Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Fixing Astarion's "Good" Ending

Yes the kiss animations are SM, with the emphasis on S for Astarion. Because Tav's disgusted face at the end tells us that Tav is not into it and not a masochist, but more of a victim of abuse. Ascended Astarion's character isn't particularly coherent. If he is so abusive with the kisses and Tav is disgusted, his sex scene should have been at least rape.

@Ametris: Thank you for sharing! Electrified God-Gale hugs reassure me in my tendency to make him use a lot of lightning spells. ^^

I don't have a problem with the writers doubling down on ascended Astarion being the bad route. That's the message they've been trying to convey, and they have every right to do so. No amount of cognitive dissonance or mental gymnastics makes it a good choice (in-world). I support the right to RP as an evil, power-hungry person, and the choice works well for those specific circumstances. Outside of those specific circumstances, however, it cannot be argued in any way that the choice to ascend him isn't decidedly evil. I can see making a variation for those evil Tavs who are genuinely into that kind of abuse, but I think the point is to show they got more than they bargained for.

(To any AA fans that happen to be in this thread, I am not interested in circular arguments, so please do not engage me. It would only derail the thread further, anyway.)

Back to the actual topic: I'm not surprised about the caveat for having god-Gale cure his vampirism, and I don't even mind. Larian went out of their way to avoid giving Astarion a canon eye color, so having an excuse not to cure him in-game is a good way to keep dancing around it, lol. I'm very partial to the "let's stay together and try to look for a cure" route, as it is hopeful without being shallow, like: "at some point during those six months, you found the cure, so there you go." Regardless, I don't play origin-PCs and I would never ascend Gale, so this is a very specific conversation I would never see in the first place. It sure would be odd if it was the only way for him to be cured in-game!

Romancing God-Gale and ascending with him - without sacrificing a small town's worth of people - might be considered finding a cure. ^^ But that is very niche as well. I like the ending in which you try to find a cure together best for companion-Astarion, it is hopeful and leaves room to imagine their adventures together. Though, considering all options, my favourite Spawn endings are the adventuring type epilogues with Astarion Origin and human Gale. They do a great job in portraying a loving relationship between supportive partners. I wish the spawn ending for companion Astarion had a bit more of this energy - but I have written that too often already.

So, what do you think of the new spawn kiss? I do like the old one better, it's hard to beat perfection, the new one looks a little stiff, in my opinion.

The way Astarion holds Tav's face and removes his hand looks very cute. Overall though, the new kiss looks a little bland imo. The angle is bad. You mostly just see Astarion's back and don't see their faces. This one is so much better.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qarJC1MtFss

The angle is weird (especially in armour with a cloak), neither of them seem to know what to do with their left hand and the bend of Astarion's back is somewhat odd, though the last one is better if both characters are of the same height. I do really like the start and ending of the animation though.

Although I assumed that Larian wanted to give the bad endings less satisfaction. They gave them a lot of sugar this time.

Even though it's clear to many that these kisses portray an abusive relationship, the most just find it hot. I think he could hang them upside down naked over a pig farm, they would think that he is finally himself.
Most people have already made the point that he's just evil. But isn't there much more to the character, the development, the initiation, the big statement to break the circle of evil, even if you go with empty hands.
Not having completely lost his decency after so many years of torment. It's a shame there's no focus on this.

But I'm still grateful for the hug scene in the epilogue, that is a great reflection of the confession scene.

But it would be nice to hear in the romance how he is doing back in the shadows. The dialogue is hopeful but very short in the epilogue. As a friend you get more informations from him. I understand the logic that as a partner you know more anyway, but I would also like to hear something like that from my partner.

Totally agree. As I just finished the game recently with a romanced spawn Astarion, I loved the game itself but while finishing the epilogue party and talking to Astarion something definitely felt off. Like, I understand we've been living together for 6 months already but we couldn't at least have, like, another unique scene to tie it all off? Even after the credits? Because I was NEVER able to say "I love you" to him directly - only "I care about you" "you mean a lot to me" "I'll always be by your side" ... I just feel like it would've been better to not leave it so open-ended and at least give Tav a chance to talk with him in a more wholesome setting like if you choose to settle down (which I did), become hero adventurers or take care of the other spawn in the Underdark. The epilogue definitely needs some rework done.

Yes please, let's chat about spawn Astarion for a bit.

I feel that his romanced epilogue is missing the middle portion. That you have been living together for six month isn't really an issue, the other companions also have lines that cover this time and give you some info about it. With Shart, for example, the PC discusses who tells which stories so that they don't bore their friends by telling the same tales. That's a cute way to insert some stories.

The player character in Astarion's romance is in general not the most emotionally warm creature, unfortunately. There is a "you are the person I love, the person I want" during the graveyard scene, but in general there is little opportunity to tell him that he, as a spawn is awesome and that you are his greatest fan - which is a pity.

