Absolutely right, just the way he is! True, I saw different sides to him, I wondered sometimes what he was like, whether he was as you describe him here, or whether he was a "wounded charming elf", that he was just embittered (and, hell, who in his place wouldn't be embittered?). Then I decided that all of this actually fit together nicely, Astarion's personality is multifaceted, he can't just be crammed into the narrow confines of an alignment.
Yes, his personality is very multifaceted. He is very emotional and charming (that’s why we all like him), but also narcissistic and cruel and it cannot be blamed all on a trauma, how Ametris also figured out. Most people who get hurt by others do not feel a pleasure in hurting other innocent people or humiliate them afterwards. But Astarion e.g. approves and enjoys torturing both humans and animals. And that’s correct, the siblings don’t seem to like him either, wether they call him „weak“ or being „alwas selfish“. He is indeed most time very self-centered. (Even in the tender act 2 hug-scene, it depends on the options, but he is always talking about himself. When you ask him, why he slept with you, he says things like, „I needed protection“, and „seducing you was easy, frankly“, „you were a complication I didn’t see coming“ – really mean words, in my opinion, for my innocent good Tav, yet Astarion didn’t even say a word of „sorry“ to Tav. Imagine someone would tell you, he just slept with you out of purpose, to get a benefit from it, and there is not one word of regret. Astarion is still here self-centered. I really missed an option to tell Astarion: „Oh wow, wait! What you just said - hurt ME!“)
Originally Posted by Marielle
I can't imagine what it's like to "hate Astarion". Surprised at first - yes, maybe even a bit shocked, but temporarily, it just took time to analyze and understand everything. He showed me his "tender side" in the second act, and I wanted things to be the same at first, but I certainly wouldn't want him to "become like Will" or like anyone else, to be regretful and sad. I adore Astarion's sarcasm, playfulness, narcissism, I just admire him when he expresses himself like that ...
Yes I can understand this. It is hard to see (in both pathes) that Astarion changes and is not the very same like before. For me, none of the route is perfect. In the Ascension he acts a bit creepy first. We just need to decide, which one is better for our own taste. In the good route I feel his sadness and regrets all the time and it hurts to see him not only being a poor guy, but also losing all his playful and sarcastic character traits, which I liked on him since act 1. He is so funny being sarcastic. And about Ascension, I think Ametris had good words for it, how it feels, when he ascends: „The revenge on Cazador was immensely satisfying for both Astarion and me as well“ - I agree!
Originally Posted by Marielle
Well, it depends on the character of the person... It was just a real challenge for me, I hate submitting, maybe I'm too vulnerable and resentful myself. Another feeling of "injustice", I always respected Astarion, did everything for him that was possible to do within the story, and supplemented through gameplay (rings that allow you to take his damage, statue, better items, gold at least twice as much as Tav, collection of rare gems, etc.) I was always ready to fight anyone who dares to insult him. And it all creates a sense of deep injustice when you get into this scene with the first time. But when I did it willingly, consciously, with an understanding of what it was for and why it was necessary, it made me wiser, taught me to look deeper than my own selfishness had previously allowed me and to understand and feel Astarion better. So I too can say, "Thank you, Larian!" for forcing me to work on myself and realize a lot of things. After all, there is no personal growth without overcoming oneself.
Thank you very much for describing me your feelings about it. It’s very interesting to see another perspective! Ametris had a good explaining answer on it and tells us, why Astarion could demand this. I had the feeling from act 1, that he is into such things and I was hoping and waiting for such a scene. This game has so many different romance scenes for different types of tastes. And this is, in my eyes, also a scene for people with some special taste. As Ametris said, Astarion has a domination kink (In the goblin camp he likes Tav to be tortured by Abdirak and to be humiliated with kissing the goblin‘s feet). So, I myself, always saw Astarion as a dominant romance Partner. „On your knees“ and the insight check „He will always see you as degrading yourself if you continue to be with him. But perhaps you WISH to DEGRADE YOURSELF. And he KNOWS it.“ Gave me chills (in a positive way). People with special interests will not question his behaviour or the insight check. For us, there is nothing odd about it. It is really interesting how many interpretations of this insight check exists. I am lucky to just say: The storyteller is right!
Ametris, what else can I say? You said all the good stuff, I could agree on everything. My English is not good enough for a great conversation! I just want to add…
Originally Posted by Ametris
that although he shares some similarities with Cazador, he is not like him and with Tav by his side he will be more balanced.
Yes, I think so too. Equating Astarion with Cazador (<-- I often read this in different comments) doesn't do him justice. Not only is it the meanest thing someone could say about Astarion, because Cazador tormented and tortured him for 200 years, but also Cazador is lacking complex emotions (like sadness or empathy) as if he were some kind of a non-charming psychopath-dictator. I will not say any reallife names! Astarion, whether he ascends or not, is (still) having them. He can feel sadness and some kind of empathy with others (he never was that good in feeling Empathy with others). In the main plot, both Astarions almost behave the same. Compared to how he behaved and approved in act 1/2 – where he had already evil traits - he doesn’t become worse, mostly prouder. I must say, I really expected and hoped him to become a bit more evil toward others, but „unfortunately“ or not, he is still very soft for being a Vampire Lord - hahaha. Well it’s okay. I love Astarion and Tav being in their Vampire-marriage-spawn-consort-slave-whatever relationship, they are deeply bond forever.
And just a word to Anska:
Originally Posted by Anska
He now embodies the rules of vampiric existence without regret and finalised his plan from act 1 to make sure Tav never turns from him (...) If the collar fits, it doesn't shave.
You have some good arguments. I could agree in that, he wanted power and he got the power. It’s a great dark fantasy ending for at least some people. It’s very funny, my Tav is wearing the collar since act 1. Yes, it fits perfectly.
Last edited by Zayir; 11/01/2409:05 PM.
"I would, thank God, watch the universe perish without shedding a tear."
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