Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Honor mode still too easy

Things I would like to see to make this game more difficult. The biggest issue is that there are too many resources, Too much camp supplies, too many scrolls, potions to be found, too much good equipment etc.

- reduce available found food by 70% - Long and short rests should be rationed
- No multiclassing. There is no way to balance multiclassing cheese
- remove the surprise enemy effect.
- (people wont like this one) Remove 50% of itemization. Too many weapons and armor.
- Random enemy attack as you're just exploring the map
- rez only through scrolls
- Reduce found scrolls and potions 60%
- Make pickpocketing very difficult.

I know many will disagree with the above but I hope we get a mode where you need to manage your recourses more and offers more of a challenge.

Honor mode isn't just about making the game harder. It's about having an authentic (honorable) campaign, as if there was a DM who isn't giving you a do over. I'm all for more difficulty options, but Honor mode is fine as it is.

I would also like it to be harder. It's way too easy at the moment.

One thing I would suggest for camp supply cost... make it cost one camp supply bag (40) per member/pet at the camp. Four people at camp? 160. Add in Scratch? Make that 200. Bring in another potential companion? 240. And so on.

There are a lot of increases in difficulty I'd like to see. I just fought everyone in the House of Grief. I didn't take any damage. I primarily used scrolls and cantrips throughout the entire combat. The only spell slot I used was for an insect plague.

I triggered the dialogue first. I didn't use any sneak attacks. I didn't use any barrels. It's just not hard enough.

I agree, besides if OP wants something harder, Custom Mode might give them a challenge, BG3 isn't supposed to play like a souls like game anyways.

Honour Mode was the response to feedback about Tactician being too easy. Thus the inclusion of legendary actions on bosses.

It's still too easy. That's a more than fair bit of feedback for the developers.

Beginning of act 1 is the hardest. Once you start getting gear and weapons it's way too easy. Not once did I not have enough resources for a full rest. What's the point of food.

The beginning of Act 1 I find no issue if you're smart about where you're going, though that's maybe meta gaming. Even so, I would prefer different campaign difficulties that all have toggles.

That makes it so you can't go below a challenge treshold in say, food consumption. But, people who aren't loot goblins aren't forced to pick up everything, either. For the sake of realism, I also wouldn't mind a forced "food decays" option in honour mode.

If you didn't take damage and primarily used cantrips and scrolls.... HOW would limiting long rest make anything more difficult ? You dont even need any rest after that battle. No HP loss, only 1 spell slot lost.

I can't even imagine how you defeat the entire Shar army in HoG using only cantrips. Except maybe if SH can persuade them to change sides and they fight eachother while you're on the sidieline ? But I wouldn't consider that too easy combat. Just clever roleplaying.

Something's not equating here. There must be a more serious inconsistency in the system to allow you to do that, than having frequent long rests. Shouldn't you address the "how was it even possible to do this using only cantrips" ? Why were you invulnerable ? How did cantrips do so much damage to obliterate an army that has outnumbered and outgunned you, and that you should therefore be able to defeat only by clever tactics ?

That would be useful for Larian. And also for players who don't find it too easy.

The long rest suggestion is only one of many that I have.

Regarding the fight, I used *scrolls* and cantrips (along with the insect plague spell slot). The scrolls are a big part of that.

First, my characters have high initiatives, either through dex, items, and/or alert. That goes a long way.

Second, because I'm going first, I completely control the battlefield. Insect plague, sleet storm, etc. My main is a draconic sorcerer (white) who focuses on cold spells. (No, I do *not* use water to create the wet condition.) I have the snowburst ring which allows my ray of frost spells to create ice surfaces under targets. This causes just about all of them to fall prone. When you add in areas that are difficult to move through in large combats like this, it helps you stay in complete control of the entire fight.

A couple of summons (familiar, Us, cambion) block the rear and slow things down there. As I recall, I also kept Astarion in the back with them. His AC is rather high (25) helping him avoid hits. Meanwhile, he's using poison attacks.

I also have two characters in my party with counterspell. That helps keep everything under control, especially if you're selective about which spells you keep enemies from casting.

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Seriously, even streamers who aren't great at the game (in my estimation) are getting through honour mode rather easily. If you get a chance, watch WolfheartFPS's playthrough. While I always watch his channel and appreciate his content, I think his playstyle is--as of late--lackluster and underwhelming, but even he's walking through most of the encounters. Now, in fairness, he long rests *a lot* more than I do, but whatever. The point remains.

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I don't really know how to stream, but I'd be happy to provide some example gameplay of what I do if I can figure it out and if anyone would care to see.

Hello, adventurers
I have few thoughts about difficulty of a game (and why it's often much easier that it should be).
1. Changing the parameters of the roll to initiative greatly simplifies the game.
Dice roll D20 was changed to D4. The consequences of such a change are that my party's members often act one after the other, which, in turn, makes it possible to concentrate attacks on a specific target (and, with a high probability, eliminate it).
How exactly do I choose target? In pen-and-paper campaign I never knows who of my enemies acts next (and this is good thing). But here, via UI I have that data. I always know the order in which my enemies will act. Given the above, I can eliminate the targets before they can take action. It is not necessary to
destroy, there are many spells to control/disable the opponent. With advantage of that meta gaming data, I can use spells much more effectively, that I should.
Ability to see the attributes, states and descriptions of any NPC in greater detail also does a disservice to storytelling as well. Example: who is that charming and suspicious old lady from the Grove, who sells potions? Oh, nice old lady has strength and charisma 18 and constitution 16. Her Health is 112 aaaand her race is fey. In any case, I shouldn't know this.

I think it is possible to hide the order of actions of the enemies on the panel by putting a question mark instead of names and portraits before the move (action) is made.

1.2. Inventories of (almost) all vendors in the game are unlimited source of magic items. Every time you rest, the merchants' inventory is updates and new items appear in it. Infinitely. There is small list of unique items, with does not appear again, but items +1, +2 are infinite. These items are also very cheap. I can understand the appearance of scrolls and potions in the druid grove, they clearly have trained alchemists and guys who can write scrolls, but weapons? Especially when the tiefling blacksmith is killed/gone. Anyway, there is too much magic items, which leads to their devaluation. This kind of magical inflation cannot be a good thing. Imagine how your attitude about scrolls will changes if they are no longer 'respawned' by merchants. Scrolls will become a real treasure. Especially for a wizard, who can learn spells from the scrolls. To sum up: an infinite number of scrolls, potions and magic trinkets greatly simplifies the game.

2. (+ about difficulty) In the D&D E5 (in all editions, truly), every level up increase character's strength dramatically and the difficulty of the battles linked with a difference in levels between the opponents and the party. So, any slowing down exp. progression equal to increasing difficulty.

3. I disagree with the statement that the limiting long rest will make a good service. The game has an extensive system of relationships with companions, which is evolves through dialogues in the camp. All that system will crumble like card house with long rest limitations. It's not possible to change, it's to basic mechanic of game storytelling. And it's not only about companions, it's tool of main plot as well.
But alternative exists - areas with lock down of teleportation runes. Good mechanics, which, for my taste, is used too rarely.

Yes, I'm also not a fan of making honor mode so that it locks people out of content. Limiting long rests severely will just make some classes weaker and others stronger -- which is useless when you can beat the game with 4 characters that barely need long rests to start with. The same goes for taking out multiclassing. The gains aren't worth the losses.

If shop inventory of merchants doesn't reset, initiative is reworked and optimally much harder to win, enemies have additional resistances, spells and immunities I would already be pleasantly surprised. Anymore shouldn't be a default setting, but optional.

Yeah, I'm using the D20 True Initiative mod, that alone makes it a *lot* better.

Scrolls and potions should be limited, imo. Vendors shouldn't replenish every long rest/level up, imo.

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A lot of you might disagree with this, but I think the following would be incredibly beneficial to honour mode:

Remove all rare, very rare, and legendary items from the game. Let the villains use them, if necessary, but do not let the players get access to them.

That would be a phenomenal change. It would force players to use some of the incredibly interesting--albeit less powerful--items. Suddenly, all new builds would become viable.

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I also think many of the feats should be reworked. One day I'd like to make a post about that with some suggestions.

Your build seems pretty OP, are you sure you're not Min-Maxing?,

Because if so, that might be why it's so Easy for you, also your Strategy is pretty well planned, I wouldn't have thought about doing combat that way.

From what I'm seeing in this thread, there are more than enough options for making Honor Mode harder for yourselves if you *actually* want it. Ffs

Such as what? Playing a spellcaster but not casting spells? Fighting without weapons?

What's with all these suggestions that players self-restrict instead of just playing by the rules of the game? Why is it so difficult to get that players want to follow the rules of the game *and* be challenged?

Asking for a harder mode is a more than reasonable suggestion to Larian. Combating that suggestion by saying players should self-restrict and make up their own rules is entirely unnecessary and unhelpful.

I'm now leery of the make it harder mantra. Seems to me that's simply going to narrow the game experience to the same dozen OP builds and tactics.

Self-restrictions work perfectly well for customizing difficulty. You can make your own "hard" mode by selecting the rules you want to apply. Different players have different ideas about what the "actually hard mode" should entail. You think massively increasing the camp supply requirements is a good idea, I think that change would only make the game more tedious. Each to their own. No "official" superhard mode could satisfy everyone. Asking Larian to make 10 separate difficulty options is clearly not reasonable. Why do you even want it? For the bragging rights? Nobody cares. Just make up the rules you find fun and fair, and stick to it.

How can you increase the difficulty of a game that isn't even balanced yet? I can buy most of the best items in the game, I can use Illithid powers with no consequence at all, I can multiclass in or out of a warlock without the burden of a patron and shoot 3 laserbeams per action out of darkness where enemies can't John Cena me or retaliate.

I really think we all want the same thing here, but some of you are jumping too far ahead into adding specific features when it would serve the cause a lot better to join with the other people in asking Larian to balance the game.

Yes, balance....

"Hey Larian! Some of us want all powerful tools nerfed into oblivion, because the players who are less skilled than us may have too much fun with them. We can't have that! Please Larian, destroy the toys of the other kids!"

Dude, nobody is forcing you to multiclass into a warlock!

I don't care if you play on explorer or balanced. I'd like *one* mode that I find challenging. And yes, it's way too easy to long rest. There's a ton of food. There's so much food, in fact, that it defeats the purpose of using it as a resource. Might as well long rest for free because the end result is the same.


I'm just looking for a challenging experience. All I can do is provide feedback and hope the devs can offer a solution.


I don't agree with this at all. Of note, making the game "more difficult" shouldn't be as simple as increasing hit points and bonuses.

Rather, removing excess potions and scrolls, removing rare, very rare, and legendary items, removing tons of food, making it so only certain casters can use certain scrolls, adding in stat restrictions for multiclassing...