I very much agree there is very few options to reassure him with positivity and it shows as he still doubts himself in his last stages of his arc and epilogue.
We really do need a heart to heart bit similar to his confession scene in ACT 2 as we don't see further growth from him after the cemetery scene .

The looking for a cure to his vampirism is basically the true resurrection spell that Gale has if I'm right reading the DnD players notes on it and now Gale can grant this request if he's a god this really should be a Tav and Astarion tale to tell their friends at the party.


Just my opinion of course.

If I do understand it correctly, True Resurrection only works if the person has been dead for less than 200 years. I assume they picked Astarion's age especially so that True Resurrection cannot work anymore.

I am quite happy with him not having cured his vampirism by the time of the epilogue party. I think it's quite nice for "looking for a cure" to remain a possible plot hook and not a resolved matter. What bothers me is that Astarion has all these beautiful line about equal partnership, but the game does a bad job in showing this equal partnership because the PC is not equally able to express vulnerability or support.

In the couple scene after the fall of the brain, it's quite nice and considerate of him to ask what the PC wants to do next but it would help if the PC could be just as considerate in the phrasing of their suggestions or maybe even a little enthusiastic, so that the dialogue actually felt like that there is nothing these two can't handle together.

I think that curing or not Astarion vampirism is a choice. As many people said, the magic in D&D allows a vampire to be resurrected. It is not easy and it is expensive, but it is possible.

But the real reason that I say it is a choice is Minsc. If they have come up with a "reason" for Minsc, a human, to be still around 200 years after the original Baldurs happened and also have Sarevok, another human who might have died or not, they could also find reasons or ways to cure Astarion. Maybe they want that for a DLC or Baldurs 4, who knows? But in a fantasy game, it is possible. Also, they have bent the rules whenever it suits them. That is ok, but they have to own their choices.

I'm also quite happy with the fact that the cure is something they are searching for together in the future and not something that suddenly happens. It also shows that finding a cure is not the most important thing for him as he's quite happy where he is.


Yeah, I'd really like a more supportive answer than what we have. The DUrge line about choosing their family is a bit better than the Tav one, but still not enough. I always just want to hug him when he is all "is this what you want?" ha ha.

In the epilogue I wouldn't mind a reminiscence scene in the forest clearing even if it's just for a talk. Yeah, they have been together every night for the past 6 months but as a player I don't know what they have been doing.

(I guess we will never get an improvement for the dock scene)

Not quite in my opinion. He tells Sebastian he brought him to Cazadors 170 years ago and that he was one of the first. Which would fit as he would likely remember early conquests before numbing his mind as time went on.
Unless Caz kept Astarion around doing not very much for 30 years it seems likely to me that Astarion has been a Vampire/undead for well under the 200 year threashold.
I always thought they had done this deliberately to leave options open as they developed the game.

About the timeframe:
Isn't the game set in 1490-something? I believe the date on his tombstone is 1268, that would make it more than 200 years, but I can be wrong.


Putting too much emphasis on finding a cure also feels very much like an affirmation that being a vampire spawn is indeed something "lesser" that should be remedied - though I can understand that some people might need it for their perfect happy ending.


It's such a missed opportunity to not have a "There is nothing I want more." as the reply and then pull him into a hug! ^^

I also imagined that they would maybe take a quiet stroll to the forest clearing, though that would probably not mingle too well with the rest of the party unless you make it the outro - like when you leave with God-Gale. I really hope they'll at some point give him that couple-portion of the party dialogue - and switch the comments from the dock scene to the ones from his Origin.

I agree. For me the cure is not for his vampirism but to find something that enables him to walk in the sun. Like Dragomir's Cape from BG2.


That's some good ideas. I'm quite happy with what we got and I feel greedy to want more when other romances are still broken (looking at you, Minthara) and there are too few friendship moments, but ... I'd not be opposed to a little rework in som definitive edition.

It's a bit odd too. When picking the "find a way to walk in the sun again" option, I was originally also thinking about getting an artefact for him (or making one for him if your PC is an overachieving wizard), which sounds like a great adventure. I was really surprised when this changed to finding a cure for vampirisim in the epilogue.

I also always feel so greedy when asking for new stuff or changes. Especially since this patch basically gave me an absolutely perfect ending - narratively as well as emotionally - for my Spawn Origin-Astarion at least.

Hi guys! I read the first posts and i felt like i needed to support the ending changes. Feels good not to be alone in this!

First of all, disclaimer, i adore the game, i really love it. But as much as i generally love the writting, the ending makes no sense and looks like someone organized the scenes without caring for the character relationships. Its the Scarlet Witch situatuion all over again!

