Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

I think that the people interviewed probably just were not deeply involved in those characters or emotionally attached to those characters. Probably if you talk to the individual writers, who got deep into those characters, you would’ve gotten a more compassionate response. That’s the problem with hearing from the people who are at the top, but not necessarily involved in the gritty details.

I'd honestly welcome any of larians writing staff that was involved with karlachs story to give me any kind of answer as to why they made the most likable companion have a grimdark ending. I've been lo9king high and low and the only reason I've seen so far from a fan no less isn't good enough. As far as I've seen larian just wanted to bait fans into liking karlach and tease a fix in baldurs gate. Then Completely ignore every single gondian, enriched infernal iron, house of hope, or any of the other plot holes that exist around her act 3 story. They then proceeded to say ok ignore all of the reasons in universe and in game that karlach could be saved and pick whether karlach dies alone on the dock burning alive, or gets to give up her soul, personality, being, everything to save people who couldn't be fucked to help her. They baited us all into loving karlach then said nope she's not getting saved now pick how she dies. Its cheap writing from a 14 year old in some bad dnd homebrew where you kill a loved npc for shock value.

It does seem that way.

Yea i also doubt the interviewed people were much involved with the character writing and probably just said something random on the spot lmao. Still gives off a weird vibe from larian, claiming that her having a miserable ending was envisioned from the start. Opting to say ''well i guess people found it sad so we added a more hopeful tone with the epilogue'' instead of engaging with the actual critizism that her questline faced in the first place, like the plotholes and illogical explanations on why the engine cant be fixed, is pretty disappointing.

You can still create good drama in dnd, just look at astarion or shadowhearts story arc. But if you write a tragic, miserable story where a character is destined to die, ''karlachs heart is a bit wonky and cant be fixed'' is not really gonna work in a dnd world where death isnt as final and much more avoidable than in other settings. This, plus acknowledging the plotholes and the game poorly communicating why exactly karlachs engine is unfixable, is what i wish larian addressed and gave more input on, instead of minimizing the raised criticisms to the notion people hated her ending cos it was ''sad'.

I agree but it also puts you In a position where the rest of the companions look like incrediblely heartless people. Just as an example gale even as a God won't help karlach unless she's praying to him as if he couldn't as mystra for a favor. Gale had elminster on speed dial and elminster as a hugely powerful mage has access to wish as a spell. Yet gale doesn't even offer to entertain the idea, we even see wish in the game if you piss of vlaakith enough. So gale comes off as a heartless bastard who can't be bothered to so much as try to help karlach.

God-Gale literally is not allowed to otherwise. It's basically the tragedy they build up for him in Origin, he still cares about his friends but he only has one channel left to interact with them - and most of them aren't interest in what he's selling. I don't think, human Gale was in any kind of favour asking position at the time. He does offer to make her a flying axe though, when she says she wants one. I think it's a bit sad we can't really craft one because the exchange is cute. ^^

But considering Karlach is pretty heartless in regards to him, the whole gang is heartless towards Astarion on the docks, the whole can of worms that is Halsin and the brothel ... there are some weird writing choices that make the characters seem crueler than they are supposed to be.

Generally the: "We could have asked X for a miracle suggestions", doesn't sound like a very compelling story to me. The thing that would have made sense to me is all the tiered metals and the lead to talk to the Gondians, that just looked very gamey in the same way that her earlier quest was. It's build up like a lead, especially when you learn more about the factory.

Fair point i forgot gale needed a prerequisite as a God, and I was never a fan of gale from the jump he jump came off as narcissistic. It was really weird that no one said shit about astarion on the dock though I forgot about that one. Also never really used halsin at all I didn't know until last month you could cure the blight in act 2 and that's just because he walked out when I went to act 3.
All that being said I don't see it as bad writing if you're going to introduce gods, devils and wish spells it comes with the territory.
Like wyl makes a deal with literal devils and gets off pretty easy with some clever negotiating. That's something that I could see being a real rock in a hard place kind of situation. Like the demon magic of mizora can't just be undone the contract is binding.
Karlach you're right is a prototype steel watch and all of act 3 is a big build up to that foundry and the gondians who make them. Once you get all the way there go through the whole factory and save all the gondians you get nothing for karlach. I don't think you can even ask one of the gondians about her engine and if they can fix or upgrade it. It's not like adding the other 2 upgrades was some big surgery she just shoved that shit into her heart. But yea you're right it sucks they dropped the ball so hard and refuse to admit theyre dead fucking wrong.

