Wow, what horrible takes. One could counter argue this by saying 'if you loved him you'd allow him the freedom to make his own choices and help him out; even if you don't entirely agree you at least respect him to be the master of his own fate.' And he doesn't need anyone, he's not a stray little cat who requires a caretaker. If you kill Cazador without him he even acknowledges that he's aware that the power might have got to him. It's still a risk he was willing to take to be free. I really don't like how the persuasion attempts are framed. To me they make Tav look manipulative. It's even more apparent when you talk to him after killing Cazador on your own and he asks you if you did it for him or if you were afraid of him getting that power. The honest option is saying you did it for him and the deception is saying the ritual had nothing to do with it. The rest is admitting you didn't want him to finish the ritual himself. Thus, you can only see the ritual as something that Astarion shouldn't gain access to or just prioritise killing Cazador over Astarion ascending. It would have shown genuine concern if Tav was able to say: 'You don't need this power, you're strong and valuable the way you are now. You're already better than Cazador' or 'There are people who care about you and will support you if you need help. We can face any challenge together'. Or actually express fear: 'I worry what the ritual will do to you, that it might corrupt you. That there's some hidden catch. I cannot bear to lose you.'
Yes, manipulate to make Astarion more "comfortable" for Tav and those around him. I myself never wanted to "fix" him or prevent him from "gaining power" (love and "fixing" are, in my opinion, completely different things and don't go together). I "fell for" this very thing:
Originally Posted by Ametris
I also have a problem with how the game is forcefully trying to pull at your heartstrings when you meet the trapped spawn. There are 7000 of them, yet the only ones who you talk to are children and a sweet young man so you'd feel sorry for them. When you tell Astarion that in another life you'd have been one of his victims, a fool who wanted to love him he actually says that many of his targets were petty criminals, street drunkards and brothel-goers. That people like Sebastian only happened from time to time. The majority of the spawn are actually questionable or even downright reprehensible individuals. They are in a much worse state than he'd ever was, completely ravenous, as he puts it. Why doesn't the game show us these people, only the innocent folk? I'll also quote Nyloth's post from another thread that is also portraying the game as sketchy when it comes to the ascension:
Originally Posted by Nyloth
At the moment of the ritual, the emphasis is on how evil the ritual is, however, the narrator does not mention that releasing thousands of spawns puts thousands of people at risk. Living people. The narrator speaks negatively only about the ritual. Instead, they could show a neutral opinion, for example: "If you perform the ritual, then thousands of souls you have ruined will go to hell. But if you release them, thousands of people may suffer from their actions." The second is never mentioned, although later in the game it is shown that spawns do cause damage to living creatures.
The game does indeed do that. There are also some lines for Tav (before the ritual) that show her fear of Astarion. For example, after interrogating Peter ("I fear you more than the Elder Brain") and some others. I found it funny to read that, I thought maybe someone likes to play the coward, it happens, unusual experience too, I guess... You can "run away in fear" from the Emperor, after all. And those lines fit just fine with the scenario where Tav manipulates Astarion just to keep him from accessing the ritual. At least thanks to the diary, which gives the player a chance to stop in time and think about whether what you've just done is right. The diary writes a specific sentence in the case of refusing the ritual, and in the case of the Ascension, everything is fine, Astarion is grateful for the help.
I was heartbroken for the sweet and "kind" Astarion, it's like he just has nothing left in his life but you, you are the last thing he clings to. I know that "sweet Astarion" can be dragged into a disgusting and nasty "threesome" with Halsin, as well as going to a brothel with him. I don't even want to watch it on youtube, but I'm pretty sure he's raping himself with it and he's going to feel bad about it. Of course, it's silly to worry about something that will never happen in your game, but... I wondered, "If these (let's not say bad words) Tav Astarion are so broken that they let them do this to himself, who's to say that I don't have a similarly broken Astarion, I just don't see it?". I wish Astarion wouldn't change for someone else, I wish he would be himself, openly express himself and be free. And... There's an inherent pleasure in "pampering" the Ascended Astarion, to give him whatever he wants, even if it's a little hint like, "I'd like to see her corpse in the gutter... (about Oblodra)." It's kind of in opposition to all the ideas of "fixing" and abusing Astarion's character.