Second, i share my life with an abuse Survivor. We went through a lot of pain and tears, and still are +15 years together, so with Astarion i went like 5 steps ahead of his reactions. He is so very well written, i only miss some reference to nightmares. Heck, the scene with the mirror, when Tav jumpscares him and he get a bit defensive? My partner jokingly asked to me more than once to please wear a little bell so i can go around the home without scare them shitless. His rushes after drinking blood? Meds to be able to function! The constant need for reassuring? so much on spot. When he finally stands up for himself and say NO the first time? That is a HUGE milestone, more than people realize(i might have cried a little, watching it). You have to pour your soul in a relationship like these. For a world without therapy, Astarion makes good progress so damn fast.

So imagine my surprise when at the end, after saving the world, after so much character development, the companions (in my case Gale) jokes about Astarion while he catches fire and runs. It really is not ok.
Imagine if someone, friend or not jokes about my rl partner while they are in a life or death situation. I would probably at least break his nose. haha Gale, try to laugh now. But no, i would run like hell trying to find a safe spot while unclasping my cape to trow it over him and then dimension door us to safety. He probably cant even see where he's going.

Instead of something like that, we just look him run, and then Karlach grabs Tav's attention because she's burning. Something that we discussed twice, girl. GIRL. I dont care right now? Go to Hell (literally, not insulting her) or burn, what do you need me for? I have like 60 approval with you! Why do we have an aproval system? Why it feels like the game is making us choose between the two, and then, choosing for us? In a game about choices? Another weird nonsensical dialog with Karlach is she yelling at us for having fun and making love. We are...not...doing that? He can't? Are you dumb? He's probably waking up screaming from terrors every night? She shouldnt say that if the player is romancing Astarion. As others say, im probably just not rescuing her lil attention seeker-*** next time :')

I believe Wyll also says something but i played the first run without spoilers and i didnt know if Astarion was going to survive or not, so i didnt pay much attention.

Also it is very weird because when the characters fight the brain, its daylight, you can see in the citizens scenes that is afternoon. The sun is low when they are talking at the port. So... why? Just for the joke? I dont get it.

It would partially solve it if the order changes, as other person already said. We see everyone's scenes and the last one is Astarion. And if the aproval is at least 70, friend or lover, the whole group should run after him. Or at least the party members you took the most. In my case, Selune Shadowheart and Minsc or Halsin, but they arent there.

But the good thing would be not victimizing him further. He could notice the heat and say something like; "well shit, time to go, see you at camp! and teleport himself to safety. Gale can have the dumb insufferable package for the "in case of death situation" but Astarion cant have a "run to safety" package? he has a 12 starting INT, i believe, he is not an idiot and paraphrasing him "im the definition of careful". Just pack a very thick black hood and a bunch of teleport scrolls.

To go and make this, so catastrophically wrong, just go back to the little ending cards, like in PoE, say "and they went out together, to look out for themselves and for a cure!" and make them as ambigous as possible, so we can use, you know, our little theather of the mind C': ...and is probably cheaper to make, win win.

Thanks for reading, and sorry for the wall of text, or if i sound mean (this hits real close to personal experiences), or made a typo, english is not my first language^^"

No worries, this is the thread for disliking the dock scene afterall. ^^

The intent is to show that with the tadpole gone, he really isn't protected from sunlight or the other downsides of being a spawn anymore. But the comments from the other companions are unnecessary and turn something that should be dramatic into a joke. They are neither good for the scene, nor for the characters and I much prefer the version from the his Origin, where they all urge him on to take shelter.

I think Karlach's outburst after killing Gortash is alright the way it is, she is messed up in that moment and you aren't always most considerate at such occasions. What bothered me about it when playing as Astarion or Gale is the player dialogue, which can't portray a more nuanced understanding of the situation. Hearing that outburst when you are either the guy who just killed his master and took the emphatic path of letting everyone go or the other one who still also has a bomb in his chest and doesn't know what the next days may bring, hits differently. For my Origin-Gale it triggered the "if I was a decent person, I would use the orb to explode brain and crown and rid the world from such evil" spiral again. Good job, Karlach.

Edit: Though the infamous "I will protect you" line probably annoys me more than even the companion dialogue at the dock.

sure, i understand, but it really is the elephant in the room, at least Astarion and Tav know its gonna happen, it feels out of character to not take some precautions....! I might play with him as main character just to see the nice line you mention C':


She is very right to be mad, but its so easy to redirect her anger towards her own not lived experiences, instead to other characters, because it generates incompatibilities. I understand how monstrous is the dialog tree for this game, it is a challenge to tie all together for every situation, so just have her say "I will not be able to..." "I will not..." Because every origin character is a wreck. C': They went all in to create drama and conflict but it just reveal plotholes. This also adds to the feeling that the companions love Tav but they hate each other. The only nice dialogs to Astarion are from Minsc and Boo. Well, you all may hate him but he's carrying the party dmg, you know?

Its been a while, can you please add some context? I dont remember the line! Thank you C: