Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion The romance with Astarion pulls you over to the "dark side".

The feeling you described is what is troubling me about Ascended Astarion, I find this mindset highly stressful (for him, for anyone who has it). It's this fearful vampire-mindset that sees danger everywhere and needs all the power and control to deal with it, that is also reflected in Velioth's scroll and in much of what Astarion says about Cazador in the begining. In the romance too. Ascended-Astarion makes his LI his spawn, something he has control over. He talks about making the LI a full vampire but - as far as I know - he never goes through with it. I don't think you can be happy with such a mindset or feel free with it - but that is a personal opinion. I don't think Spawn-Astarion needs the player character to protect him either, he is capable enough. And while the dock scene is horrible, he seems to be doing well for himself afterwards even when not in romance, so that shows he doesn't need a protective partner either.


Both he and the Dryad are happy if you pick the answers that fit the image he is trying to show to the world, bloodthirsty and a bit vain. Everyone knows you treat it as a harmless bit of fun in this case, so this also shows that you know him well and that your bond is strong. (And in some cases you can even feel sneaky for having fed false information to Orin.)

I clicked on it once to see what Astarion had to say and his reaction was hilarious. xD


Because sadly he really has nothing else besides Tav at that point. The power is gone forever, his home reminds him of his torment so he won't stay there and his siblings vanish into the Underdark. He is destined to live like a vagabond from that moment on. He keeps reliving the scene with Cazador, he even admits he's not happy with how things turned out, but it feels right. Does it though? He's probably panicking wondering what he'd done and is full of doubts. I think that's where the whole "reassessing what he wants" conversation comes into play. Since the ritual's gifts are forever off the table, he now needs to find something else for himself. He wants Tav, because it's the only thing he can have and he doesn't want to lose them too. I find his dialogues too sugary, he's saying all the right things a hero in love would want to hear. He's trying to convince Tav and himself this was the best outcome for him. He seems confident, yet after the final battle he's completely insecure and asks you to make all the decisions. He's also lying saying he'd be ok if you wanted to part ways, because if you do break up he will shout at Tav and say he made the sacrifice for them.
It just doesn't feel right to ask a guy who'd suffered so much to sacrifice himself like that. He deserves a reward for all the crap he'd endured.


Haha, so true. I let him have the pleasure of personally knifing her.

I understand Tav may become a full-fledged vampire in the future, coincidentally. Astarion says that they will drink each other's blood, and "I long to taste my blood on your lips" (quote from memory, possibly inaccurate). To become a full-fledged vampire, you have to drink the blood of your maker, and that, in this case, is exactly what will happen. Perhaps Astarion just didn't calculate that. ? Of course, that would be a kind of deception on Tav's part, and I wish I could tell him about it sometime, too bad it can't be done that way, it would be fun to see the reaction. ? That said, he never takes the opportunity to control Tav as the creator of his spawn. He never does anything bad to Tav. He just needs it for reassurance that he won't be abandoned or betrayed. He truly loves Tav and wants her to always be there for him. And "giving into his power" is the only way she can prove her love. He gives a very serious and heartfelt thank you for that: "You gave me everything. Thank you" in such a tone that you can immediately sense how important and meaningful it is to him. The problem is that Astarion does not love himself (alas, neither in the case of the Ascension nor in the case of his rejection of it), he still has his deep trauma. Ascended Astarion loves - as much as he can, and loves hard (you only have to look closely at his gaze and the way he reaches for Tav during the kiss, as if he doesn't want to let go). It's a unique relationship, he doesn't need anyone but you in this world.

As for thinking - I would call such thinking more "realistic" than "game", suitable more for real life than for a game, because in a game you want, as a rule, on the contrary, to "rest your soul" and immerse yourself in something good. But I sincerely like your vision, even though I myself do not like the Unascended Path, I now understand your point of view. It is a human, optimistic and kind view of this story.

Exactly. Otherwise, the rest of the plot, all those victories, saving Baldur and the like, just make no sense to me personally.