...all of those things would shake up builds and tactics while providing more of a challenge to the player.

We all want that *one* mode we personally find challenging, but there are many of us. I don't want any food management at all.


I actually do agree with this one. In my ideal difficulty mode good stuff is scarce, and you don't spend 70% of your play time browsing crates and barrels, just to collect things you will never use.

Eh, I don't mind the food management. I always make sure to use up the Supply Packs before anything else, and on 80/Rest I usually make it to the end of Act 2 before ever eating other food. Currently I'm saving up Garlic to throw at Cazador, see if that does anything.

I just wish there was more to it. As it is, it's 80 when you only met Shadowheart and it's 80 when you have Volo, Selunites, Ravengard and eight party members running around with a dog, a devil and an owlbear in tow.

In any case. I play honour mode and fairly casually at it, to be honest. I try out new things as I progress, I yolo into the fights so as to not suprise anyone and just try to have fun with it. It's fine for me, difficulty wise. I still win all the fights, but occasionally things go *really* wrong, especially if I loose the initiative [D20's, modded] and I have to come up with a plan to survive all of a sudden.

BUt that's also how I like it. As soon as my heroes can't hit a goblin unless they have advantage+oil+precision, then it's no fun for me. Ultimately, I will beat that too but it will be so much button pushing that I don't get excited anymore. So, you resort to cheap lightning builds or stack up on scrolls of Invulnerability Globes and surprise every encounter. I wouldn't play that mode, it'd get boring to me.

I just would like a more restrictive mode. One where only Arcane Casters can use Arcane Scrolls, provided they have the required skills. Or, have Alchemy recipes locked behind an actual Alchemy skill and roll for succes. Where you don't get unlimited high end potions and elixers from every vendor.

Then, D20 Initiative is a *must-have*, the whole mechanics of turned-based combat falls flat on its face when it's 'this team goes before this team'. You either shit on everyone, or everyone shits on you. There is way more tactical thinking when your team is spread across the initiative order; prioritize targets, and so on.

I'd impose multiclass restrictions too, and give the races their ASI distribution back per 5E PHB. That way, you can consider playing a surface Dwarf, for instance, or a Dragonborn and still be awesome.

Please ask and hopefully you get the perfect combat challlenge for you one day. But in the meanwhile the suggestion to add some self-rules might be helpful to make your experience more satisfying.
In another thread you explained to us that you won the "House of Grief" combat using only scrolls and cantrips. Then you suggest Larian restricts the number of scrolls. Don't you see some kind of contradiction here ? Why not select a few scrolls and no more, and send the rest to camp instead of waiting for Larian to fix this for you ?

Also it is highly unlikely that Larian can provide a solution for everyone. Last time I peeked into an ongoing "honour mode" livestream, it went like "we go to this room because that chest contains a very powerful helmet". OK. So buffing and foreknowledge and actively seeking out the most powerful items is probably a thing that many honour mode players want to keep.

I'm quite enjoying it myself. It took me 7 attempts, but I'm finally in act III, at like 90 hrs and it's been pretty good times thus far! Maybe I just wasn't all that spectacular of a player to begin with I suppose, but Honour Mode has given me more than a few exhilarating moments these past weeks. Granted, mostly it has just made do lot more camp management routine type stuff hehe, but it does feel like there's more of a payoff for that tedium when the resources matter a bit more as they do here.

I think I'd get more mileage out of added achievements though, as just a simple way to keep it going that's flexible. So for example, you could have a Nightmare on Elm Street achievement for attempting to stretch out the long rests. Maybe an achievement for never using Withers at all. An achievement for not giving any gifts to merchants for approval, stuff of that sort. Just extra goal posts, but which the game establishes like that. If it's all the equivalent of a high score/personal best, then it's cool when the game acknowledges that stuff and spins it back on the player with a nod.

The initiative tweak could be interesting. Most of the weirdness I find seems to come from having split initiative, so maybe a mode where it's always shared initiative for the active party? That would change the game pretty dramatically though, so maybe a stretch there. The wonky stuff I saw seemed to happen when my characters were joining initiative separately, for things like surprise, but then if you play solo or for speed those things are the bread and butter. So I don't know, probably tough to change. They could add yet another difficulty tier, but I think what they have going here is pretty entertaining, so they should build off the single save for it.

I'm not sure I'd stick it out for a even more punishing game mode, like where it can all just fall apart just down to something like a targeting mistake or movement misclick, one little thing turns on a dime and you lose 40 hrs of gameplay to no real purpose. That's why achievements I think are more entertaining in the long run, cause they can be sprinkled around instead of an all or nothing type approach.

You know, like once I get the golden dice, probably it ceases to matter as much, cause you just get that the once. Whereas if there are different achievements for pathing through the game in different ways, or for adopting different comps or whatever, then that can just keep going. Less zero sum that way, where even a failed run can add to the sense of accomplishment. This allows them to also do some silly stuff, like perhaps reward players for doing random things like farming a thousand goodberries, or heroes feasting 100 night in a row, just so there's some absurdity at both ends of the spectrum hehe. Achievements associated with each companion would be cool, or maybe for approval/disapproval or inspiration, but like keeping a tally on it for each character.

I think if they want us to play it forever, then that's more down to party/camp composition. I think for that they should have more recruitable companions characters, but with a limit on the number of total camp followers. What they have right now with the zombies is ok, but they're more like warding bond support than proper bit players.

One thing I don't need in any difficulty mode is for the Scratch or the Owlbear cub to get permanently off'd once they are brought into the camp. It just means that I never want to bring them into combat, because the risk is too great. As a result they don't really get to have their heroic battle moments or the spotlight in combat during the course of normal play. Like just let us resurrect the dog with scroll. We're high fantasy here. If all our companions can be risen, we should be able to do the same for the pets.

Anyhow, that said, I'm still having a blast! Kept me busy all weekend lol. So nice work there!

Happy boxing day!

I'm in act 3 honor mode. It's still too easy. The fights are ridiculously easy. In most of them I don't take any damage because the enemy is dead before their first turn. The enemy in act 3 needs to be more flexible, not do more damage, but add more surprises, add more hidden enemies and additional support, assassins, more heals, escapes, resurrections, summons etc.

Food is absolutely pointless, but could be a fun game mechanic in honor mode. Scarce food might lead you to hunt animals or monsters, and maybe add in the survival saving throws as food mechanic somehow. Or nature to find berries. Or you have to beg for food if you are broke etc.

Stealing is a joke. I stopped playing for now, waiting for "survival mode".

1) A full-scale fight in House of Grief cannot be won with just cantrips and scrolls - I know it's easy, but let's not overstate it, okay?

2) The fight in HoG is not a good example with which to demonstrate how easy/hard BG3 is. It's a very manageable fight by design.

Why? The only high level potential enemy here is just a level 11 Cleric. All other possible enemies are capped at level 7 - very low levels in Act 3. Except for the level 11 Cleric, not a single enemy here is equipped with magical weapon or armor. They do not have scrolls, potions, special arrows or other throwables. None of them has access to damage-based arcane spells. Unless you defy their unique protection feat and choose to use Radiant damage/spells against them, thereby assisting enemies to kill your own party, you are supposed to have an easy fight here. This is essentially a duel between Shadowheart and her direct rival in the game. Story-wise, everyone else is supposed to be a bystander who may take a side to join the fight. Shadowheart, being a Trickery cleric if not respeced through the game, can take control of the entire battlefield from the start. If the player party is already level 12, the whole fight is practically a walk in the park even on the currently hardest possible difficulty settings.

My first playthrough at HoG: it was on Tactician. Once I examined every NPC here, Shadowheart walked down the stairs for a chat and then fought the entire House of 20 enemies. I chose to tease enemies. To tease them, Shadowheart disarmed 3 enemies and Jaheira disarmed 2 more, though my Dark Urge and Karlach killed 3 (I could have chosen to disarm more, but it was impossible to aim 3+ extra targets so I gave up). To have fun, Jaheira's Dryad laid down a spike field under the feet of that level 11 Cleric. All this was during the very 1st round of combat. Before the fight, I spent 2 spell slots to get 6 skeleton archers. Now, during the first round, 6 skeletons formed a circle around Shadowheart - it was her fight anyway. Shadowheart did not lose a single HP here, though she did receive a permanent curse. What else can I say? No scrolls, no potions, no consumables, no throwables, no tricks, no barrels, no fireballs, no Haste spell... Nobody used anything like that. It was just a 100% tavern brawl between Shadowheart backed by my party of level 11 and a level 11 Cleric with her 19 followers. When Viconia became the only hostile left, I decided to let her remain invisible. As a result, she surprised us with Divine Intervention, killing 3 of my skeleton archers. She then pleaded to Shadowheart for our life by demanding Shadowheart to hand over Shadowheart - definitely a bug. The full-scale brawl was an exciting, fun, very satisfactory experience.

Additionally, Shadowheart can limit the scale of the fight in HoG if she has taken a different story path.



=== My opinion about how to further increase difficulty ===

The difficulty comes from a lot of sources. Ultimately, if you want a challenge, you have to fight higher level enemies.

Why are the Gith patrols difficult for most players to fight? Because you can run into them at a (much) lower level.
Why do you get a clean party wipe, instantly, if you choose to defy a semi-goddess in the game? Because she is a very, very high-level NPC.

So, before Larian Studios decides to "level up" the existing NPCs to challenge you, how about you deliberately under-leveling your party?

That is what I did. Playing on Tactician for 500+ hours and I have not died once yet. On the one hard, what matters most is exploration and having fun. So the easier the game, the better. On the other hand, I think by deliberately under-leveling a bit and staying away from scrolls, potions and frequent resting, I have made the game just harder enough for me to enjoy combat. After all, I now have to be careful and use tactics to avoid damage and stay alive with as little healing as possible (ideally no healing at all). My main characters have never backed down or otherwise avoided violence. We didn't even kneel, though I heeded Lae'zel repeated warnings and avoided a disaster which would have broken my no-death record. Once I have time I'll get my Honour run done.

The natural gradation of the difficulty level in D&D is the difference in levels between antagonists and the party. To slow down the progression of the level ups is an effective and cheap solution from the point of view of development. I have already tested similar mods. It was a good change.

My two cents - this is a slippery slope and Larian shouldn't create a new mode thats even more difficult. There will always emerge a meta game that breaks the mode (or the mode will be rng/impossible/unfun) and there will always be people coming out of the woodwork that claim that the mode is 'too easy' after metagaming it. What makes things worse is that save scumming is trivial, even in honor mode and people certainly are abusing it.

