Larian Studios

So, I was visiting the Drow twins with romanced Gale and I think the dialogue is exceptionally poorly handled with regards to him. The PC is forced to be mean - bordering on cruel - to Gale without being given an opportunity to be considerate of his feelings. By comparison, when you are in the same situation with Pre-Cazador Astarion, who also objects, you can be nice to him. So why is this apparently out of the question for Gale?

The text selection after listening to the twins’ offer reads as follows:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/DFshrH2_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand[/img]

The first option is pretty stupid because it treats Tara like a pet. Anyone who has spent a bit of time with Gale knows that Tara is more of a maternal friend to him, who also frequently gossips with his mother. She is basically his cat-aunt. It makes sense that he might not want to have her in the room. Disregarding his objection does not only make the PC seem unkind and dismissive of Gale’s feelings, it also shows that they probably haven’t paid any attention to him before either. By contrast, the way the epilogue addresses this topic is very sweet. Gale has different reactions to the PC depending on whether Tara is around or not and during the kiss, she averts her gaze and cleans her paw. The epilogue has the air of playful, teasing banter that most of Gale’s romance has (and he even has good comebacks for the more teasing lines) while the brothel scene just feels heartless.

The second option reminds me strongly of a line from Astarion’s Act 2 romance dialogue: “You should learn to enjoy sex for your own pleasure, and you should enjoy it with me” where it clearly is a horrible selection, met with an appropriate outcome. Why should he? And why shame Gale of all people who is one of the most open minded companions of the whole bunch?

The third option sounds like the least offensive one but can lead to the worst outcome if you succeed - probably the one example where you want to save-scum to fail - and overall still holds disregard for his wishes.

So why is there not a single choice that allows you to show concern for Gale, his feelings and wishes, like a decent person would? It's not only mean to the character, it also characterises the PC in a very uncharitable light. I’d suggest changing the first option into some actual kind-heart teasing that is more in line with the usual flirty dialogue of Gale’s romance and give him a voice line to match.

Lastly - and this might apply to all romantic partners in this situation - there is no dialogue option that accounts for either the player or their character to have cluelessly bumbled into this part of the conversation without being interested in an orgy at all. An option that says “this is not for me” regardless of what your romanced companion desires should also be added.

Thank you for creating this thread here. I completely agree. The interactions with romanced Gale at the brothel feel like a continuation of the game making digs at Gale’s expense.

Genuinely if Gale was a female character this would widely be considered off-putting and icky, but because he’s a guy it’s just “haha that’s funny!” It’s kind of like the whole relationship disparity between Mystra and Gale isn’t regarded the same way it would if the gender roles were reversed.

On my first playthrough I kept getting a feeling that the female companions were treated better by the game in general, but it's been a while and the game was bugged as hell back then, so I might be wrong. And I can't make myself recruit everyone and properly talk to them all again so I can't make sure.

I am not sure about Lae'zel but I feel Shadowheart didn't get her "God's favourite princess" for nothing. The one instance that comes to mind because it annoys me is when by resolving her conflict with Lae'zel peacfully, Shart gets the moral highground, despite being the cause of the whole problem.

The way the game presents different relations and sex it clearly is meant to sometimes be taken lighthearted and written as crude jokes (mature audiences and all that). Obviously bear sex was never intended as a serious intimate scene for example.

I think all the Sharess´Caress scenes are supposed to fall into this category, but in the case of Gale and Astarion they are both in poor taste to me. Gale being coerced into something he is hesitant towards, and being uncomfortable and cringing at the prospect, is not funny to me. Neither is Astarion going into disassociation and having a traumatic reaction.

If the writing had been intended as more serious and if they had chosen to give Halsin a more serious role rather than just sex jokes, I would have given Halsin the role of using this as a teaching moment. Instead of joining he would be lecturing Tav on how sex can be great and fun when everyone are participating willingly and on equal terms, but he does not condone it when it causes discomfort. Instead he becomes an enthusiastic and willing contributor to something which causes these people discomfort and adds another layer of uneasiness by also adding a dialogue with the suggestion that sexual abuse can be fun and enjoyable (re-written in the latest patch to make it slightly less disturbing, but it is still weird to throw that into this context).

I also agree with the notion that some of you bring up that for some reason it is more ok to make these jokes and laugh about male character´s reactions and issues towards sex. If you replace the character in the Astarion or Gale scenario with Shadowheart, I think there would be a much larger criticism that it is not appropriate. The criticism towards Shadowheart not being purely monogamous for some reason garners much greater attention than the fact that two male characters are put into sexual situations that they are not comfortable with or causes trauma and we are supposed to...laugh at it I guess?

As said in a different thread, the whole drow twins orgy is best to just avoid and ignore.

Shart's sharran wound - you get 5 questions to ask her about it, one of them is neutral and the rest are nice and/or caring. Compare that to asking Gale about his condition. Or asking Astarion about vampiric hunger... oh wait, we can't. She's also the only one who'll show you her memories in an actual animated cutscene.

Lae'zel's writing felt the most "neutral" to me.


She's the most romanced companion, after all. As for Astarion, I think a lot of people who bring him there just don't get what's going on with him in general. I find Halsin's whole thing, not just the orgy, even more uncomfortable than usual when Astarion's involved, because in that case Halsin's trying to insert himself into a relationship where one of the parties is going through all that and the game never addresses how out of line that is. And the dialogue in the drow scene is so goddamn cringe when Halsin's involved, i have a hard time believing an adult wrote that.