Yeah, I also had him take care of her in one turn. How much she pissed me off when I first met her in Moon Towers! And most importantly, there's not a single aggressive remark to her, just a polite "He said it all" and a wave of the hand. So many NPS, which can be offended, intimidated, insulted ... And here - so want to teach this bitch manners, but no, you have to do everything yourself, only through your imagination and button "attack" And a small flaw noticed - at the second meeting with her in Baldur Tav has a line : "I saw what happened to Astarion". I certainly saw it on youtube, but there's no way my Tav did. Tav doesn't even know that she has spoiled blood, it didn't even occur to me to ask Astarion why he doesn't want to bite her, I was just shocked by her insolent and boorish behavior.

I don't think Astarion will ever let them become one ('Trust me, it doesn't happen' line comes to mind). Even if Tav drinks his blood ingame, it doesn't change anything. It seems like he also has to willingly let them go while being drained for it to work. In the epilogue you can have a discussion with him about freedom and he gets annoyed about it. He fully intends to keep Tav by his side forever.


I adore that line and the way he says it. The whole time he's trying to persuade Tav to join him, he's clearly manipulating them. That's why his "I love you" doesn't sound very sincere because he is not expressing his affection but is forcing himself to say it to convince Tav. It seems like he feels awkward articulating real feelings and especially doing it right after ascending (when he feels almighty) puts him in a vulnerable position. The simple "thank you" to me is the real love confession. That's the moment where he feels 100% secure and calm and the scene is very intimate. There is no more need to put on a show and use fancy words.
His feelings are actually very intense, just look at the way he watches Tav while drinking their blood just before thanking them!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt...?lb=UgkxMx_2aDum4A9sREAByK8wXIJrQRzE1WU-


I did it to tease him, since he loves power so much. He looks adorable when he refuses her the second time and thanks you afterwards.

Yeah I don't want that myself, I just thought it might happen by accident if Tav drinks Astarion's blood during lovemaking. I, on the other hand, wouldn't do that so as not to offend Astarion So it doesn't work that way. There's basically no "unfreedom" in it, just that the title is "spawn" instead of "vampire". But nobody calls Tav a "spawn" in the game, and even if they did, she will be able to stand up for herself. By the way, I tried biting Oblodra myself (I downloaded it after Astarion killed her and tested it) - nothing, no negative effect, obviously, actions within the gameplay do not affect the story in any way.


Yes, I specifically left a save before this scene and periodically revisit it! Just like the scene of the first night, and my favorite scene from the second act, after which I went like a fool with a smile on my face for a couple of days... This has never happened to me in any game, there have been interesting romances, there were "favorites" that I always carried around with me and laden with the best artifacts, but to be like Astarion, this is the first time. Maybe because of the living face and the fact that he looks like a real person, or his character and his story, I don't know. Games are really reaching some new level right now.


I'll ask him on my next pass, I want to see it.

It also doesn't make sense she makes no comment about you being a spawn. She should have recognised it immediately and even been surprised that Astarion had become a vampire lord. After his refusal to bite her, she should be asking Tav to provide instead.


Let's not forget the phenomenal voice acting and expressive animations! Astarion really stands out among other companions in these respects.


The exchange is also longer and more interesting. If you're a drow you can even explain to him why her blood smells repulsive to him.

Yes, this scene is not well developed. The whole point of this second meeting with Oblodra is to show the difference between the behavior of Astarion the lord and Astarion, to whom the "lordship" was broken. And this scene was written, as I think, primarily for Spawn Astarion, in which case there are no inconsistencies, and even her line "Never say never" looks much more "appropriate" than when she says it to Ascended Astarion. You can also drink her dubious brew and get "unstable blood", Tav's pools of blood will periodically involuntarily catch fire during combat, maybe for someone who likes to "play with fire" it's fine, in other cases it will only hinder you and your companions in combat. Astarion amusingly scolds you in this case (no cutscene, just a small line), but no interesting cutscene with vomiting or any other "suffering" of Tav is provided, just a small "bah-bah", which can damage Oblodra's property, and she will attack you herself and call the guards. Lord doesn't always warn you right away, sometimes other companions will try to talk you out of it and interrupt his line ("Astarion Spawn" is sure to say he "doesn't want you to get hurt"), but if you do pick up the smut, it's pretty spectacular.