Instead, I think there should be more options in custom mode to make the game more difficult: i.e. toggles for allowing or removing legendary and very rare gear, increased supply requirements, prevention of scrolls being used other than scribing, customizable attack roll penalties, enemy hp buff %s, etc. That way the min maxers can knock themselves out with pushing the limits of the game without Larian wasting their time and resources catering to a miniscule portion of the playerbase.

The game as is is plenty challenging for most players who aren't actively trying to cheese or break it. I'd rather Larian invest their time and energy in fixing act 3 bugs and coming out with DLC or better yet another game than wasting their time on this.

I wish people would stop making this assertion as if they're some sort of authority on the matter. It's simply not true.

ETA: it's one thing to say that you personally find it difficult enough. It's another to claim to speak for all the people who don't find it challenging in the slightest by saying they're "actively trying to cheese or break it." It's both annoying and insulting. It's also just weird. I don't find it challenging, and I'm not interested in cheesing or breaking anything. I've seen plenty of streamers who went into honour mode worried about the difficulty... and then relaxed when they realized it wasn't that difficult.

In short, please stop using the "cheese" players to undermine legitimate feedback.

I'm going to write something extremely controversial, but once the player figures out how different builds and combat scenarios work it's really difficult to make the game harder. And honestly, there is a line when Larian's responsibility stops when it comes to game difficulty.

Most of the suggestions on this thread are things that can be "added" to the game by personalizing everyone's own game style. (restricting rests, not using certain gear and, not min-maxing points etc). If Larian were to add a nightmare difficulty option, it would still be too easy for some.

If you know how all the fights will unfold, all the mechanics of every fight and everything about the game in general, *any* tactics game will be 'easy' because you put 200 hrs into the game and have perfect information. Its not a rral time game where reflexes matter; its a game of tactics and strategy where knowledge determines success, and once you attain knowledgr, of course the game wont be difficult any more. The only way to make the game more 'difficult' would be to add cheapos or rng which are inherently unfun. This is a single player game with fixed encounters and storylines.

I agree with this a 100%. BG3 is almost a puzzle game with some added RNG. Once you know how to "solve" the encounters the challenge is gone, and that is fine. They could increase the role of randomness and tweak some numbers, but that would not fundamentally increase the difficulty, just make things more tedious. Once you know how to kill a 300 HP goblin, you also know how to deal with one that has 1000 HP.

Guys, does anyone know a mod that only allows spellcasters to read/use scrolls?

In a truly strategic, tactical game, there cannot be a universal master key to victory. Tactics is a living process involving the work of the mind, and not the search for exploits in poorly thought-out game mechanics.

If that's what you are looking for, you shouldn't be looking at the single player turn based tactics genre. The flexibility you are looking for wont be found in a game restricted by rpg elements, especially with turn based mechanics. Every rpg suffers from this, including real time ones like dark souls where mechanics or the master key is discovered and then the game can be trivialised to the point where people are speed running it with no gear within a few hours.

I suggest multiplayer games like rts for a more fluid experience. Its possible to simulate optimal human like behavior in tactical games nowadays with montecarlo tree search pruned by neural networks (alphazero), but it requires an ungodly amount of gpu resources for a sufficiently complex game, although admittedly, once the networks are trained, its relatively cheap to execute. However, it hasnt really caught on or been accessible in mainstream gaming yet so i wouldnt hold my breath.

Ha! My friend, such a well-known game as chess is quite suitable for my criteria. As well as good old D&D mechanics, which I dearly love.
I don't need a game that tries to mimic or simulate human behavior. I am speaking of a game, with requires intelligence from the user, not from the emulation processes in the game itself.

You guys just need something equivalent to the "Veteran" difficulty in Call of Duty, or the highest difficulty setting in Elder Scrolls 4 Oblivion. Even the "Insane" difficulty of BG2 is not hard enough, as many have claimed it is too easy.

However, I have never seen/read anyone who is bold enough to claim "Veteran" is easy. And the highest difficulty level of Oblivion (I forgot what it's called - probably not named at all) means, you start the game when any creature can kill you in no more than 2 hits. It also means: if you fight an identical clone of yourself, this difficulty level will make your identical clone do 36 times more damage than you do. Meaning: if you have 150 HP and can do 5 damage, your clone can always kill you in 1 hit. But you will need to hit your clone 31 times to kill it.

Yet, eventually there are players who have beat CoD on Veteran or completed Oblivion on that extremely hard difficulty level.

I guess in order for BG3 to please most players, it can be really hard for developers to figure out a way to make it hard enough to a small number of players without alienating the majority of players. Honor mode is a nice way to go. It's not a technically harder mode minus the spice of legendary actions, but primarily a mode that encourages a honorable run.

No, sorry. But that's how I play it anyway - and big consideration for ftr-EK and rog-AT.

Some of you don't seem to get it, but in these games knowledge is power.
The game is SUPPOSED to go on smoothly if you build your characters well, get good equipment and use their respective capabilities properly.

If you expect a game where even doing all these things properly would translate in having to fight tooth and nail to barely come out on top, you are going to get a game that is either completely frustrant for anyone who doesn't breath D&D all day or heavily reliant on RNG to luck out.
Not sure which one would be worse, either, but neither would be particularly good.

And "I went through this area easily while blowing hundreds of golds in consumable in one sitting" is frankly a laughable flexing.
Even in the tabletop scrolls are supposed to be more valuable than "camping supplies"; something that you try your best to keep aside for direr times (or sell for gold).


That aside, I admit I would be interested in a mode limited to:

- core D&D rules with no "Special Larian cheese on top".
- only mundane items (normal equipment, maybe their +1 and +2 variant unlocked later in second and third act and expensive, debatable if to keep into the game the few special legendaries).
- no (or very limited) consumables.
- no bullshit tadpole powers.
- Maybe fix all the bullshit way the players can manipulate the prices? Currently a Charisma-heavy character with high persuasion is going to play basically a different game from a barbarian with 8 charisma when it comes to shopkeepers... and you get even more ways to affect prices with silly tricks like resetting your level (respec) and gifting crap to the vendors. None of this is particularly entertaining or engaging, but once you learn about how it works, you feel pressured to either leverage the trick or being the sucker who pays everything 3-4 times as much.

... But of course it would need to be stressed to the players that this would not be intended as the ordinary way to play the game, but as a special "challenge" option.

Also, massive thumb down for the suggestion "Let the enemies use special equipment but you can't loot it". That's the worst of both worlds.
Let everyone play by the same rules. Either both the the players and the NPCs can access magic items them OR neither.

From Software's "Souls-like" games aren't as hard as their (inflated) reputation tries to pain them, either.
Most of them become immensely more manageable once people get familiar with the system.
On top of that, these are action games where rapidity of execution/reflexes/eye-hand coordination plays a role. That doesn't even happen in a turn-based tactical.
In a turn-based game if you know what to do you are going to stomp shit. Almost no way around it.

P.S. For what is worth, I keep reading people in other forums that from time to time start whining that the game is "bullshit hard" and super-unfair. Some of them struggle even going past certain fights on Story mode.
Now, OF COURSE I think that's because they lack the knowledge of the systems and they are doing plenty wrong in terms of planning and execution, but this should put things in perspective.

Somewhat ironically, the main complaint top players have about chess is that it devolves to pure memorization at the highest level. Whoever memorizes more at the top level to get a .3 centipawn advantage to convert to a win.

As with all tactics or turn based games, the more familoar you get with patterns and strategies, the easier it will become, even in a game like chess.

It is a very hard game for beginners, mainly because it has an "inverted" difficulty curve. At the beginning you struggle against a few goblins, later you can wipe out a dragon in just one turn. You start out with a very limited set of tools at your disposal, but you get more and more as you level up and find good loot. This makes the game gradually easier, which is not a wise design choice for several reasons.

Exactly. All people have different abilities, whether it's the ability to memorize or the speed of learning: some play better than others. Well, a game with a weaker opponent is obviously not interesting. That's why I suggest adding an additional level of difficulty. One that complies core rules of D&D e5. I can clearly see that many (if not all) changes to the rules from Larian make game much more casual.
And please note, I have never doubted people's ability to learn. Learning always pays off, but this does not mean that the difficulty level should drop to zero if I know system well.

1rst run was in Tactician : "very hard, many reloads"
2nd was in Tactician fully MP : "balanced" (except first area, hard)
3rd was in Honour : "moderate~quite easy" (except first area)

Reason : BG3 is a puzzle we know now the solution, maybe best way to satisfy ultra-hardcore-players is a cursor
to select difficulty from "easy" to "unreachable" (but I hope Larian devs work on far more interesting things atm)

BG3, by its very nature, cannot be genuinely difficult to play.

BG3 is very different from chess. The chess analog for BG3 is NOT applicable here. The difficulty of Chess can go infinitely high, without us changing anything. BG3? No way! BG3 is really just a role-play game, meant to be played by ordinary people for fun.

BG3 is more like high-school math. For those who have never received good education at the high-school level or higher, high-school math can be an impossible subject without getting another chance in their next life. However, for the majority of the human population who have received quality education, especially those who have additionally earned a college degree in math, physics, economics, engineering, etc., high-school math can be way too basic to them.

BG3 is similar: if you don't know much about it, it's so complicated and can be overwhelmingly difficult. However, once you have learned enough, especially after you have "solved" every battle and every quest in the game, you have learned at least one solution in each and every situation. What can still be difficult?

At the high school level, once we have learned enough, we may try out some really hard questions, such as those used in math competitions. However, as long as the questions can be solved at the high school level, given enough time and efforts, most high schoolers should be able to know how to solve those questions. Once they know the solutions, none of the questions can still feel hard.

BG3 is similar: once you have learned enough, you may try harder modes. However, after you have learned enough to beat the game on a higher difficulty level, like this Honor Mode, what can still feel hard?

Just like high-school math is only at the high school level. No matter how hard it can feel, it's not college math. if a high-school math question requires college-level math knowledge, it will be simply dropped completely by all high schools in the world, or only given to most gifted and talented students.

BG3 is similar: the difficulty of BG3 cannot go high beyond a certain limit. If a BG3 quest becomes impossible to handle by ordinary game players, this quest will be either dropped or changed.




That's exactly what happens to players who come back to replay BG3. The player as well as their skills stay the same, the game also stays the same, but the players' perceived difficulty of this game keeps dropping.

How so?


BG3 primarily only involves a test on player knowledge and it is meant for fun (so, there isn't anything beyond the common sense and everyday skills and abilities of most players). It does not involve any test on the players themselves.

To help explain that, let me talk about the "Veteran" mode in Call of Duty again.


"Veteran" of the Call of Duty is not just a test on a player's knowledge. Far more than that. It's, first and foremost a most stressful test on the player's reflex in using their gaming gear. The majority of players in the world are not supposed to be able to handle "Veteran" with ease. It's like running a Marathon under 3 or 4 hours. The majority of the 8 billion human population cannot handle a Marathon in their entire life, let alone completing it under less than a few hours. The same can be said of the "Veteran" mode.

