Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Help Tips & Tricks The Role of Control Spells?

How do you /do you use control spells often or as a main tactic in your gameplay? There are a lot of very interesting control spells in the game which sound very compelling at first glance.

My experience however is as follows: There are the NPCs to whom you can apply control spells but it is not necessary/worth it, applying damage only is much faster and safer. Then there are the NPCs where control spells would be very important/beneficial, however you cannot apply them because of immunities or very low hit chances.

So I used control spells less and less over time. Except Sleep (no resist possible) in the early game stages I sometimes try Command with Shadowheart, but seldomly. I have bad experience when I try Hold Person on the more dangerous enemies, although NPCs often succeed to take my chars into Hold Person. My trials with the interesting higher level control spells went not well, usually they get resisted when needed the most. My most helpful result was in the end fight in the Act 2 Shar temple where I could change a major villain into a sheep for some time, which granted me survival. But that's a seldom exception.

I never played DnD, is it similar in the tabletop? What are the spells you use the most?

It's not that I *don't* use them, but I find them.... A little underwhelming.

First off is meta-gaming. If I have a Sorcerer and I get to pick spells, I know that 90% of the second act is Undead, so I'm not picking Hold Person and so on.

Then, through items found throughout the game, there is nothing that really that boosts it. The game really wants you to do damage with every build. 'When doing blue damage, add the green debuff, when adding a green debuff add pink damage etc.

Then, I don't like 5E's over-reliance on concentration. I get it when you're holding up a giant wall of fire, say. But....
'Okay, so I haste myself, and now I have another action, so I use telekinesis to... Ah, dangit.'
That doesn't work for me.

Now, to make battles harder for the upper difficulties, Larian scripted the AI to always prioritize your party members that concentrate on things, but at the same time they'll refrain from attacking those that they can't hit properly. If I use my concentration to hold a few enemies, that means all of his mates kill that squishy mage. So, instead, I use my concentration to buff myself with - and then I go in 'Ogre kill everyone around' mode.

So I’m coming at this as somebody whose “battle motto” is, “the best defense is a good offense.” Meaning, gotta smack these guys down before they can get their claws into me. So I do typically prioritize damage over control. However, I often play as a bard or have a bard in my party, so I do have access to my fair share of controls spells.

I honestly think that if the combat was harder, and I had to strain and struggle to kill the enemies more, I would be forced to explore the possibilities of control spells more. As it is, I can just wallop them and they can flail around trying to hit me with my 23 armor class or whatever. But if I was actually terrified of them, and the damage they could do, that would incentivize me to cast control spells more often. So yeah, unfortunately, I feel like the combat is easy enough (in the vast majority of battles) that you don’t have to look at all of your options. I’m just finishing up on balanced mode and then I’m going to do tactician, but in the battles that I have played on tactician, they don’t seem that much harder than balanced mode.

I will say, I have gotten some decent utility out of “hypnotize,” like in cases where you’ve got a big group of enemies, who are all about to take their turn, and you whack them with that and they can’t do anything. Like you said, “polymorph” can also be really nice in a pinch, and “hold monster” can be awesome in boss battles (like in act 3). And “banishment” can also work well if you want to decrease the enemy pool for a turn or two. I’ve used each of those to beneficial effect. I honestly almost never use “hold person,” because the odds of it failing make it not worth it to me I guess?

I think upcast Command is maybe my favorite spell in this entire game hehe.

This doesn't really surprise me though, cause Command was also my favorite spell in BG1. Although the way things worked there it was much more of an interrupt, just cause bg1 was real time and the spell casting time was near instantaneous for that one. In this one though I love that I can cast upcast it and actually Command the enemies in particular ways, even if Halt is clearly going to be my default.

Even in the sections of the game in Act II where we are mostly dealing with Undead, I still got a lot of use out of it at Moonrise. It's kinda wild how reliable it is if you just always cast it vs 2 or more targets. For me it's usually a shot call between Glyph of Warding and a lvl 3 upcast Command Halt.

I was actually a little frustrated that after a couple years in the kitchen, they still never changed Shadowheart's default prepared spells at lvl 1 to include Command and Sanctuary.

Instead they have their new players struggling to deal direct damage casting Guiding Bolt and Harm or whatever. If her prepared spells were Sanctuary and Command I'm sure more players would have an easier time with Nautiloid fight and the stuff on the beach. Particularly since new players probably won't know to try and change stuff in a spellbook, since it's not really tutorialized and you don't engage much with those menus until you hit lvl 2. Just felt a little odd.