Yes, the voice is simply marvelous! I have never heard a more expressive and beautiful voice before, the richest intonations, how the timbre varies depending on Astarion's mood and the situation... Exquisite, aristocratic speech, to understand Astarion in the original without subtitles you need a high level of English (and it helps to tighten English, because half of the pleasure is lost in translation). I looked up the meanings of the words that Ascended Astarion uses, they are all "ancient" compliments that were used among the nobility somewhere before the early 19th century. For example, "consort" is a wife, more often in the sense of "consort of a king or emperor" (that is, by becoming a spawn of Astarion, you're actually marrying him). And animations, of course, his movements and poses are the most vivid and characteristic of all the companions.


There's a book in Cazador's castle that talks about certain blood diseases, and that it would make a vampire sick if he bit one. What does the drow tell Astarion?

He says 'I'll protect you' instead, which does sound nice. He's more confident nothing bad will happen, so it makes sense he's not as twitchy about the whole thing as Spawn Astarion is.I do wish, he'd warn you not to accept the bottle when Araj offers it though. He will spend eternity with Tav and keep drinking their blood, I don't think he'd want it to get contaminated. He only complaints when you accept the bottle and urges you to get rid of it. I guess, since he's so arrogant and proud, he expects you to be smart about it.


The voice and intonation are absolutely amazing! And yes, "consort" is indeed a spouse of a ruler. There's a reason he gets extremely hurt and lashes out if his offer is rejected. To him it's the greatest gift, honour and sign of love he can bestow upon another.


"[Drow] Her house, Oblodra was infamous for experimenting with mind flayers. Could her blood be tainted somehow?"
Astarion admits it would explain the stench and that he'd had enough illithid filth in his head and that he doesn't want it in his stomach too.

Yes, I remember that even before the Ascension, when we were talking about the ritual, Astarion said, "And I will be able to protect you" (I don't remember verbatim, he may have said it differently, but that's the gist of it). He likes being a protector, and he likes being strong, he likes caring. He says you can ask for what you want and it will be yours. And at this point, the camera stays on his face rather than jumping abruptly to Tav, which I personally enjoy. When I started the game and went through the first chapter the camera still stayed on Astarion's face after his lines (then some patch messed it up). After a bitter walkthrough with Astarion, who sacrificed everything incomprehensibly for what, it's like a breath of fresh air.


Yes, Astarion doesn't like fools Indeed, you will feel extremely foolish if you drink it for real and not for the sake of testing "for a reaction". He also swears if you wear a hag mask in search of Ethel's lair in the tavern basement and fall under her influence, but that's also a stupid thing to do and you can see he's just really nervous and worried about Tav.


And it is stronger, more lasting and unshakable than any ordinary "marriage proposal". The real bond between Astarion and Tav begins after the Ascension, and "together forever" is not just beautiful words, but the truth.


Thank you, that's interesting.

Him being your protector for once is indeed a breath of fresh air. It feels good seeing him strong and happy. He finally feels like he can offer you something and does so eagerly. That dialogue is lovely and he looks so serious when he says it. <3


The stupidest thing you can do in his eyes is becoming a mind flayer after he turns you into his consort. Some people say it's proof he doesn't love you, but I find his dialogues hilarious when he's mercilessly laughing at Tav. His reaction was very predictable. He gives you everything he can and then you throw it in the bin to play dumb heroics and become a slimy freak for a moment of glory. Even before killing Cazador he's averse to addle-headed individuals and heroism, as Ascendant even more so.


So much this! You are a team, pretty much become extensions of each other, share a bloodline. I'm sure they have a telepathic connection even without the tadpole.

Yes, you used to feel his nervousness, pain, vulnerability, and now seeing him strong and confident is a real blessing. The feeling from the game is now extremely positive.