"Honor Mode" remains to be primarily only a test on player knowledge and it's meant for fun too. On the player's part, the game only requires basic skills in using gaming gear to play video games. Given enough time (up to 1000+ hours, if necessary) to explore and practice, the majority of the players should be able to eventually handle the Honor mode with ease. After all, this Honor mode is meant only to relieve players of the burden of saving/reloading. Very little else, other than some "legendary" actions meant to scare off inexperienced players and help marketing this game.



Conclusions:

1) There is no way to logically and factually prove BG3 is difficult to play. Everything required to play this game reasonably well is well within the reach of most game players who have acquired basic gaming skills. To play BG3 well, players only need to find out a solution to each and every quest that they are supposed to deal with in the game. And these solutions, just like solutions for high-school math questions, can be shared among players in the same way as we share human knowledge. If one player can't figure out a solution, they can ask for it from others and then apply it in their own gameplay. As long as it's a good solution, everyone can use the same solution to complete the same quest and beat the same game on whatever difficulty level they choose.

2) Chess is totally different in that it puts up a test directly on the players themselves: their skills, talents, even genius in playing the game. The difficulty of the chess game itself never changes. But to play it well, one has to be really good at it. Although tips and solutions can be shared and taught to a certain extent, those few chess masters, even when blind-folded, have no trouble always figuring out a solution to defeat the majority of chest players on earth.

3) The Veteran mode of certain games also includes a test directly on the players themselves: their skills and reflex in using their gaming gear. The game stays the same and the Veteran mode is the same to all players. Yet, this is a mode supposed to be beyond the (easy) reach of most players on earth. Although tips and tricks can be shared among different players, one has to prove themselves truly good (and better than most) to beat the game on Veteran. They have to be super fast, super accurate while under enormous stress in order to defeat the game on Veteran. On the other hand, there have never been such demanding and stressful requirements on any of BG1, BG2, BG3 players.

The game is very much like chess. There are pieces on a board with movement and abilities. You can use your pieces to defeat the other pieces, or you can be defeated in turn.

The problem isn't the analogy of chess to bg3. The problem is the AI in bg3. If the AI in bg3 could learn and adapt to the players tactics then it would become one of the greatest tactical games in the modern era.

Unfortunately, the AI is static.

This is good analysis. There are limitations to what Larian can do to make Honour mode "harder" and we as players can always voluntarily impose limitations on ourselves to make up for that. I think Larian could do things to better facilitate that, such as making the Honour ruleset available in Custom mode (you can get this by purposefully dying in Honour mode and then continuing, but we shouldn't have to jump through those hoops).

They could also expand the Custom ruleset so players can make it harder. For example, if I could, I would set the Camp Cost multiplier at higher than the maximum allows.

I do agree though about the AI. For every time the AI does something unexpectedly smart, there are at least five more times where it does something stupid, like Misty Step directly into a Wall of Fire or Dash, sprint to a location, then Misty Step back to where they were. This is still happening even after patches even on Honour Mode. So that could definiitely be improved. The AI in D:OS2 was way better.

Let me add to this a bit.

In chess, the AI is designed to win, to beat you. That's the goal.

In BG3, the AI isn't designed to beat you. It's designed for you to win. The only question is "how hard is it supposed to be for you to win?"

When I ask for a harder mode in the game, what I want is a game where the rules are the same for both sides and the AI is designed to beat you, to win. That way I'm going up against a real challenge.

There are some cool Mods to Make the Game Harder already..
Give a Try really nice stuff.
Larian could even Learn something from then.

So far the biggest issue for me in Honour mode has been that bosses simply don't have enough HP. On my current run I've killed two bosses (Gith inquisitor and Gortash) in one turn and none of the others have lasted much longer. The legendary actions don't really matter much if the bosses don't last long enough to use them. Combined damage output of a decent 4 member party per turn is simply much greater than what the bosses can dish out on their own turn and by endgame the mooks with them are too weak to balance the scales. All of which makes the action economy favour the player.

Now, I don't want bosses to be able to cause 300 HP worth of damage per turn, as that simply wouldn't be much fun, but if they can't keep up with a full party on damage output you could compensate for that with durability. Grym is one of my favourite bosses in the game because he's durable enough that the fight against him becomes a multi-turn test of endurance and manouvering. Especially if you don't use the hammer.

You probably won't even survive the nautiloid if they do that, because if Zhalk would turn against you instead of the mindflayer, to make sure none of these pesky thralls get to the helm, you wouldn't stand a chance.

Maybe the problem to get good difficulty levels is that the game pushes too strong adversaries against lvl 1 characters from the beginning. Then they need to do all sorts of arrangements to enable those characters to survive.

Difficulty is a personal subjective experience. If someone finds the game too difficult to the point they stop playing it, they are right. If a significant portion of the player base feels and acts this way, then it is safe to say that the game is "factually" hard.


Game developers never focus on making a super smart AI, because it is a massive amount of work for a questionable outcome. They usually have to cut out a large portion of the planned content anyway, due to time constraints, so the smart AI has no chance of getting anywhere near the backlog. There are cheaper ways to add difficulty: more enemies, that do more damage and last longer.

On the other hand, it is also very hard to balance the game around a smart AI. In the context of BG3, the result of a fight between an expert player and AI would boil down to initiative and pure RNG. The one who goes first, wipes the other one out, provided all attack rolls are successful. I don't see how this could be seen as fun. The randomness goes heavily against the skill aspect of the challenge. You need a fairly stupid AI to be able to build enough buffers to counteract the effects of a potentially catastrophic RNG event.

More realistically though, even a very smart AI would have a number of blindspots to be exploited, rendering the entire effort to create one pointless.

Making Long Rest require more camping supplies won't make the game harder, just more annoying.

The game is too easy because the players are given cheesy exploits like stealth and wet, endless powerful consumables, super strong custom magic items and illithid powers.

Player power potential has to be cut and controlled better. Stealth and burst damage are the worst offenders.

Controlling player damage output is needed, not some senseless HP bloat for bosses. Other non-boss encounters need to be challenging too.

Same rules need to apply to players and monsters. What's the point of players having 100hp and enemies having 1000hp? It's just an unnecessary imbalance.

And tactical combat sucks and needs to be deeper. It's way too easy to get to anyone through any amount of minions or guards. Little less 'fun' movement items and abilities and buffed up jumps would go a long way in making positioning and guards actually matter. As would proper line of sight instead of firing arrows and spells through people. Bosses would be fun to fight if their minions could actually protect them, without clumsy "kill all minions first" invulnerability mechanics.

I fully support it. And not only the jump itself must be balanced, but also the spell 'jump'. In the name of all gods, why is the first level spell is so powerful? It lasts for 10 rounds and is actually a teleport over long distances, which is just ridiculous. Higher-level spells look strange against it. Why waste a higher spell cell for 'Misty Step' or 'Dimension Door ' if you can use overpowered low-level jump.

That is what happened to me in a certain way in my current Honour play. Zhalk killed the mindflayer very fast due to crits, then downed my main and Lae'zel, and Shadowheart barely reached the control panel. I was a bit worried wether it was "game over" that early because of the death of my main, as the others are not true companions of a party in the intro, but luckily she woke up on the beach.

I'm fine with Honour mode, it should not be the litmus test for the true hero/heroine but a difficult but manageable mode with a chance to fail permanently, a bit like in life. More difficulties should be added in Custom mode.

I also don't understand why self restriction is such a problematic feature for some people. I did not use any scroll or potion (other than healing) in my first real playthrough (after EA), did shove only one time, did not look for magical items except what I found by chance (I missed a lot ...), used stealth in combat only for my Rogue, avoided Illithid powers and, above all, never started a fight from the meta instead from the flow of the game. I do the same in Honour mode, to a certain degree at least. In my current Honour mode I was nearly wiped in the Gith fight because I did the dialogue and the initiative went badly, and I was so furious about the 600 gold and the stress that I started the revenge fight from stealth (because they now were hostile) with a fireball scroll I found, shame on me. Why cannot people use self-restricting house rules to make Honour mode more difficult?


What I would really appreciate would be a true 5e DnD mode without the op stuff the game offers to the player (and that's although I never played DnD tabletop).

You play this game almost the same way as I do. My rules for BG3 are the same as for BG2 (I played BG2 + BG2EE a lot):

1) Don't die - permadeath all the time (this is RPG: death means journey ends & game over.)
2) Don't kill companions - even if I don't use them - unless otherwise dictated by plots.
3) Don't use one-time items - potions, scrolls, barrels, etc. - unless I'm about to break rule #1 above (I haven't used scrolls in combat in BG3 yet).
4) Talk first, fight later - always, even if it means I have to walk into a death trap/big ambush (examples: House of Grief, Hag's Lair, etc.)

I found BG3 is not nearly as hard as I had expected. For 500+ hours playing on Tactician, I have not died once yet, which is totally unexpected. To me, BG3 is unbelievably easier than BG2. As a result, to fully enjoy BG3, I prefer to use cantrips, low-level spells, basic abilities, stay away from alchemy and healing, delay leveling up, etc.. More often than not, Karlach does not rage, Moon Druid Jaheria does not transform, nobody in my party uses Haste, etc. After a fight starts, I more often than not try to tease enemies (so that I get a chance to see their full power), instead of killing them in the first 1 or 2 rounds.




All these rule changes can be - most easily - done on the player's part - by you the player.

- reduce available found food by 70% => You can always sell or ignore or refuse to pick them up
- No multiclassing. There is no way to balance multiclassing cheese => You then just choose never to multiclass. So easy to get it done.
- remove the surprise enemy effect. => You can do what I do: chat first, don't surprise NPCs, only fight after a chat if you have to
- (people wont like this one) Remove 50% of itemization. Too many weapons and armor. => You can always ignore them!
- Random enemy attack as you're just exploring the map => You are not going to like this, I'd stop playing this game should this ever get implemented by Larian.
- rez only through scrolls => What do you mean??
- Reduce found scrolls and potions 60% => Just ignore all the scrolls in the game or as many as you wish.
- Make pickpocketing very difficult. => Well, you can always choose a character with -1 skill in Sleight of Hand when you wish to get caught pickpocketing.

We are not kids. BG3 is meant to be played by mature adults (due to its extensive adult contents). We don't need those parents, teachers, supervisors, developers hired by Larian Studios to come into us gamer's life, laying down some basic, easy-to-follow, extra gameplay rules for us to follow. If we don't like to cheese, then just don't cheese. Self-discipline. Easy enough.