They aren't wrong, as it's their story. But it can and should be criticized.

Hopefully they don't do a Bioware, and publicly shout their "artistic integrity" defense.

Yea I really hope they don't start shitting on the community for not being able to see their brilliance. That being said if this was a linear game I'd agree with you about their story and their narrative being theirs alone. But bg3 is player decision based and is guided by the decisions of individual players. The idea being that each player can sort of create their own story within the simple idea of "ok you got a tadpole in your head and this weird artifact. What you gonna do about it?". That's all ripped away when karlachs story is railroaded from the start.

Exactly!! That’s why i had to stop playing the game when I got the dialogue from her saying that she could feel her engine dying T_T

I 100% agree. The game is all about player choice! So yeah, sure, Karlach’s “spontaneous combustion on a random dock” ending might be a brilliantly written tragedy, and some people might appreciate that, but I don’t, because I don’t like stories with tragic endings. Also, because this is a game with such a heavy emphasis on player agency and thinking outside the box, I feel responsible for Karlach’s inevitable death or inevitable retraumatization, depending on whether she stays or goes back to Avernus. I don’t want to feel responsible for that! This is supposed to be escapist entertainment!! Idk what the head writers were intending, but when I play Baldur’s Gate 3, I want to feel happy, not heartbroken and emotionally wounded!!

Well, Gale has some pretty ruthless commentary himself, like when you give up Shadowheart to the temple, he says something along the lines "our loss is our gain".
I'd like to take him on an evil spin sometime, if only the evil route wasn't so lackluster.

It makes the whole party, the gondians and alot more look heartless towards karlach.
Basically saying that sucks to be her huh?
It's awful

He doesn't cry over spilled milk - even when he's about to blow himself up, he's very undramatic about it. His "patched up and pushing on" seems very apt. I like that his Origin allows me to play the full bleeding heart for his friends and poor souls in need but be completely ruthless to our enemies, like a good lance board player. ^^ The Shart thing always felt a little odd though. Like something written for a very specific set of circumstances but then used in general.

What I meant is, that some writing choices feel weird. Karlach's attitude towards soul coins, for example, and a couple of her comments, along with game's annoying tendency to shove her into your face because you are supposed to really, really care for her, made my perception of her shift into that of a naive, but incredibly self-centered little girl. While I am sure that is not the intent.

I didn't know gale was that Cole hearted I hadn't seen that voice line. It makes sense though given his track record

I'd not call it that, it is a very evil choice, after all. Rather, my impression of Gale is that his moral compass is flexible when it comes to gaining power. In this case, Sharran support and favor.

By the same token, if I'm asked about something my employee had created - I'd defend the Employee, too. That's just good manners.

Sure, they had to tell, that they like the game, there is no cut off content and the game looks exactly as they wanted. Especially in interviews before the game was released on all platforms and even released earlier than expected. That's unfortunately understandable.

But the logic in Karlachs quest is just wrong. You should look for the fix, but you don't/ cannot, because it is not in the game and then she dies without any help. I have no idea, if they are all blind in Larian.

That's why I wrote that it seems specific used for general. It makes sense for a Gale who is anti-Mystra and pro Ascension, especially since in Act 2 he seems very interested in Sharran shadow magic but Mystra's orders keep him from trying it - unless the player pushes him. It makes less sense for a Gale who is on the road to redemption with his goddess and wants to be freed from the orb (with the implication of becoming a Chosen again in some dialogue) for the same reason, Shar alignment seems like shooting himself in the foot in that setting. He was previously always a bit nervous around Sharran things when having a pro-Mystra attitude in Act 1 & 2, this seems to be missing from the "our loss our gain" comment too, which is odd.

Otherwise yes, I mean his comment for Astarion not ascending is along the lines of that it was better for his soul, but the power would have been nice.

Astarion used to have some lines for ascendant and spawn mixed up, maybe it's the same for Gale.