Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Can Anyone Explain Ironhand and (Deep) Gnome History in Baldur's Gate?

One of the subplots I like most in this game is the Ironhand and Gondian rivalry. The characters are all intense and have the best interpersonal drama. But I feel like I'm missing some actual context for this story... We only hear what one character tells us about the situation, and a few things about the rest of it don't make sense to me even after going over everything I could in BG3.

I was just wondering if someone could tell me what happened in Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 that led to the Ironhand gnomes being banished? I couldn't find anything about this when I looked it up. If you play as any gnome in BG3, gnome reactivity offers the option to say all gnomes suffered because of their siding with Sarevok, and you can recognize the current Ironhands in their "fight for gnomish freedom." But I don't know how they actually got banished or what they actually did for Sarevok?

If you can't summarize, can you at least point me to what chapters and/or areas of the previous two games mentioned these things? It's just going to take such a long time to play the games to find out (but I will!), so I thought I might ask if anyone here knew the lore related to this.

Also, any chance anyone knows which writer was responsible for this particular part of the game? They made groups that are so underappreciated and divisive (artificers, gnomes, Gondians) have some of the most interesting drama and I'd like to know what else they've written. Thanks!

No, neither of these factions were present or even mentioned in the old games. I don't think there even is a single Svirneblin in BG1. There are some in BG2, but in their own Underdark home.

But, Gaerdal Ironhand and Gond are Forgotten Realms deities; both heavily busy with inventions; which is why they're rivals. Gond isn't necesarily a Gnomish faith, though, while Ironhand certainly is.

I don't recall BG3 going into detail about the Gondians or the Ironhand gnomes. However, I do feel that BG3 stays faithful to canon Dungeons and Dragons lore.

I looked up Forgotten Realms regarding Gond, Sarevok, and Iron Throne.

Regarding Gond:

Regarding the Iron Throne/Sarevok:

Thank you both for your responses! Someone told me wrong about BG1 & 2, claiming there was dialogue in BG2 that indicated svirfs weren't welcome in Baldur's Gate still. And that the Gondians helped Gorion's Ward? I couldn't find anything about that. I think they just misremembered.

I'm still confused about why Gaerdal Ironhand would have any rivalry with Gond when they're technically of different domains and Flandal Steelskin is supposed to have a portal to Gond's workshop or be strong allies with him? The only relevant information I could find in Forgotten Realms sourcebooks was a single quote in Faiths & Avatars saying "Gnomes may be Gondsmen. This vocation is frowned on in most gnomish communities, but Gond is slowly gaining acceptance among gnomes." (page 63)

Also trying to figure out whether or not "Nebelun" is the same god as Gond has been very confusing for me since many sources differ on it!

In BG3 there are a couple books in Gyldro Angleiron's that sort of explain Wulbren's entire rivalry with them, though.

Ironhand Gnomes: Our Grievances

Runepowder and the Modern Gnome

I can't figure out how to include images so I'll link to them instead...

It's my belief that Runepowder and the Modern Gnome was written by Wulbren's grandfather, and Ironhand Gnomes: Our Grievances was most likely written by one of his parents? Or at least dictated to him, since he would have no way of knowing himself. So I suppose the Bongles are from this traditional gnomish background where they think it's wrong to follow a non-gnomish god, as if it's abandoning their people or something.

Given the time between Gond's avatar arriving in the form of a gnome in Lantan (1358DR), after which a lot more gnomes started worshipping him, and the events of the first Baldur's Gate game (1368DR) were ten years apart, I could see them still being slow to accept the change (it's wrong, but I could see them viewing it that way). The smokepowder part definitely adds urgency and conflict because it's way more of a war domain thing than an inventor thing, and having the biggest weapon is a huge threat. And it might explain why this "Unfortunate Runepowder Incident" even happened. I imagine old Wolverforce obsessively trying to outdo the Baldurian Gondians by proving he has the biggest explosive. ;P

I think a lot of the plot must have been personal, since their actions didn't align with everything I could find on being an Ironhand follower and the Grievances book is obviously propaganda. It's just mortals being wacky. And since svirfs apparently don't really have documented or well-documented history, they might just believe whatever anyone tells them about their past.

Well I'm glad to find out it seems like this conflict was entirely made up for BG3! Why, I have no clue, the decisions are kind of odd and some things make no sense or seem unfinished, that's also probably one reason I got overly invested in it (is it a mystery or are there just no answers to be found?). The idea that the Gondians would just say no to the Ironhands allying with them before for years when they weren't actively threatening them is confusing lol. (Unless they were? Idk that's never expanded on. You don't want more hands on deck to help you build city infrastructure?) But it was still a very fun, dramatic part of the game to me! Never thought I'd become this interested in svirfneblin lore, or Gond, of all gods haha.

Also I apologize for not thanking either of you earlier, I posted this thread in the middle of the night during a manic episode and genuinely did not believe I actually posted it. Whoopsie!

I'm here to answer one of my own questions briefly, in case anyone else was interested in this.

The writers of Wulbren and Barcus:

https://twitter.com/quirkiltons/status/1759342127106977877

Rachel Quirke says she is "the writer of a bunch of Wulbren's stuff" in this tweet, and she mentions in the replies that Sarah Baylus wrote Barcus.

Apparently Sarah Baylus was also the one who wrote Wulbren's Spattered Diary, which is one of the few things people in the Barcus & Wulbren spaces use to discuss his possible complexity. I thought aspects of this sideplot were inconsistent and unfinished before, but it seems like this was the intended outcome. (And there may not always be discussion between the writers to include such things?)

More than likely, someone else also wrote part of Wulbren's dialogue or story, but I don't know who. Rachel Quirke is Auntie Ethel's writer, but I recall D.E. Chaudron mentioned writing her Vicious Mockery lines: https://twitter.com/DeathMeetAuthor/status/1711446814325444688 so this is how they operate!

Slight frustration at no one correcting the people who assume Gondians are a race and not a religion in the writer's tweet about him while still claiming he has layers... He was voted the most hated character in the game. He doesn't seem complicated to anyone but the twenty people online who are (or were, I admit reluctantly) trying to make their own sense of his irrational and inconsistent behavior. I guess the human Gondians also didn't live in anyone else's playthrough?

I finally played through Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition, though I've yet to play BG2. Gondians do exist in that game, and you can even visit the Hall of Wonders and High House of Wonders! I know there are svirfneblin in the Underdark in BG2, but not sure about the mention of their banishment from the city yet.

In older Forgotten Realms sources and Dragon articles, Gaerdal Ironhand didn't even exist. I'm not sure which text was the first to introduce him into their pantheon, but the Ironhand/Gondian conflict is definitely entirely new to BG3.

So it appears there are no secret missing answers that make the way Wulbren acted make more sense, if anyone else came to this post hoping for that. Just what we already have in the game, which, now that I know what I know, is probably just hatred that Gondian gnomes left Ironhand for Gond, possible economic class-related frustrations, and what he believes Gondians did to his own family (although it's likely not how it actually happened. Wulbren seems to be from a very mentally unwell family. Give all the deep gnomes therapy).

I like the idea of runepowder being introduced to the Realms because it's an even bigger threat and could change who holds power in this universe, but it doesn't seem like more can come from it with the way it was resolved in BG3, and I heard there are no plans to make a BG4, at least from Larian.

yes that is in the Korgan backstory but as a full evil nutter with a early sidequest against vamps the odds are good most people skip him or just die before learning about it