Due to its RPG/DnD nature, BG3 cannot be genuinely hard to play. There is simply no way to make that happen. What can happen and what most players would like to see is, simply just make the game more interesting to play AND to replay. This is a totally different perspective. For example, from this perspective, "no multiclassing" would be really a setback, "reducing found scrolls... 60%" would make no real difference other than estrange wizard players, etc. In my opinion, the right way to making game more interesting to replay is NOT by arbitrarily making it "hard" (read: boring). Instead, how about Improving combat AI? - Examples: how about letting bosses use "smart tactics" against players - not just via legendary actions but also via some other creative kind of things?

The suggestion/feedback is for Larian to make the game more difficult.

Coming in and saying "you can self restrict!" is not helpful. Everyone *already* knows that they can self restrict whatever they want. Do you think you're enlightening someone with a new idea?

Again, the game is too easy. The suggestion/feedback is for Larian. The "want* is that Larian upgrades the difficulty. A few suggestions have been offered as to how, which Larian can hear and then consider. By consider, I mean that Larian can factor those suggestions into understanding *why* the game is too easy and then figure out how to appropriately address the concern.

The suggestion that the difficulty can't be raised without hp bloat or some such is patently absurd.

To the right of Honor Mode is Custom mode that you can customize anyway you want

Well i just finished Honor mod with 4 pt members. No tadpole no cheese no cheat run no suprise no respec single class no prebuff.

So there are some difficult things but just a few.
The noticeable bosses where : Spider queen / Inquisitor / Grym / Gortash /Ansur / and the Titan. Few of my companions or even the main character died in those encounters.


Medium difficulty I had with Myrkuls avatar+ Thorn and Nere.

Everything else was the same like in tactican there was no increase in difficulty really. I never saw anything " about the later encounters getting harder as the Honor mode description points it out" . Also traps are ridiculous in act 2-3 I don't even bother to disam them. I still had issues that I don't even needed to rest really and because of that I missed a lot of content.


But I think if I will play it solo and on the top of that i use the custom mode to get a - 1 proficiency bonus +x4 on camp supply and price of the merchants. Then I think even me with 3400 hours in BG3 will be challenged w/o tadpoles ofc.

So this is a step into the rigth direction but only really challenging in act1 and actually act 1 was not so bad in tactican.

So as others said before me Honor is too easy but ( for a 4-3 man party). Enemies don't have armor class so they got hitted 90% of the time this is really a joke. It doesn't matter if they have 18 or 10 if the average to hit bonus of any lvl 12 character is around 14-20 + advantage. I also think the vet effect is to strong. This was the first time I used sorcerer and tempest cleric but it's insane VS this classes Paladin or tavern brawler monk is a joke. Most of the time I just skipped the turn of Lazell (sorc) and shadow. H( tempest) because if the act first!! there is nothing left to experience from the encounter.

My personal opinion with honor + custom mode it's challenging for 1-2 players.
I tryed to give a spoiler free feedback but as I moved to act 2-3 I was dissapointed because Ac1 started so strong.

PS
If I could influence the dev team to make a change.???

Then my suggestions are the following X3 more trap damage.

Moving objects or talking them out from inventory should cost an action or bonus action. In both divinity 1-2 it costs points to move an object I don't understand why here don't. It's ultra unrealistic. In this way the carrying capacity makes no sense why is it even present??


Its insane that this is even possible.


I also think that trowed potions should not effect multiple targets and it should use the complite action instead attack / round. It's so stupid that a figther with action surge can bring back from a death door state the full party to a maximum hp with just throwing potions. And he can trow at least 6-7 potions .

This is so baffling to me.

Their game has always been too easy, yet they just keep adding new nonsensical exploits like this to D&D for the player that cut tactical depth from the game. Having a Cleric in the party provides no tactical advantage with Mass Cure Wounds anymore, because anyone can just throw potions to the same effect. And Fighters can just spam them.

Not only do you not have to actually drink potions anymore but they are also AoE when thrown. As far as immersion goes, this is the most ridiculous gamey invention ever. Personally I don't think meme stuff like this belongs in a mature RPG, for immersive world-building reasons alone.

Same with the unlimited "Help" action that effectively counters tons of enemy damage without failure. Boss hit a party member for 75 damage and downed them? I'll just click this button to get them to +1 again. And the boss has to try to down them again, and again, spending excessive amounts of damage against 1HP. And then you can just revive, again and again.

If they fix combat and limit player damage output so that you can't cheese bosses or alpha strike them in one turn, these issues will rise up next in removing tactical challenge from combat. I'd start with removing the healing exploits from harder difficulties.

I just don't understand this barrel placement and explosives taking no action or bonus action.
To select 89 explosives placing it on the floor w/or spending an action or anything then trow bomb or a fire arrow spell whatever. Deal 6000 damage then scratch will use the help action . Encounter won w/o effort.


I understand that they allow this on story mod but on the hardest difficulty. Why I even need to fight just insert a i win button somewhere on the screen.


They removed this bull from divinity 1-2 . Why the hell is it available in bg3?? It erase all the work and effort what they did in 38 minutes.

Here are some Honor mode review I think they are all representative. At least what I think about Honor. Also there are some nice feedback too.

- Careful planning required.

Restrictions on availability of resources need to be very carefully planned. Otherwise, it will be just another way to cheat. Think about this: if you raise difficulty to your suggested new level, how do you want the game engine to remove items/resources from the game? Which/what/how many items to be removed from where and also exactly when?

- Ramifications have to be considered.

Also, keep in mind: if it's not a player self restriction, if you want Larian to implement a new rule, the change (new rule) will equally affect millions of players worldwide. However, the perceived "too easy" is not universal at all - no known data suggest that. If I had not spent a lot of time, the game would still be very hard to me too. Regardless, I suffered a full party wipe on the first day I played the game.

Among roughly 20 million BG3 players worldwide (which is an estimate by a company based partly on Steam's data), according to Larian, 1.3 million playthroughs had been completed by end of Nov 2023 (in roughly 3.5 months after the full release of the game). Think about this: if ~95% of BG3 players have not completed the game, how do they even know if the game is genuinely too easy or too hard? If you have completed the game and can confirm the game is too easy (or not), you are minority. You are among the 1.3/20 = 6.5% of player base.

- On the technical part.

Technically, the abundance of resource items cannot be the most relevant source of perceived "too easy" - such that: let's remove some items and the game will immediately magically become harder. if you remove weapons, I can switch to scrolls. If you remove scrolls, i can switch to the actual spells - you cannot remove spells themselves, right? by removing weapons, you cannot remove my fists, right? I can switch to monk class and continued to feel "too easy". if you remove food, I personally don't care. I can always take a long rest without using food and still get half of the full rest effects. On average, I play 10+ hours and take 1 long rest.

- My opinion: The ultimate reason for perceived "too easy" is that Larian has deliberately kept the game manageable to millions of players, thereby making it inevitably feel "too easy" to a tiny number of more experienced, returning players, such as you. All the players like you, put together, are possibly less than 1.3/20 = 6.5% of player base, as 1.3 million completed playthroughs could very well be done by much fewer players than 1.3 million. If 1.3 million playthroughs were done by 1 million players, you are among 5% of the play base.



- The game deliberately tries not to raise NPC levels to match the player party - at least in Act 3.

In Act 2, most guards are level 8. My Karlach party of level 6 are already powerful enough to kill all of level 8 guards.

In Act 3, most guards are level 10, with some variations, whereas robots are always level 11. But my party can quickly earn enough XP ready to hit level 12. Yet, potentially hostile creatures and bosses seem to be capped at level 11 most of the time. Very few are level 12. How can level 10/11 enemies beat a party of well-armed level 12 characters?

Additionally, every party of 12 can create a huge army of summons, making the total of a player party up to 30+, if I counted correctly. On a fast computer, a player party of size 30 is still manageable.

To make the game feel "too easy" you really don't need items. One way to do so (without any items) is: just use spells to create a huge army to outnumber your enemies - that's about it.

Here is a concrete example of how Larian has deliberately kept Act 3 easy enough to millions of players:

A most deceptively easy fight in Act 3 is when I expected a serious wizard duel in a wizard tower. Before I entered the portal, I was even a bit nervous, as I was recalling my memory about the tower called "Watcher's Keep" - an unforgettable experience from BG2. I hesitated but decided to level Gale up - he should lead any wizard duel - making Gale the only level 12 character in my party. However, after I entered the port and saw my opponent, I was hugely disappointed... Do you know that human mage's actual level? Or at least give me a guess about his level, please? Anyway, we finished this "duel" with zero HP lost among all my 4 party members. And that was on Tactician difficulty. That was in Act 3. This kind of perceived "too easy" has nothing to do with there being too many items and so on. I don't use potions, scrolls, barrels, etc. Larian has also made it unnecessary to use items in such a mage duel. Gale, being a level 12 wizard, is supposed to be miles ahead of a lowly low-level mage, who is no better than a wizard in Act 2 who at least fought us in a more or less honest way and felt mighty in Act 2.

In BG2, dragons and hordes of creatures are summoned to guard occasionally worthless treasures. In BG3, only a lowly wizard tries to guard a huge collection of most expensive scrolls. And all the traps/locks are more cosmetic than a real deterrence to any thief. Unbelievable. Yet, believe or not, this mage has given quite some players and even reviewers a headache. Some reviews picked by MSN even claim this is a hardest battle in the game.

The only thing is bothering me is your math with 1.3 million is 6.5 % of 20 million. Where did you get this number??? That's not 20 million players. I tell you till October I already did 8 times tactician.

And another thing is I played for example elden ring and fallout 4 and Skyrim individually more then 500 hours but I never ever finished any of them. ( I do plan to finish elden ring I just wait for the dlc) You know why because some people have the urge to try out with another class or they have a better idea ect ect... It doesn't mean that the game is too hard for them. It can be a lot of other things.
Another thing I played bg3 ower 3400 hours but I only complited 16 times mybe more but . Some ppl reporting that they did 10 times with less than 1000 hour's.

So not everyone is the same.

In BG2 even a single wizard could be a formidable opponent: insta-casting a bunch of impenetrable protections then proceeding to call a Time Stop. In BG3 the big wizard fight usually starts with the big wizard being killed in the first turn, and the player is left to deal with a horde of powerful elementals. The only way BG3 can make fights challenging is by throwing more and more trash mobs at you, which does not jive well with the already slow turn based system. By the time the big wizard fight ends, you had already forgotten about the existence of the wizard.
They even had to add two random water elementals to the dragon fight. Why wasn't the dragon made powerful enough on its own?

Based on PS5 trophy statistics 12.4% have completed the game. I assume it is similar for PC too. There is a large drop between the prologue and the end of act I. 86% have escaped from the Nautiloid, but only 40% reached the end of the first act. This is not uncommon for these types of games. People stop playing for all kinds of reasons. It is not necessarily related to difficulty. That being said, it is pretty safe to assume that BG3 was quite challenging to many players. It's a niche game hyped into the mainstream.