Hold Person is less reliable, but again with the upcast can be pretty sav, just turning some fights completely upside down into a Crit fest for the martials on the team. I think the Arcane CC spells are somewhat less impressive than the Divine ones, and need more meta magic type antics to use reliably. Hold Monster has been a workhorse for me in Act III though. Unlike with haste, I never seem to forget that I'm concentrating on keeping somebody held hehe.

I don't know though, cause it's very much a direct damage type layout in many encounters. I probably overvalue CC because I find it so satisfying to execute, and cause my first BG1 character was a Cleric so it feels like home somehow.

My latest version of Astarion was a Thief/Sword Bard with the Band of the Mystic Scoundrel, which allows you to cast Enchantment and Illusion spells as a bonus Action after a weapon attack. His Spell DC was high enough to reliably hit enemies and because he himself rarely got hit by anything, he didn't come to too much harm and his concentration held well enough. Though I have to admit that Dissonant Whispers still was my favourite thing to cast because it combines fear and damage without the need to concentrate.

My biggest regret about Act 3 gameplay is, that there aren't that many fights in which you can really flex all those nice spells you have gathered over the course of the game. So, many spells simply go unused because Act 2 has a rather niche menagerie of opponents.

Control spells are good throughout the game. Later in the game, your casters can have spell DC => ~20. Enemies will need something like Legendary Resistances to effectively resist.

A good case is Trickery Cleric Shadowheart.
As long as you don't resec, Shadowheart is able to effectively "command" some of the toughest enemies in the game.
Examples:
. Act 0 Zhalk (big boss at the start of the game)
. Act 2 Biggest Boss
. Act 3 All (but one) Steel Watchers
At the climax of Shadowheart's quest line, if she is NOT respec'ed, she can effectively disarm/disable the huge army she may have to fight. She can also summon an ally who has an extremely potent (small radius, though) control spell.

I love Shadowheart.

Control spells become much more viable if you obtain the band of the mystic scoundrel. Casting them now cost you a bonus action, not an action. That's only worth it on spellcasters who make use of their weapon attacks, like the Sorcadin and some warlocks and bards.

Hold person/monster is my favourite for the guaranteed crit. I don't use command very much, damage usually ends the fight quicker.

Control spells become much more viable if you obtain the band of the mystic scoundrel. Casting them now cost you a bonus action, not an action. That's only worth it on spellcasters who make use of their weapon attacks, like the Sorcadin and some warlocks and bards.

Hold person/monster is my favourite for the guaranteed crit. I don't use command very much, damage usually ends the fight quicker.

I also love Shadowheart, in several ways. But why should she disable/disarm people? Why not nuke the wet crowd with her giant aoe spells she has as Thunder Cleric? It's over much faster and more reliably, mostly.

Yesterday was typical. In my current Honour mode run I commanded one of the Orpheus prism guard Gith (I really hate Monks), I thought he might climb down from his elevation. Despite a mere 40% chance the Command hit but nothing happened except the Gith lost his turn, otherwise he did not obey. Ok, loss of a turn is not bad, but he was still there the next turn with the same amount of hp. I only choose Command because of the pesky Monk ability to deny half-damage spells, which counters Shadowheart's best spells, but a Guiding Bolt would have been better.

Depends very much on the equipment. There are items that grant the arcane acuity bonus (+1 to dc). One item works if you deal damage with fire spells, and I like to use that one for Wyll as warlock / either bard or sorcerer. You can stack this bonus very easily by upcasting scorching rays, getting a high dc quickly in battle. And since Wyll gets command from being a fiend warlock, he is effectively better at this than Shadowheart, unless you respec her to light cleric.

As a swords bard Wyll can also effectively use the other items, but I am a bit lazy and the

This is just a showcase of "control" spells.

If you turn Shadowheart into a follower of the thunder god in order to eventually have her deal out a guaranteed minimum amount of 80x2 = 160 damage either on the party's 1st turn or by her own 2nd turn, what's left for you to enjoy most of those well crafted battles in Act 3?

On a side note, the more burst damage (from abilities not from items like barrels) you do, the more frequent long rests you have to take, which breaks immersion. Every rest is a break. Also, killing a large group in Act 3 with burst damage (again not from items) most likely requires level 11-12.

On the other hand, throughout Act 1 to 3, once you have disabled/disarmed a few key opponents, you are almost guaranteed a victory with no sweat. You wouldn't have to take a rest (break!) before & after every fight. You would be able to explore many places without a single break. This would feel nice and natural (in terms of roleplay), or not?