For Gale as shitty as those dialogue options are, at least you shouldn't be surprised at that point, because it's apparently a running theme with him.

I am not even sure what they were going for with the orgy. At the moment my best bet would be: Making fun of thirsty players or those who care for their romanced companions. I might not even be that far off because the whole "Daddy Halsin" joke is pretty obviously making fun of players.

The odd thing about the orgy is, while I am very uncomfortable with the player character and Halsin in the scene, I am mostly impressed with Gale himself. He was coerced into an extremely uncomfortable situation - by someone who should know better - but gets himself out of it in the end. Rooting for Gale probably isn't the intent of the scene though, otherwise he would have been allowed a few choice words in the aftermath and an opportunity to send the player character packing.

In regards to Halsin I wish they would make his proposition trigger only if you talked with him about past lovers before. It's one of the reasons he gives for approaching you, if I remember correctly, but currently it doesn't track if you actually talked with him about the subject. Because I completely agree regarding to Astarion, in addition to the overall situation, Halsin also had the worst timing in my game. But we've already had that in one of the other threats on the subject.


Coming from all the discussions, yes. Coming purely from his romance, it's a change, at least to me. I might forget something, but if memory serves, you can always pick answers that indicate you are just as smitten with him as he is with you and most of the teasing is written like good natured banter, while the mean lines are more direct. That's besides the point that you learn in his Act 2 romance Gale is more into the whole Weave thing because it's about joining souls and sex is described as "the exploration and acceptance of the self and the other" in his tantra book, add to this all his self-doubt issues and that whole brothel conversation gets a bit worse still. Especially, if you consider that you have three chances to opt out off his whole Weave-Tantra things if you uncomfortable with it, to which he complies without complaint and still tries to make everything as nice as possible.

^^ But what the brothel needed more than anything, was of course, a cut scene.

I think whole Sharess caress thing should be looked at by devs. Especially regarding Halsin. I despise Halsin's interactions there with my whole heart. Without Halsin it's bearable I guess, except for Gale, Gale has it dirty.

I realised yesterday evening that the whole brothel situation is about three rooftops and maybe half a gameplay hour - if you dawdle - away from where you meet Tara and make plans to visit his home and get properly introduced to the tressym. It gets so much worse in context - probably akin to the swimming situation with Shart.

I haven’t had any involvement in this situation in game but wanted to upvote this post so Larian and others see it, as I agree whole heartily about them not taking Gale’s feelings into account, as a lot of people seem to not care about Gale’s feelings in general, as it’s not fair and not right that both him and Astarion are forced into something that they are really uncomfortable with. You’re right that if female characters reacted the way Gale does in this or any other situation, then they would be treated with understanding respect, so why don’t the men get the same respect? Abuse and discomfort affect everyone regardless of gender. I’m sick of the toxic attitude in this world that men’s feeling don’t matter or are treated as a joke, it’s not fair, especially considering how kind hearted and emotionally deep Gale is, and how important consent and feelings are to him.

So please Larian be more considerate of Gale’s and other Male characters feelings, in any situation, and make sure the player character can be supportive of their feelings too.

(Also supportive of their interests, I remember at the Teifling party I could only react sarcastically to Gale’s story about liking to spend nights at home by the fire, which I thought sounded lovely but didn’t have an option to be nice to him.)

Just adding more kind/supportive options in general of Gale and other male characters, I know I’m only part way through the game atm, but I was already worried about situations where his feeling might not be considered, I had hoped that wouldn’t be an issue in this game, so I’m sad and disappointed to see it is, and I hope they fix it soon.

No, you cannot be a fellow nerd. I am not sure if it is different for other spellcasters but even Bards apparently don't like quiet nights with a book. Though you can have a nice conversation about Tara in the follow up. What bothers me in the brothel is that he doesn't have even fitting replies to all that, which he is usually allowed to have, even if you fail that persuasion role he is still nice.


That would be lovely, yes.

I was so sad I couldn't share the same interests as Gale in that moment, and I honestly didn't think at the time whether classes could effect your answers or not in that situation, but I guess it's a good it doesn't since I'm a Ranger and not a Wizard or anything. But yes the conversation about Tara was really sweet. (I really do hope they add more supportive options in general, as it would be so lovely as you said. Plus being able to share his interests would be amazing too, as I have a lot in common with him irl)

But wow I can't believe that Gale isn't even given the chance to properly respond, (like wtf?) I mean first he's feelings aren't considered or taken seriously, and then he isn't allowed to properly/fully express his feelings and issues about the situation? that's just seriously messed up, and honestly disgusting of Larian. The characters always get to respond to different situations, with different lines, so why not in that situation too. I know I'll never have any involvement in Sharess’ Caress myself, but It's so disheartening and appalling to know that it's in the game and that Larian treats him with such little to no respect, (especially since people already make fun of Gale in general) I really hope they seriously fix it soon. But I'm at least glad to see that some people are bringing light to the situation and defending Gale, so thanks for bring the issues up, as I would never have encountered that issue myself, as more people need to hear about it, as it addresses broader issues as well.