrain countered the plan and he had to safe us, he decided he needs Orpheus' powers for himself. But Legit, I also thought, why not tell the Emperor to free Orpheus and let us hear him out, and if he decides to attack, we can all immediately jump him together. Right! And in a second playthrough, I also asked the Emperor at the start of Act 3 "Why not just kill Orpheus and take his power?" since I knew it would come to that later, and he actually said no! He thought it was risky, and that he couldn't be sure that the power would even be transferred! And like, I completely understand that the circumstances change between these moments, making the risk worth taking, but I also feel like that's yet another point in favor of why it would be a better bet for the Emperor if an alliance could be made. It feels like the game knew and then forgot about other angles that might factor into this discussion. Yeah! A lot of things in Act 3 feels rushed. You can see it through other posts made in the threads within this story board forum.
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