I also had the feeling Vellioth was proud of him. Not with Cazador though. He looked genuinely horrified and shocked that he got outplayed by Astarion.
Yeah, Cazador got too cocky in the end and forgot his precious third rule himself. All that planning gone to waste just because you rushed it in the end, that must sting. One of the few things I really enjoyed in Astarion's Origin was almost going through with the ritual. I wanted to drag it out as long as possible and see if anything would stop me (my trusty wizard and his none judgemental commentary did) but it was immensely satisfying to carve those lines into Cazador's back and see the horror grow on his face ... and then cut him into pieces.
Originally Posted by Ametris
With domination I agree, though the example in the game given in Cazador's case doesn't hold water when it comes to Astarion, because he has no problems letting Tav see their friends. The second rule is not something he enjoys and wants, he complains about having been alone and no one caring about him. He also sounds sad in the epilogue when he mentions being lonely and missing friend Tav, as well as Tav who broke up with him. The rule also states 'to share with others is to be weak' and he does share everything with Tav (the palace and the power, they make decisions together).
The epilogue also implies that he uses Tav to spy on other people, their "friends" included, which is just another tool of domination. I also don't think that the second rule means "don't give out presents" but "don't share your bank account with anyone" - literally and metaphorically - he is lavishing presents on Tav, Tav is allowed to say what she wants. That doesn't mean Tav has equal rights, but that Tav is granted permission.
I have seen a lot of comments say that Ascended Astarion treats Tav like a precious belonging or a pet. While I get were the notion comes from, I wonder if I completely agree. For me he has a certain vision of the image he wants to create of himself, both for himself and for others, one that is more hedonistic than the one Cazador maintained. So being strick and crudely cruel, wouldn't fit that image. Astarion's strategy seems to be to gather blackmail material about his "friends" so he can use them when needed and to keep Tav placated by giving them presents and the illusion of having a say. They really haven't, they are his spawn, even though he prefers to call it consort because that sounds more regal. He seems to have a vision of the perfect relationship in which Tav is given a part to play and he goes through some length to ensure that vision holds. If Tav thinks all of this is very romantic, it works well, if they don't, it probably doesn't.
It oddly reminds me of Wyll's attempt to woe you in act2. If you think dancing is cute and all, it works but if he ... say, approaches the wizard with no dex or performance skills, the whole thing is just very funny. (Why Wyll, why? What made you think this was a good idea?)
Originally Posted by Ametris
I don't believe him when he says he doesn't remember it. He dismisses it as ancient history and says years of torment made him forget, which sounds like an excuse. It's in his interest to present himself in such a way that Tav would feel compassion for him and to do that he'd omit some naughty stuff about himself. If I recall correctly, Dalyria remembered her mortal life very well and wrote about it in her journal.
In the beginning perhaps, by the time the graveyard roles around all the relevant uncomfortable stuff is out in the open already. Besides, I think he mostly means his sense of identity. I can't remember who I was when I was 10 or 6. I can believe that his memory of who he was two hundred years ago is murky at best or doesn't feel like him anymore.
Originally Posted by Ametris
That sucks! I guess all the resources went into tailoring Karlach's origin to his romance.
It party sucks and partly I am glad? In the specific case I mentioned, it does suck but overall I think the tailoring that was done for Karlach feels very ... trite? It's like fawning over Karlach because she is so special, I wouldn't want that for Gale. I think that Astarion at least needs to feel like he is in control in some way and the overall bossy dialogue he has with Origin-Gale reflects that. It's like they trust each other and so Gale doesn't mind being ordered around or teased a bit. I wouldn't want to loose that aspect of the dialogue.
Originally Posted by Ametris
I concur that it's a great dark ending. There are hints that he'd planned things for Tav early in the game and he'd do whatever it takes to not lose them. Even if Tav rebels, he's still smothering them with love, because he has this fantasy life idea in his head, which is appropriate for a vampire romance. Frankly, his romance is never particularly healthy, doesn't matter which path, and he even admits himself that these relationships are not his strong point. But it's certainly succulent!