I'm currently in Act 3 on my second playthrough (the first I stopped a long time ago at lvl 10 because I was annoyed too much by some game design), being lvl 12, and I have to say that I never felt the urge to use control spells as well as top level aoe spells that frequently. I usually try to solve problems with cantrips, crossbows or concentration spells which you can use for several rounds. Using control spells often would need more spell slots then using aoe if you applied them generously to many NPCs. On the most important NPCs they often don't work. Or do they?

There were some difficult fights, the owlbear (I had to run away because the two damn siblings turned on me), the Gith patrol (a fight before I realized that initiative is all, they killed two and reduced 90% and 50% health of the other two before I could even roll the dice), Bernhard (I underestimated his aoe), the Gith captain (not the inquisitor) in the creche (very bad luck with the dice), and above all, Grym (first time to play it in Honour mode was a bad idea), and then when all the soldiers and some steel watchers became hostile in the Kontor because I forgot that reading the mind can make people mad. Maybe a control spell would helped me in some of the fights, but can you control Grym for example? I was too panicked and busy to try.

Currently I try to solve the Ethel problem in Act 3 once and for all; I was badly prepared for the encounter, only tactical retreat helped me (I didn't know anything about the fight before start). I will try to control her maybe as an alternative approach next time, before she creates another million of copies. If it helps, I will praise control spells forever.

Putting her friends into hold person definitely helped me in this one - along with having a very hearty breakfast. I haven't tried HM yet though.

One could argue that it's a bigger break of immersion if your party dies and you have to start again. Really, I think most players are going to be more concerned with winning the combat, because if they lose then they just have to start over. And doing damage is just more obviously reliable for that. In BG3 I find control spells feel like way more of a gamble when I have damage options handy. I tend to use them more in Solasta, but the tweaks in this game have it so that when I'm calculating what's the best way to not lose, reliably doing damage seems like the better option. I would imagine that people look at the calulation as less "if I go all out now I will have to rest" and more "I can go all out now because I can rest after." They want to win, and they approach in the way circmustances allow them to most reliably do that.

You can use Hold Person on Ethel or her copies? I thought she does not count as humanoid. I'll try it out.

Using control spells against the mean Mystic Carrion at least proved not very successful. Hold Monster does not work because of undead. Sheeping or banning failed three times in a row (despite disadvantage etc.). After that I used Quickened - Create Rain - Chain Lightning to finally end the affair (as pure Sorceress; with a 10 Sorcerer/2 Cleric who has no lvl 6 spells an upcasted lvl 6 Witch Bolt with max damage ability would have dealt even a lot more damage, but only to the mummy itself).

Oh, no, I meant the humans she has enthralled with "friends". I didn't want to kill them but they were the ones who made the fight difficult for me. Ethel and her copies were content to mostly cast Ray of Sickness (I think) which was more of a nuisance than anything because the group had had a nice Hero's Feast before. She also seemed mostly interested in harming poor Wyll, who's a Warlock/Paladin in my game and he was also concentrating on something, so she left Astarion who had all her minions in HP in peace and Gale detected the hidden copies with Volo's eye or just aoe-d the ones that succeeded in staying hidden (you still see were they are after all). It went surprisingly well.

Interesting info. I don't have Volo's Eye (what's that?) or Hero's Feast available, I wanted to use a Detect Invisible spell and poison resistance potions for the second trial. But how did you get 4 persons into Hold Person by one char? What class/subclass is Astarion, Arcane Trickster? I already killed the poor "masks", maybe I could have knocked them out and revived later, now that I think about it?

True, now that you mention it, there is four of them and I can only hold three. Shart probably held the fourth, I completely forgot what she did during the fight apart from freeing the girl and being pretty. My Astarion is a Thief/Sword Bard with high Charisma and the Dex gloves, a bit of a Baldurian army knife because both his spells and weapon attacks are reliable enough.

Volo's Eye is a great reward for doing something incredibly stupid, it's gives one character permanent Detect Invisibility. I tried knocking the "masks" out in my previous run but accidentally killed the Captain while doing so and wanted to treat them with greater care this time around. Though apart from the Captain, they all seemed to be very far gone once freed, so I am not even sure if I did them a favour.

I looked after Volo's eye and it is related to what I thought. My main is very fond of her look, no way to let the guy do eye surgery on her.

You can get control spells to 100% by stacking the spell dc, at which point they are not that much of a gamble. I find damage spells to be sometimes less reliable, e.g. a glyph spells failed to trigger, because it was placed on a slope and the enemy was standing within the glyph, but slightly higher.