Originally Posted by saeran
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
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Comparing the tadpole to the mythic powers in wotr is appropriate because no matter what, our character HAS to deal with them constantly.
You can compare them, I just don't see the similarity. To me the mythic paths are like the DU urges, if WotR had only the one choice of demonic path available.

As for the tadpole, it is not the antagonist of the game either, but a powergaming mechanics at this point. It could have been, if Daisy indeed was the manifestation of the tadpole, which was one possible explanation in the EA. That could have created a personal connection, which could become either antagonistic (if the player tried to get rid of the parasite) or embracing the power (which possibly could have resulted in the player becoming a mind flayer). But the emperor is not connected to the tadpole on a personal level. It's all about him being Balduran; I guess the writer thought it is supposed to be ironic, that the great hero and founder of Baldur's Gate is now a soulless monster running a shady organization in the city underground. Effectively, instead of a story about the tadpole and the protagonist, the emperor makes it about himself. And it's not like any of this matter for the endings. Regardless of how you deal with the dream person and tadpoles, what matters is whether you recruited Gale and if and how you got the hammer.

I agree with everything you're saying, pretty much. My arguments are just about what a GOOD version of the story Larian presented would look like.But your evaluation here is overall spot on.

Originally Posted by night lunatic
Yes, but depending on the origin you play the stronger the temptation is. For example, I don't see why Astarion would refuse the tadpole. Also, there's Durge, who is a slave to Bhaal without the tadpole. So you could try to play as a "good" Durge who uses the tadpole to get rid of Bhaal. And let's be real, even as a good paladin the guaranteed critical once a day is pretty tempting to me.

I agree 1000% on the dreams though. One of my earlier complaints is that the dreams should be available to everyone not just those who abuse the tadpole.

However, your point about the conquest dreams is not the fault of Daisy but rather the terrible origin system of this game. The origin system itself doesn't allow you to flesh out the goals and dreams of your character. You're right, my evil character doesn't want to burn down the city but rather rule a shadowy council behind the scenes.

Lastly, what might make Daisy simply better than the Emperor is that it wasn't shoehorned in there at the last second.

The thing about a good Durge using the tadpole is that, from what I've seen, you don't need to really use the tadpole to stay freeof Bhaal. just having it in your head is enough, you don't need to make it more powerful of give more of yourself to it. The mechanical temptations, I'm less sure about in terms of if the character would know what specificlly they get.

I think Daisy is part and parcel with the conquest dreams. She was written to be a specific type of character who would present and tempt in a specific type of way, and the dreams are part of that. As written, Daisy does not to me seem like a character that could tempt in any way beyond the most blatantly evil offerings you could think of. Obviously the origin system is part of the root cause, but I think the deeper root cause is that Larian doesn't fully understand deep character roleplay. But beyond that, this stuff is all intertwined and fully isolating them is going to miss the forest for the trees.

And lastly, how much difference in terms of quality is there between Daisy and the Guardian in act one? Really think about it. If you ignore everything past the parts of act one we get in early access, how much better or worse is either one? Wecan say the guardian is worse because we know where it ends up (I too think that the stuff surrounding the emperor is less than great) but I think if we judge what we had of Daisy against wht we get of the guardian in that same stretch, the difference isn't that drastic and the Guardian does a better job at what Daisy was intended to do, which is tempt characters into using the tadpole.