Tonight, I watched two bg3 streams, both in honour mode.

First was WolfheartFPS. He began by beating the steel watch titan. It happened before the titan even had an opportunity to act. Then he took out Sarevok. Sarevok never got to act. After that, he finished Gortash. All that encounter took was an Otto's spell followed by Lae'zel's sword. There was never a moment where any of it felt difficult or dangerous.

Next, I watched ThePowerHour stream his solo run. Which he won tonight. Now, what he did was not easy; I'm not saying it was. But the fact that he was able to do it solo speaks volumes.

The game is too easy. It just is.

Honour was just supposed to offer a "one save run", not a (so) harder content.
There is already 3 difficulty modes (you can switch between at anytime) + new Honour and "Custom" you can manualy max the difficulty with, so Larian probably already loudly kept this way BG3 "manageable".

Question for fans of ultra-opti-builds and GodKiller stuffs (that most of players, including in harder modes, don't care) => "custom mode" doesn't offer a better challenge ?

Why is it impossible to select honour mode options in custom difficulty? I have completed the honour mode, now I want to play with saves. Are there plans to change the custom mode?

No to limiting long rests, or food, or taking away multi classing, that is a surefire way to get people to play honor mode just once and never again, way too limiting in a game that emphasis freedom of choice. It's your choice and right to go full nova each fight and long rest, just the same to self-impose restrictions on yourself by not doing so.

The major glaring issue I see with honor mode is the braindead AI and easily manipulated, Larian seriously needs to polish enemy behavior and slapping a couple legendary actions is not enough.

I have lost count on the amount of times enemies dash/disengage straight into my AOE spells (cloud of daggers, not just a fire surface mind you) and they explode or end their turn in the AOE giving me freebie kills.

If a party member goes down you can just healing word them knowing the AI is going to just focus them down again and waste their actions trying to kill the companion outright when they should be turning their attention to you.

Other times if I am on high ground and the enemy can't reach me they just stare at me out in the open ending their turn (very rarely will an enemy have a "pull" skill to knock you off) there is ZERO self-preservation in the AI to run to cover or draw me out of my position by throwing things at me.

Other than the occasional hold person or burning hands the AI also fails to use the plethora of spells or throwables in the game to actually change up approaches to combat and make spellcasters an ACTUAL THREAT.

As it stands the AI in this game feel very like a neutered version of their DoS2 counterparts, the problem with that is BG3 has limiting actions while DOS2 enemies can take multiple actions in a turn so the threat is very real if you allow a spellcaster to chill in the backlines uncontested.

That is why NPCs like Anders is so feared because he actually uses his class abilities like any paladin would, we need smarter AI.

Some sources have estimated how many copies of BG3 have been sold in about 3-4 months so far. All the numbers center around 15-20+ millions. Though one copy can be played by more than 1 person (two family members don't have to buy two copies and a whole family may only want to buy 2 copies for playing co-op), it is reasonable to assume 1 copy sold => 1 player of BG3 resulted. So, ~20 million player base is a best estimate we can get so far.

1.3 million is only the total number of playthroughs completed. Some may have completed several playthroughs, some may have spent a lot of time without completing even once. However, on average, it is also a best estimate we can get to assume ~1.3 million players have completed the game. Example: you completed 2 times and I completed none - on average, you and I each have completed mathematically once - this is just math - 2 players have completed 2 playthroughs in total. Another example: you completed 10 times and 9 players like me have not completed - on average, 10 players have completed 10 times - again, this is just math - each of the 10 players has completed mathematically once on average.

If you have more data, we can refine our estimates. So far, however, 1.3 million / 20 million = 6.5% completion rate of BG3 is, for lack of more accurate data, the best estimate I have got from known data sources.

I agree with you. Honor is just a "honorable" variation of Tactician. Smarter AI is the only right route to take for creating a genuinely challenging mode. Players choosing to limit their long rests, their use of resources, or their leveling up options does not contribute in any way to creating a "smarter" AI.



The game is hard to millions of players who can't afford 100s of hours doing just 1 game (to entertain themselves), let alone like certain YouTubers who may spend 100+ hours / week preparing "amazing" BG3 videos to entertain random strangers for "views".

To me, Honor (as it is right now) is just a calling for a new achievement. Once it's done, forever it's done - you can't even trace your steps backward as there is only one save. So, an Honor run is supposed to be VERY different. The easier the Honor mode is, the better. The faster a Honor run goes, the better. Shortcuts, tricks, high-level spells, legit abuses, etc., should all be used to get the achievement.

The only meaningful goal of an Honor run is just an achievement. And any "amazing" YouTuber would show potential Honor runners how to get the achievement in an amazingly short time or otherwise amazingly easy way. In a way, they have to make the game ALWAYS look easy (to you the audience).

It is very understandable if a YouTube only wishes to make a Honor run more or less look like a walk in the park. This has little to do with how easy/hard the game is to millions of players who merely play or role-play the game to entertain themselves.

Imagine this: Should an "amazing' YouTube choose to be silly enough to fight Titan/Gortash/etc. in a "normal" way (like a first-time newbie player) - on Honor Mode - would you still feel their gameplay videos "amazing" at all?

Dude. For the sake of brevity:

1. I don't find them amazing. That's the point. The game is too easy. I've personally walked through Honour Mode.

2. If millions of people find it hard, then the hardest difficulty probably isn't for those millions of people.

3. The hardest difficulty should be difficult.

Why some people are so against the game being difficult is beyond me. If you don't care for a difficult playthrough, play on a lower difficulty and let the rest of us find the challenge level we're looking for. While I'm sure you find your own input valuable, I'm curious why folks asking for a harder challenge warrants that input.

Since the Gold dice were a nice motivating factor, they should keep with that. Like there could just as easily be the Green D20, the Red D20, the Black D20 etc. for the full spectrum like belts in martial arts or whatever.

I think I would also be interested in achievements which would play up or highlight different riffs on the difficulty curve, like with different characters or classes. Maybe with Duo Tone D20s for more variety.

Maybe we get a D20 for the "Autumnal Hues of Gale" if you complete the game with him as your partner, or I don't know, but they could do that for many things where the challenge keys off a particular set of tactics or goals that might be associated specifically, so it needn't be a one off or one size/color fits all.

I can think of a number of ways right now that the game might be made more difficult, or perhaps just more tedious or more meta depending on the perspective. Ideas for that might be...

Withering Silence: Where you never say hi to Withers or use any of those features of the game, declining when offered. Some sort of Black and White D20 that looks like it's from the silent film era.

Dirt Nap: the above plus permanent death for the Companions. So perhaps a companion can be resurrected once, but you gotta drag them to a temple or use some form of divine intervention where they can cap it. I don't know say it removes all the revivify scrolls from merchants or just makes them so prohibitively expensive that it's effectively off the table after the first time. This way you can keep the narrative stuff in play that may require a death/revivify mechanic for story reasons, but where that's limited to just one near death per character. Or something along those lines.

Or you could do some stuff in between. Say a narrower limit on the total number of camp followers so that Hirelings/Zombies only come into play once the regular group is thinned out.

For something on the other end of the spectrum, the Rainbow Bridge D20 might make it so that there is never a Pet Semetary situation with Scratch. Basically so he can be part of the team the whole time. You know like for the custom difficulty riffs, where you can pick and choose, cause that's one I'd like. To my thinking Scratch sort of becomes the animal companion for a Ranger or Druid in this game, or a familiar for whichever character doesn't generally get to have one as part of their class package.

For that I think it'd be fun to isolate out certain things from the difficulty mode that way, to make it more forgiving along one axis to make room for more challenge on another if that makes sense. I guess the general idea there would be a way to encourage/force the player to use the Help action, which is typically just completely overshadowed by potion healing or divine healing magic. There are some bones in the cupboard on this one, like with the idea of stabilizing the downed, but it sorta goes instantly out the window once you got a few potions in the pack and ranged healing spells. Here maybe that is removed, and in exchange the dog never truly dies while playing like that. I just feel that should somehow be a thing here, not necessarily for the challenge, but just as a nice touch and thing that would surely make me give it another run around.

I like how they somehow captured the haptics of rolling dice here, even if they're not actually in-hand and just a trick of the flickering screen, I think it's a bit of a hallmark now.

I hope that whatever Larian ends up doing for their next game, that they will be remembered for really capturing that D20 and making it feel special. It's something BG3 gave us that really adds to the sense of BG legacy. Because, for all their gloriousness in so many other respects, BG1 and BG2 kept the dice pretty under the hood, whereas BG3 really tossed em out there on the table for all to see!

I thought I would get tired of dice animations eventually when I first started playing this game, but it never really happened for me. I still dig watching em roll! That's a bit of a feat right there in and of itself hehe

Anyhow, just a thought

ps. knock on, so a further idea would be to associate a D20 with the player character, rather than the player. So say Astarion rolls a check for the lockpick, might show his Ascended/Redeemed color combo. Or like maybe Shadowheart has a Moonlit D20 and Shar D20 depending on what the player did with her character in the various runs. Same deal as like in MP where two player characters might want to rock different colored dice. Not that they need to go so insane with it all that it feels arbitrary, but just a progressive way to complete a big D20 ultra bag through replay. I think this could also play into the whole idea of NPCs unlocking as companions or other similar rewards of that sort. Things which don't necessarily alter all the mechanics at once, but that could play off whatever the desired/hardest setting, by setting alternative parameters that might be entertaining. People will likely keep looking for ways and excuses to run it again, cause it's good a BG game, but anytime it's a customizable choose your own adventure type difficulty I sometimes get lost in the weeds trying to pick. The other reason I like it, is because if you can get out to say a couple dozen color combos that's a lot more room to get two or more ideas working together. So I don't know say the Red and Muddy Green Nightmare on Elmstreet D20 achievement has a way to pace the long rests built in to the challenge, or perhaps nerfs back down to one short rest like in the earliest access, but then add on top of that you might be a Wizard, with some extra safety color to the Die, and suddenly it's got a different dimension to it right? I think something like that could certainly work, cause they just did it, and it was pretty.