I wonder if those who say that can imagine themselves in his shoes? Would they be able to continue loving someone who voluntarily turned into this? Exactly that voluntarily, even without any necessity - it's not necessary at all to "save Baldur". And a person who made such a choice betrays not only himself ("self-sacrificing hero" may not consider it a betrayal of himself) - he betrays first of all the one who loves him. I have nothing against illithids per se, have never chosen "illithidon-hating" remarks against the Emperor, and can perfectly well imagine a friendship with an illithid. But to imagine seeing an illithid's tentacles instead of your beloved face, hugging an illithid, or anything else (brrrrr, chills) with an illithid... I myself would probably hate such a "hero" if I were his lover. Astarion is absolutely correct in his behavior towards Tav in this case. I'll have to watch this on youtube, enjoy. I once really liked the video in which Astarion leaves Tav if she encourages him to bite Oblodra. The biting scene itself is hard, but the way he beautifully breaks off the relationship afterward is worth the discomfort of watching the biting scene. The way he rejects all her pathetic attempts to justify herself, like "Oh, I'm sorry, I won't do that again", the contempt on his face, the words like spit, he's calm and transfixed with cold disgust. I had imagined him more vulnerable before, since I've never seen Astarion like that in a game, I thought I'd have to see him hurt like that, but he handled it gorgeously, I just admired it. Astarion gives you his love, immortality, freedom from having to worship the gods (Kelemvor's wall is no longer a threat) and you after that... become an Illithid? That's funny.


It's entirely possible. Especially since the Ascendant's abilities will develop over time.

The game establishes that you lose yourself once you become an illithid, you're no longer the person your LI knew. It's another reason why he has no qualms to end things with Tav who decided to go for it. He doesn't delude himself believing things are still mostly the same like other companions do.
When I watched the vid I was laughing together with Astarion.



He also makes fun of Tav during the epilogue party calling their transformation a travesty, lol. I don't know, I just really like his laughter, especially when he's being a dick. XD One of my favourite ones is when he doesn't know about the ritual and interrogates Petras and Dalyria and trashes them for trusting Cazador. (2:27)




He also has a very good reaction if you tell the spawn who try to abduct him that they can take him. He might actually have the most possible scenes where he breaks up with Tav.

Thanks for the video!
I myself was afraid Astarion would want to become a half-illithid (when the Emperor gives larvae). He used to be ready to grab any power, and had almost a full set of larvae in his head (good thing for the companions it doesn't end up doing anything), and was ready for scandal, disapproval, or to boot - crush this scum. But he made his opinion on the matter clear.

I really love his laugh, it's something! From the moment he laughed at me in response to my line about how we can't just dump Nere. It's worth making a fool of yourself just to hear it


When the spawn try to abduct him? I didn't have that scene in the game.

Throughout the game he is disgusted by them and only likes his worm for the power it gives him. I figured he'd not want to give up his good looks for a few extra benefits. My Tav was the same. If you decide to consume another worm first, he is relieved you didn't end up with tentacles and feels encouraged to 'help himself' too because of no side effects.


It happens during the 3rd long rest in Lower City after meeting Petras and Dalyria.

And very sweetly says, "You don't share!" with adorable animation And giggles after a sentence about watching you as an experiment.

And on the topic of the video with Astarion and Tav-illithid (ha, brutal, sure, but he's pretty disappointed...) In BG3, the theme of self-sacrifice, I see, is presented from a much more realistic angle than we're usually used to seeing in games. You can get serious negative consequences, just like in life. As with Astarion, if he sacrifices himself for others, there is no "rosy fairy tale with a good ending". You have to think logically and do what is best and most beneficial for you. It seems that this makes the character "jump" back and forth from "good to evil", like a kind of "Jekyll and Hyde", but, damn it, it's much more like life, in which "justice" exists only in the form of an idea in people's imagination. And there are no elaments as such in the game, only the paladin's oath, and if you're not a paladin, you can do whatever you want in any situation.


Somebody interrupted it for me it seems - Vlaakit or Emperor with his molestations... We also very quickly rushed to Cazador, only for the Tharchiate Codex we went to the library first, I, when I saw Cazador's mark on the map, could not think of anything else, but there were three rests, it is not possible to get there right away. It's also interesting how the game managed to create a real image of the enemy (Cazador), which you really, really hate from the bottom of your heart, with all the resulting "bloody pictures in your head" in his address, really, the battle becomes a truly significant event.

Someone really needs to make a compilation of all of his laughs and giggles in the game.
The dialogue that cracks me up is when he tells you 'if you continue to get between me and what I want, I will have to find a way through you'. I can't take him seriously when his threats sound so playful and seductive.


