Originally Posted by Sai the Elf
Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by ldo58
If you didn't take damage and primarily used cantrips and scrolls.... HOW would limiting long rest make anything more difficult ? You dont even need any rest after that battle. No HP loss, only 1 spell slot lost.

I can't even imagine how you defeat the entire Shar army in HoG using only cantrips. Except maybe if SH can persuade them to change sides and they fight eachother while you're on the sidieline ? But I wouldn't consider that too easy combat. Just clever roleplaying.

Something's not equating here. There must be a more serious inconsistency in the system to allow you to do that, than having frequent long rests. Shouldn't you address the "how was it even possible to do this using only cantrips" ? Why were you invulnerable ? How did cantrips do so much damage to obliterate an army that has outnumbered and outgunned you, and that you should therefore be able to defeat only by clever tactics ?

That would be useful for Larian. And also for players who don't find it too easy.

The long rest suggestion is only one of many that I have.

Regarding the fight, I used *scrolls* and cantrips (along with the insect plague spell slot). The scrolls are a big part of that.

First, my characters have high initiatives, either through dex, items, and/or alert. That goes a long way.

Second, because I'm going first, I completely control the battlefield. Insect plague, sleet storm, etc. My main is a draconic sorcerer (white) who focuses on cold spells. (No, I do *not* use water to create the wet condition.) I have the snowburst ring which allows my ray of frost spells to create ice surfaces under targets. This causes just about all of them to fall prone. When you add in areas that are difficult to move through in large combats like this, it helps you stay in complete control of the entire fight.

A couple of summons (familiar, Us, cambion) block the rear and slow things down there. As I recall, I also kept Astarion in the back with them. His AC is rather high (25) helping him avoid hits. Meanwhile, he's using poison attacks.

I also have two characters in my party with counterspell. That helps keep everything under control, especially if you're selective about which spells you keep enemies from casting.

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Seriously, even streamers who aren't great at the game (in my estimation) are getting through honour mode rather easily. If you get a chance, watch WolfheartFPS's playthrough. While I always watch his channel and appreciate his content, I think his playstyle is--as of late--lackluster and underwhelming, but even he's walking through most of the encounters. Now, in fairness, he long rests *a lot* more than I do, but whatever. The point remains.

*

I don't really know how to stream, but I'd be happy to provide some example gameplay of what I do if I can figure it out and if anyone would care to see.
Your build seems pretty OP, are you sure you're not Min-Maxing?,

Because if so, that might be why it's so Easy for you, also your Strategy is pretty well planned, I wouldn't have thought about doing combat that way.


1) A full-scale fight in House of Grief cannot be won with just cantrips and scrolls - I know it's easy, but let's not overstate it, okay?

2) The fight in HoG is not a good example with which to demonstrate how easy/hard BG3 is. It's a very manageable fight by design.

Why? The only high level potential enemy here is just a level 11 Cleric. All other possible enemies are capped at level 7 - very low levels in Act 3. Except for the level 11 Cleric, not a single enemy here is equipped with magical weapon or armor. They do not have scrolls, potions, special arrows or other throwables. None of them has access to damage-based arcane spells. Unless you defy their unique protection feat and choose to use Radiant damage/spells against them, thereby assisting enemies to kill your own party, you are supposed to have an easy fight here. This is essentially a duel between Shadowheart and her direct rival in the game. Story-wise, everyone else is supposed to be a bystander who may take a side to join the fight. Shadowheart, being a Trickery cleric if not respeced through the game, can take control of the entire battlefield from the start. If the player party is already level 12, the whole fight is practically a walk in the park even on the currently hardest possible difficulty settings.

My first playthrough at HoG: it was on Tactician. Once I examined every NPC here, Shadowheart walked down the stairs for a chat and then fought the entire House of 20 enemies. I chose to tease enemies. To tease them, Shadowheart disarmed 3 enemies and Jaheira disarmed 2 more, though my Dark Urge and Karlach killed 3 (I could have chosen to disarm more, but it was impossible to aim 3+ extra targets so I gave up). To have fun, Jaheira's Dryad laid down a spike field under the feet of that level 11 Cleric. All this was during the very 1st round of combat. Before the fight, I spent 2 spell slots to get 6 skeleton archers. Now, during the first round, 6 skeletons formed a circle around Shadowheart - it was her fight anyway. Shadowheart did not lose a single HP here, though she did receive a permanent curse. What else can I say? No scrolls, no potions, no consumables, no throwables, no tricks, no barrels, no fireballs, no Haste spell... Nobody used anything like that. It was just a 100% tavern brawl between Shadowheart backed by my party of level 11 and a level 11 Cleric with her 19 followers. When Viconia became the only hostile left, I decided to let her remain invisible. As a result, she surprised us with Divine Intervention, killing 3 of my skeleton archers. She then pleaded to Shadowheart for our life by demanding Shadowheart to hand over Shadowheart - definitely a bug. The full-scale brawl was an exciting, fun, very satisfactory experience.

Additionally, Shadowheart can limit the scale of the fight in HoG if she has taken a different story path.



=== My opinion about how to further increase difficulty ===

The difficulty comes from a lot of sources. Ultimately, if you want a challenge, you have to fight higher level enemies.

Why are the Gith patrols difficult for most players to fight? Because you can run into them at a (much) lower level.
Why do you get a clean party wipe, instantly, if you choose to defy a semi-goddess in the game? Because she is a very, very high-level NPC.

So, before Larian Studios decides to "level up" the existing NPCs to challenge you, how about you deliberately under-leveling your party?

That is what I did. Playing on Tactician for 500+ hours and I have not died once yet. On the one hard, what matters most is exploration and having fun. So the easier the game, the better. On the other hand, I think by deliberately under-leveling a bit and staying away from scrolls, potions and frequent resting, I have made the game just harder enough for me to enjoy combat. After all, I now have to be careful and use tactics to avoid damage and stay alive with as little healing as possible (ideally no healing at all). My main characters have never backed down or otherwise avoided violence. We didn't even kneel, though I heeded Lae'zel repeated warnings and avoided a disaster which would have broken my no-death record. Once I have time I'll get my Honour run done.

Last edited by Henry NYC; 28/12/23 01:32 AM.