I'll just still keep with my general and totally highball it. We have 3 different D20s right now, but to do it right maybe we need 256? lol

I mean that is one way to make good on the whole 'more endings than you could possibly fathom promise. People would definitely probably want to work through the palette for Baldur's Gate of Many Colors. Dyes for the Dice more or less, but making it part of the gameplay challenge.

pps. oh oh, and in Nightmare mode, fallen companions might return and visit us in our dreams for weird surrealist nightmare interludes. So the Haunted One background could be properly haunted. I don't know if it's even possible, but like say they got some stuff on the cutting room floor that didn't quite fit, maybe it gets tossed into that one. So like Minthara's revenge to break our mind from beyond the grave. Or Halsin's still trapped in the Shadowfell. Alfira's playing the lute at the Last Light, but then suddenly we're in the boiler room with Marcus and Isobel. The music boxes all start playing backwards. Wither's has hair! For the below ? I have no doubt mods will pull something together and this game will have some legs, or just really long arms. I look forward to it, but again the pick and choose can overwhelm. I mean you never know, maybe some devs will mod, or mods will dev, stitch it all together in one nice package, but it just takes a lot longer, because they wouldn't have the same sorta push, where everyone is all on the same page there. I think it could work on console more readily too, where modding is just not really an option. Ideally they would all sync up in presentation. Probably a moonshot, but while we're tossing em out there.

I personally would prefer extreme challenge modes as more of a thing for mods as opposed to stuff the developer does. As people could then tweak the game to their hearts delight. Although we might have to wait until the sdk becomes a thing.

Well i tryed to run honor + custom mode with *4 camp *3 price and - 1 proficiency. Solo I wanted to record and give the feedback. But sometimes I can just capture 20-30 minutes w/o any editing.

Its almost impossible in act 1. It's simply just too many misses.

Conclusion: the real problem is armor class and variety of enemy spells lack of ranged weapons. I don't think the AI is too stupid it just don't have tools to do something else.

If they will not adjust AC saves spells it in act 2-3 the game will be never hard enough. I could do it by myself.
But someone have to pay for it. I kind a need to quit from my job to do this.
I just don't have time right now. My wife went back to work and I have just 50-60 min/ day to play sometimes even just 20 or nothing at all.

I'm almost in act 3 on honor mode, it's been taking me a while but so far it's been a bit too easy and I'm not even using any illithid powers (haven't absorbed a single taddie yet lol, going into honor mode I thought taddies would be necessary but so far they ain't). One day I'll really have to try soloing it. But once I have gotten my golden dice, I will deffo return here with some criticisms.

IMO, Larian has repeatedly demonstrated that increasing the difficulty of the game is not a priority for them.

If you want to play a tactically more difficult game, I suggest self-imposing restrictions or mod the game, rather than waiting for Larian to overhaul the game for people that want it to be more challenging.

I agree with this. Larian has now done several attempts to provide harder modes, but it looks like the gamers consider them failures, i.e. not achieving the goal they asked for. So, modding, or a DLC could be a better option. One of the reasons I say this, is that the game is already very big. If an additional difficulty level needs entirely new enemy combat AI's and a new distribution of magical items, I imagine it will increase the scripts enormously. For all the players,not just the few % who eagerly wait for this.
So an optional DLC would be better and could maybe really attack the core of the problem.

Personally, I don't have a problem with combat difficulty, but I would love to see some more roleplaying options and sidequests using diplomacy or treachery, and also an extended character building. But this would similarly bloat the game for everyone, while only a few percent of players would use it or notice the difference. I would be willing and eager to buy an optional DLC for this, if that could make it happen.

There seem to be various mods that promise to fix the combat scripts: enemies will use their full arsenal and *smartly*.

I use some restrictions for myself: no haste potions, no stats boosted to well over 20, no throwing potions, etc. If I think it shouldn't be in the game, I don't like to use it.

An innate problem is that there's an achievement for honour mode... and that it is not only a difficulty setting. Beating Honor mode means you've mastered the mechanics of the game and beaten it "honorably". Nothing less, nothing more. It's not designed to make you *suffer*.

I've not had time to test various mods, but they seem promising for people who want a proper "unfair" difficulty.

Until now I just saw everyone exploiting the hell out until they get the gold dice. I beated it honorable I did failed 8 times. But I did it w/o exploits.

All I see is that every one trow potions multiple times abuse to move objects freely without talking any action or bonus actions . For example exploding barrels or fireworks. Taking 400 kg stuff out from they pocket whit out any effort. This isnt honor. It's just a lazy way of Larian not really care about what they created.

I dont understand what was the point to search how much a is a bears weight to adjust to some real value. If someone can move 400kg stuff 4-5 barrels or a bag with 4 dead ppl like faster then the flash coting not even 1 second.

I just beat Raphael on honour and I was surprised at how easy I made it 2nd time around.

It is a tough fight, but it didn't last long enough for Gale's potion of speed to wear off. Unlike first playthrough I had everyone geared up, had a tailored party and a clear strategy:

- Gale erects Globe of invulnerability and disintegrates pillars,
- Astarion/Lae'zel focus-kill next up cambions,
- Tav paladin (and Lae'zel) push or throw cambions out of Globe and help focus-kill,
- Hope Banishes cambions
- Summons distract and impede

Due to Act 2 Shar temple shenanigans (where I broke my oath), Yurgir was on my side and sure enough killed Korilla, whom I was trying to save. I should have put a Resilient sphere around her knocked out form.

At start of round 3 with all cambions down, Raphael knocked prone, dazed, bleeding and reverberating with radiant dots, I realized Gale's Hold monster was at 90%. The resultant dogpile evaporated 300-400 hps.

There was such a huge difference between this run and original tactician play through.

When I do my necromancer run, I'm going to self limit a lot. No stealing from vendors, abundant supplies are too helpful. No camp casting, big boosts there. No camp full of companions; being able to tailor a party gives huge flexibility. No hoarding magic items, again you can customize lay outs for specific encounters. In short, I'll play a compact party that has to use what is at hand for encounters. I don't do frequent rests, I like to push to the limit, that'll remain.

For each fight, I'll try for something new. Saving Korilla will be #1 priority next time - even though I'll be an evil necromancer...

100% This game is not tuned effectively. I am on my first playthrough on honormode yet have 1 turn killed every boss in act 1...
I spend hours thinking about, preparing and setting up my team's.. Just for the fight to end on turn 1! This has heavily hampered my enjoyment of the game. I find my self never needing to use any scroll, potion or real thought in any fight. I have like 20 speed potions that just sit in my pack unused! SPEED POTIONS! when i dont even need the extra ac and actions it can give you...

Please plz please make the game like 5x more difficult! As it stands their is no point in doing prep for any fight

I understand that the game was first and formost made for the intention of rolplayed suboptimal characters, But This kind of play is not what brings me enjoyment. I thought honor mode was aimed at me, But it seems not.. I play games to challenge myself and win, Honormode feelz like storymode from other games ive played. I'd Like a Darkest Dungeons type experience!

I also found honor mode surprisingly easy, especially in acts 2/3. Even just playing casually without using any cheesy tactics there is barely any challenge except for some bosses. Fights against random enemies mostly tedious since there's no risk of losing

You THINK and prepare, that's what makes you different and that's what makes it easy for you.

I learned how to play in EA. Then, while exploring and learning the full game about mid way through Act 2 I felt I had a grip on the game and decided that Tactician is too easy (e.g. I played a three strong party and had no problems in getting to Moonrise Towers, with some use of F8), so I switched to playing Honour Mode only, discovering the tail end of Act and all of Act 3 (I avoided spoilers and soluitions online ... most of the time) in HM. I found this tough and I died a couple of times (and restarted) before winning my Gold Die.

I agree that Honour Mode is not that hard BUT only if this is NOT your first playthrough.

Soloing the game is beyond me. Maybe with the experience I have I could do the game with a three member party.

Something more like this?



hehe never sleep again!

1-2 Withers coming for You!

Some further thoughts, just cause I really like the idea of game mode that sets this stuff up for us. Having rules or restrictions or achievements that would be tough for a player to establish for themselves, at least with a broad consensus. For example the single-save aspect or the legendary actions in Honour Mode would probably be a tough sell if the difficulty setting didn't bake that all in for us. Sorta the difference between having a nice boxed cake ready to go, maybe Funfetti or an 'I-scream' cake from 31 flavors, as opposed to like baking a wedding cake from scratch. Maybe we get to crack that one egg and doctor things up, so it feels more personal, but you know what I mean. If honour mode is the "we trust you" to know how you want to punish yourself, vs just getting the punishment doled out. Like where the game does the things for us, that we can't be trusted to do for ourselves, or gives us some new spin that mixes up the grab bag.

Fast Travel Waypoints: Mini Map Glows Red so we know what's what.

So I understand the warp convenience factor in all other modes, but for a Nightmare difficulty setting it just seems like Fast travel via Waypoints should be much more restricted. An interesting riff or compliment to Honour Mode would be that in Nightmare, all areas in the game turn into Hostile environments - where the Mini Map shows red the entire time, except for select safe-spots where Long Resting resting is allowed. No fast travel unless the player actually clicks on a waypoint or an area transition. Every main area hub has a waypoint already, so this would serve as a sort of checkpoint for this mode. Fleeing combat could still work, provided the character isn't being observed or if they can put enough space between themselves and nearby enemies, but it would warp us to the Waypoint rather than directly camp just to preserve the scheme. Lots of areas in the game already work like this, and those are usually the most intense parts of the run. Main example being the Illithid colony capstone to act 2, which many seem to enjoy. This would just have the entire game working more like that. Turns the campaign into a limited Long Rest run, since you'd need to actually transition to camp from a location in-world first (the Waypoint). This puts pressure on the Long Rest, and makes Short Rest more important for the party, but without totally pancaking things there. Once the theme is established it can be hammered home with further adjustments to other stuff like...

The Camp Chest:

I feel like the chest works against what's going on in Honour Mode, for the Party's resource management and the Monty Haul generally, so in Nightmare it's probably the first thing to go. The camp chest makes encumbrance a non factor, which spikes the GP across the board from casual looting. I think a lot of challenge could be gained by just making everything weigh more and restricting our use of this Camp Chest. Something like 2x the weight, but without any added damage from that in the case of objects being thrown. Downstream more weight means fewer explosive barrels lugged around less trash sold for gold, but it also puts pressure on Player when choosing what kit to bring along or which stuff to sell. The armor and heavy weapons are the often the most valuable so this is a kind of offset there where we're encouraged to offload or spend instead of hording a massive pile. Being able to store an infinite amount of stuff at camp feels somehow different than being able to send it there automatically via the camp chest right click, so the idea would be that in the Nightmare you actually have to walk the stuff back if you want horde it all. Here the tradeoff in tedium vs riches becomes more pronounced and it probably pushes the GP down a couple grand per act so the economy can be tighter. For example in Act I, if the party can be held closer to say 1500-2000 GP and spending, as opposed to say 4000-5000 GP and saving, that's a big difference. Not all classes are the same, but just ballpark like cutting the money in half. Suddenly the more expensive scrolls and items feel much pricier in relative terms. You can do this to yourself by just ignoring drops or throwing gold off a cliff, but I'd rather it be more gamified than that and built into the mode. I don't know maybe Withers calls us out on our conspicuous consumption, or Arron jokes about how he's going to start raising his prices since he knows we can afford it now hehe. Perhaps if we start pushing the ceiling on horded gold, we might face some highway robbers at the waypoints or things of that sort? Basically where the game has some extra ways to shake us down, or gives us little nods signaling to the player that they have enough gold for now. Could happen at the waypoint transitions, or intermediate areas, so there's a spot to stage such encounters.