Very true. My chaotic neutral Tav was pretty "jumpy", haha. She ended up being neutral evil in the end, because Astarion was a bad, bad influence.


Fortunately, we have a morbidly satisfying revenge scene with him.


What I find interesting is how different in tone the romance can be, depending on how you act. When you play as a good person, Astarion becomes more manipulative and tries to tug at your heart strings, speaks to your heroic, altruistic side, gets softer eventually. You often end up with longer conversations that turn into debates where he's defensive and emotional. When you're neutral, the dialogues have a smooth flow, he's at ease and shares his dark ideas more freely, but sometimes he's taking over the conversation, even sounding like he's talking to himself. And then when you're being evil you're both admiring each other's darkness, scheming together, he's making more provocative jokes, sounds sexier and more mischievous. He's very reactive and adjusts his behaviour to you.

In my game I didn't really see his soft side. In act 1 he was all about seduction, fun and manipulation. Then I had the post-Araj confession, which is more arrogant and spontaneous, and I was picking agreeable, supportive and neutral responses in general. In act 3 he got more agitated and aggressive before meeting Cazador, then ascension happened and he became even more insolent and hilariously savage. Frankly, when I first watched the spawn path outcomes I was surprised how gentle he was.

I was mostly chaotic - good/neutral overall (bleeding heart but with tactical savagery) so I can't speak for how he reacts to an evil play-through, but my feeling also was that the less patronising you are to him, the more relaxed he gets. When he, for example, mentions his plans to ask Raphael about the scars and you list all the risks this might entail, he gets defensive, but if you just agree, he shows that he is aware of all the risks himself. Treating him as a person with a good head on his shoulders - unsurprisingly - seems to work best. Even after non-ascension, the options that related more to his situation than the morality of it have the nicest flow and sound like you are in it together.

And I just wanted to add, while I am not a fan of ascendant Astarion, I do enjoy reading the discussion. =)

Oh, that would be really delicious!


And in what case does this dialog occur? I didn't have that either.


My Tav started out 100% chaotic-good (I've always had any game that has alignment (like Pathfinder) exclusively diagnose me with that as a result, and DM when we play DnD, too...). But Astarion did a good job - I have no idea now whether my Tav is a chaotic-neutral or already an evil.


It's really interesting. After the confession scene in the second act I saw mostly just the soft side of Astarion, so the sudden change of behavior after the Ascension was a bit of a shocking experience, it took time to comprehend and understand, but now I see that he was more manipulative then, and now his feelings and his tenderness are really sincere. In the first act - same as you - seducer, sweet manipulator, still in the first act he is either attracting or pushing you away. "I don't need your pity. I don't need anything from you." - shortly before lovemaking begins. Periodically snorts "how cute", cutting off the conversation, somehow "incredulous-ironic" if you can describe it that way (for example, after a dialog about scars). The kind of "hedgehog" with prickles that you want to hug, but he's ready to expose the needles. Astarion's behavior without Ascension, in my opinion, does not differ much from Astarion in the second act (other lines, yes, but in general almost the same), only he is "faded" and more serious, and in the second act he was much more playful. The Ascended is also playful, but he does it more proudly.

It's curious how differently Astarion can express himself. I'd like to try all the lines (except for all the nasty and insulting ones, of course) in all the dialogs in the future to get a more complete picture of the personality.

It's funny, but I thought about asking Raphael when I found out that the inscriptions were in the Devil's language, since he was the only Devil I knew (though I think Karlach might know Devil's, since she'd lived in Averno for a long time). And when Astarion brought it up, I was glad I'd gotten the idea.


Yes, Astarion is clever, he often gives out such interesting statements - even write them down, aphoristic, ironic and quite aptly "hits the target", exposing the essence of the phenomenon he is talking about.


Join in, you'd be welcome! Astarion is so Astarion, I love him, to be honest, in any form, and Baldur is such a game that it's just impossible to cover the whole range of possibilities, reactions, lines, etc. in one or even, probably, in two or three passes, it's very interesting when another person can share the experience, new facets of perception open up, like in a kaleidoscope.