I regularly came across opinions like "If you love Astarion, don't ascend him or you'll lose him" or "Astarion needs someone to take care of him and keep him safe, including from himself".
Wow, what horrible takes. One could counter argue this by saying 'if you loved him you'd allow him the freedom to make his own choices and help him out; even if you don't entirely agree you at least respect him to be the master of his own fate.' And he doesn't need anyone, he's not a stray little cat who requires a caretaker. If you kill Cazador without him he even acknowledges that he's aware that the power might have got to him. It's still a risk he was willing to take to be free. I really don't like how the persuasion attempts are framed. To me they make Tav look manipulative. It's even more apparent when you talk to him after killing Cazador on your own and he asks you if you did it for him or if you were afraid of him getting that power. The honest option is saying you did it for him and the deception is saying the ritual had nothing to do with it. The rest is admitting you didn't want him to finish the ritual himself. Thus, you can only see the ritual as something that Astarion shouldn't gain access to or prioritise killing Cazador over Astarion ascending. It would have shown genuine concern if Tav actually could say 'You don't need this power, you're strong and valuable the way you are now. You're already better than Cazador' or 'There are people who care about you and will support you if you need help. We can face any challenge together'. Or actually express fear: 'I worry what the ritual will do to you, that it might corrupt you. That there's some hidden catch. I cannot bear to lose you.'
I also have a problem with how the game is forcefully trying to pull at your heart strings when you meet the trapped spawn. There are 7000 of them, yet the only ones who you talk to are children and a sweet young man so you'd feel sorry for them. When you tell Astarion that in another life you'd have been one of his victims, a fool who wanted to love him he actually says that many of his targets were petty criminals, street drunkards and brothel-goers. That people like Sebastian only happened from time to time. The majority of the spawn are actually questionable or even downright reprehensible individuals. They are in a much worse state than he'd ever was, completely ravenous, as he puts it. Why doesn't the game show us these people, only the innocent folk? I'll also quote Nyloth's post from another thread that is also portraying the game as sketchy when it comes to the ascension:
Originally Posted by Nyloth
At the moment of the ritual, the emphasis is on how evil the ritual is, however, the narrator does not mention that releasing thousands of spawns puts thousands of people at risk. Living people. The narrator speaks negatively only about the ritual. Instead, they could show a neutral opinion, for example: "If you perform the ritual, then thousands of souls you have ruined will go to hell. But if you release them, thousands of people may suffer from their actions." The second is never mentioned, although later in the game it is shown that spawns do cause damage to living creatures.
We already know Astarion is manipulating Tav into helping him out, but I wish the game wouldn't do the same to make you go for the different outcome and stayed neutral.
Originally Posted by Marielle
Originally Posted by Ametris
It's pretty much this: Spawn = Astarion lite for more sensitive people, and Ascendant = full Astarion experience for the daring ones.
It seems to me that Astarion - Spawn - on the contrary, is a powerful blow to the psyche of sensitive people (though it depends on what they are sensitive? To Astarion, or to some ideas of "goodness", what "right" relationships should be, and so on). And the Ascended did make me braver.
I mean it as the Spawn is the 'good', more humane, sweeter, Wyll-like Astarion who changes for you and Ascendant the guy who is not ashamed of his darkness, embraces his vampiric nature, asks you to join him and takes you for a wild ride. The game simply handled it poorly when it comes to his dock scene. Then again we could make an argument that it shows that Astarion had been right all along - that being a hero is not worth it and no one really cares about him other than Tav. It's a shame the game doesn't allow the player to actually control Tav in that moment, which is rightfully criticised.
And they keep pushing - SH said earlier - "this is a bad idea" (about spawns freedom), but in patch 5 it's cut out