Merchants:

Along those same lines, I don't think players should really have to come up with inventive ways to ignore merchants in order to get a challenge out of this mode, but some sort of narrative conceit could be introduced to help explain it. All the merchants could use a separate Nightmare loot table to determine what sort of consumables and such are made unavailable or to factor in additional costs. Things like Smoke Powder Grenades, Strength Potions, Speed Potions, specialty Arrows and Scrolls, those could all bump up a tier in cost. So uncommon potions and elixirs become rare, and everything is priced at that higher level. From the other direction put some limits on what merchants will restock once purchased, so for example Ethel stops brewing new potions and lotions after her big firesale on day 1. Forcing players to use the alchemy system seems kinda rough, but I think that could be the fallback to ensure that there's always one of whatever super special potion. Also no knockout drops from the Merchants in Nightmare Mode. Having them just drop their most valuable items for sale circumvents too much and upends the real cost for everything else they're selling. Examples would be being able to just swoop Cat's Grace from Ester, or the Dex gloves from Jeera, the Yuan-Ti Mail from Talli, the Fur Coat and Drakes Glaive from Roah, the Risky Ring from Oblodra, the Halberd of Vigilance etc. Instead of forking over a couple grand those all just become quick gets. There are some modestly priced items you might lose out on sure, but then because they're more modestly priced you can just swoop those too, then take back the gold you spent and get the more expensive items from the drops on top. Fine for the lower difficulty settings, but for the highest difficulty setting seems like Merchants just shouldn't drop anything at all. Or I don't know, say they cap it at like couple hundred GP and a couple rez scrolls say, something sensible like what Cyrel at the Tollhouse drops. Merchants probably shouldn't be like Mini-Bosses but they all sort of work like that now. Or if they are meant to be mini-bosses they should be way harder to kill. Like if Quartmaster Talli had legendary abilities, ok sure, but right now the pickings seem too easy in Honour. Nightmare could probably split the difference, where they get buffed for combat and we get nerfed on the loot? A lot of issues come down to just being a bit too rich, overkitted or overlevelled, but this can be controlled somewhat by how we interact with the merchants.

Spells and Scrolls:

I think a lot of this stuff would be self correcting once the Long Rest and merchant economy is tighter, or if using a more restrictive scheme where some scrolls or especially high level spell scrolls can only be used by the associated classes. Just wanted to highlight some examples that sorta bookend things by Act, one from the start of the game, one from the middle, and one the end.


The CC spell "Hold Person" vs Neutrals:

Right now I think this one breaks a lot of potentially pretty tough fights, especially early on. When the spell lands on an isolated NPC the game treats it as if the targeted character was unconscious rather than just paralyzed. When the spell fails to land, the targeted character just gives off a warning. This is busted because it allows the player to open a fight by just continually casting Hold Person until it lands, with the only downside being the spellslots expended. So like for the above Merchants above, you can Hold Person, knockout a merchant with Non-Lethal then come back the next day and the NPC will act like nothing ever happened. If the party is observed doing this by another NPC, it can prompt wonky stuff with initiative by factions. For example, you might have one faction (say Zhent merchants) go aggro and turn red, while another faction (say Guards of the Absolute) just sorta stand around max healing and doing nothing while people are killing each other on their watch in full view. You can make weapon or spell attacks, but rather than pulling those characters into initiative, the game then treats it like they're chillin' outside of Time or in another dimension. I've seen the same thing go down with Necromites spawning outside of initiative on the roof of Moonrise, so not entirely down to the Hold Person spell I guess, but I think it's exacerbated by the way enemies respond to the CC spell. For example, I can cast Hold Person and then murder Kithrath Thereyzzn right in front of her Wolves and that Guard standing a couple feet away. Or I can kill Z'rell in her room at Moonrise with no chance for her to Black Hole or do anything at all really. There are other CC spells that are similarly problematic, but Hold Person is available to almost all the Caster classes and it comes online at lvl 3. It's useful for most of the game via upcast (even after Hold Monster comes online it's still pretty solid if dealing with Humanoids) and for some classes like say Paladins or Bards or Warlocks with more focused spell lists or a slower spell progression, it sees a lot of use. The spell is very satisfying to cast too, like the associated animations and feeling of power when it lands, especially on more than one foe at a time for the crit dogpile. It's a fav for sure, but lately it's feeling on par with barrels. I think on higher difficulty settings a failed attempt to cast Hold Person should function more like ranged spell attack where the targeted character instantly turns hostile/red and we get dinged on character or faction approval. If it lands, it makes sense that someone who's been frozen in place can't like look over their shoulder to witness the who or the why on that, so no witnesses is fine, but then you'd think they'd be sorta freaked out by the experience. I don't know maybe they raise their prices and hire an extra guard the next day. Talli maybe stops talking about how she sold Marcus those Boots, and instead rambles about how the Shadowcurse must be getting worse. I legit think Holding and Command type spells are among the more villainous options available to a spellcaster. It's like the broke version of Stop Time or a Barrel of paralysis or something lately though. Probably needs work.

The summoning spell "Greater Elemental" vs Bosses with Mobs:

I thought about this one compared to say Animate Dead or the Minor Elementals which are similar and come online much sooner, but the big elementals are potent in a way that those other summons aren't, mainly because of the elemental warp. Slam and Multi-attack are powerful by themselves too, but it's the warp around that makes them so formidable. Average cost is probably 1000 GP with some give or take there based on the party's rizz, so relatively affordable by the time we come across these scrolls. It basically like gaining a 5th party member complete with Misty Step, except where each member of the party have one. It's probably still more entertaining to slam Ketheric with a stone minion than it is to just blow him up with grenades or whatever, cause at least the big ones can go toe to toe, but this seems like something for Druids and Wizards and such. I think a compromise might be something like Limited Duration, say 10 rounds instead of all day. Or maybe that has a check and some randomization when cast. For example, sometimes the Elemental spawns hostile (more likely if cast from a scroll), sometimes allied for 10 rounds, maybe only dedicated casters can have one still around all day or where it feels like a big bonus when that happens. Also just the idea of the elementals maybe not being able to exist on the material plane for quite so long, but needing to return to their elements. The smaller memphits have that potential downside where they can explode and hurt the team when they fall, so perhaps the larger ones do something similar when they die but with a larger blast radius? Again, maybe Druids and Wizards can mitigate the fallout on that somehow, but where the danger is still always there. The pricing could be a more significant factor, especially if the gold becomes tighter, but just to preserve that idea of summons as a specialty thing so they're not too OP, or just buddies for everyone. Being able to pre-buff a summon is very powerful, whereas if other characters had to use an action in combat for this it would also even the score I think. You know so where only dedicated casters can do that sort of stuff.

The protective bubble spell "Globe of Invulnerability" vs Endgame Bosses:

Unlike Hold Person this spell comes online very late in the game, so the issue is a bit different on that score, but it's so powerful that it subsumes and subordinates all the other battle tactics beneath it's glowing dome, once the spell is attained. I think the earliest it can be acquired as a drop is when we first visit the Astral Plane at the Gith Creche. This works alright cause there's a chance you might get Wall of Ice or Hold Monster or a few others instead, but I mean more like when we get into Act III and they can be purchases at the Sundries. The cost is high, but the spell is so effective it just feels like something that should at least have more class restriction imposed on it. Wizards can't write 6th level spell scrolls, so there is some pressure there, but just the idea that any old fighter could pop one up without really breaking a sweat. It always works, there's no potential Globe of Hella Vulnerability backfire really. I think it would be different if after casting the Globe meant being frozen in place so that character couldn't be taking additional actions while trying to maintain the Globe, or again, like maybe only Wizards and Sorcerers can pull that off? Duration could be shortened, or there could be a condition imposed when it breaks like lethargic works for Haste, just something to make that one more intense. Most Nightmares in Act III, probably start with a bubble bursting, so I don't know, just seems thematic.

There are other things and I'm sure I can keep rambling, but I just think Nightmare has a nice ring to it. When the player reaches out to touch the brine pool on the Nautiloid, like that's when we get our first glimpse on it hehe.

Nightmare - hehe - the name of a difficulty setting in Doom
I broadely agree with your ideas, Black Elk.
The encumberance thing brings back fond memories of my trips between Beregost and Wyrm's Crossing, shuttling Ankheg carapaces, with the overencumbered party mincing their way across the forest like pencilskirted geishas ...
Scroll/elixir/spell duration and summon times - all "until Long Rest" should be eliminated and cut down to 10 rounds. A few I suppose could stay at 100 rounds.

I've recently played through Trials of Tav on Honour Mode and I would say that the main things that is needed to increase the challenge are (in order of importance):

1. Less predictability:

Knowing exactly what enemy you are going to face and what they will do is the singlemost important advantage I have as a player. As soon as something unexpected gets thrown into the mix that I hadn't anticipated, things become so much harder. Beating the bosses in Baldurs Gate 3 becomes easy, because you know exactly what they will do and how to set up. If you did what Trials of Tav does and spawn in random reinforcements that will force the player to react and re-prioritize their focus, that would instantly turn the difficulty up. Make enemies more variable as well with spellcasters being able to throw surprises at you.

2. Limit the alpha strike:

The BBEG should not go down on the first turn before they even act. Give them a ridiculous initiative boost, or stick a sanctuary or invulnearbility on them when the battle starts so that they always get a chance to act and do their thing. Again it's all about forcing the player to react and adapt instead of having complete control of the battle from start to finish. If first thing that happens is that a party member goes down, or is paralysed or something where you immediately have to scramble to repair the damage, then the pressure is on the player. Again if you add the idea of reinforcements from the first suggestion, the alpha strike may be able to clear all the minions on the first turn. But if you burn all your resources on that first turn strike, then you might not have enough to deal with the ones who spawn in later, and if you don't know what those enemies are going to be, you might want to save some juice for later. Make the alert feat a bit less OP and instead make the player also have to prioritize gear and choosing the elexir of vigilance if they want to act first.

3. Give the enemies access to the same meta as the player:

Things like speed potions, strength elexirs, arcane ward and weapon coatings are all very powerful tools at the hands of the player. But if the enemy was carrying those around and made use of them as well, there would be a level playing field. Imagine a Dror Ragzlin or Minthara on a speed potion, that also is guaranteed to get at least one turn to act by implementing something from the second suggestion. Or a goblin brawler that chugs an elexir of strength is all of a sudden a much larger threat. Larger enemies like ogres should be able to do what the throw barbarian does etc.