Originally Posted by Anska
I like that Spawn Astarion gets comfortable with the darkness inside and around him, while also finding some joy in inspiring people for a change. It's a bit like Ascended Astarion is a spot of darkness in the sun, while Spawn Astarion is a bit of light in the darkness - Gale even calls him a "ray of metaphorical sunshine amidst the darkness" which I might have quoted before but it's just adorable so there .... XD I hope that maybe Astarion's romanced dialogue also gets expanded. It feels like there is a part missing - and you again have to make a choice between hugging him and other good interactions ... really.

Him accepting the darkness inside him is exactly what I mentioned earlier - integrating the shadow self. He does it in both paths, though completely differently. He reinvents himself in the process and finds his own thing to do. When he's with Tav we don't see that, since he just tags along with them and it actually looks like it's better for him to be single when he remains a spawn. It doesn't matter how much someone else loves you, if you don't feel good with yourself then you will not heal. That special someone only becomes your buffer, but once they're gone you'll relapse. They also travel together, living the same adventurer's lifestyle, but don't really get to experience the true test of a relationship, which is settling down and seeing how you fare with the mundane and responsibilities together. And as he says in the epilogue that sounds boring to him.

As a side note, him becoming a hero feels strange and unrealistic to me. Too soon, too extreme. Also seems like he's trying to become another Wyll.

Originally Posted by Anska
When he talks with Ulma after killing the spawn, it sounds like he made that big, hard choice that was ultimately the right one - but it rings a bit shallow because he passed judgement over others that by rights should have also included him and the other six spawn. (You can't tell me that Petras won't do stupid things in the near future - and Leon and Dal will probably be at each other's throats very soon too.) And it's the one that makes no sense to me.

The caged spawn had a different life than him and his siblings. He believes they're far too gone to salvage anything there, so it makes sense he'd want to spare his siblings only, as dumb as they may be. He also has a connection with them, unlike with the others. Maybe it's his way to repay them for being a crappy brother before the tadpole business.

Originally Posted by Anska
Did Cazador have to open all cells, each time he threw a new person into one of them? That does not sound like a very clever locking mechanism for a prison system.

It seems like the staff was granting the power to control things and people, whichever way he wanted. He could use it separately for caged spawn, the main spawn and Astarion. Astarion was also able to take it from him and use it however he pleased.

Originally Posted by vx_phoenix_vx
If you yearn for Astarion to get past his fears in a healthy way, having him go through the ritual is not the way to do it (in my opinion).
All it does is reinforce his preconceived notions that the only thing he needs to work through to emotionally "cure" his fears of Cazador and life itself is to feed him more power; the very "cure" Cazador was seeking.

Maybe he will cure some of his fears, but he will cripple himself in the process. When he has so many physical restrictions it will affect his mind and wellbeing. It's horrible to lose something you loved having. Regret is more painful than failure. Frankly I don't buy the notion that purposefully making yourself weaker makes you safer. He's living in a world with magic, demons, monsters, monster hunters, etc. If you're not strong you'll likely end up as prey. This ending is just too idealistic, naively romantic and sugary for me. What if they travel around, end up attacked, the night is almost over and the only place nearby where they can hide is someone's house and they don't want to invite him inside? He's toast. He will always have to fear the sun, running water, monster hunters, other vampires, that Tav might leave him one day, etc. He'll struggle forever and it sounds wretched to me. This outcome would have worked much better if he wasn't a vampire.

In the spawn path they are just as codependent, if not more. Astarion gives up his dreams and needs for Tav, abandoning himself, deep down he'll always hold Tav accountable for that choice. It might sour what they have. Love alone is not enough to keep a relationship going, you need to have your own goals, passions, achievements, and so on. He has nothing going on, besides being with Tav.
As for Tav - they have to accomodate their whole lifestyle around Astarion's disabilities - sleep during the day, which is unhealthy and exhausting after a while, travel avoiding rivers, always have to worry about what time it is, find food sources for Astarion, because constantly being his blood bag is also not sound, etc.

AA actually realises that power is not everything some time after the ritual. He says it's a lonely life, and he misses having someone next to him. When Tav is his vampiric spouse, he admits they complete him, and that all that power would have been nothing without them. He also matures emotionally in that path, and he doesn't have to deal with any drawbacks like his spawn self does.
Even right after the final battle he has no problem with you not listening to his suggestion and forsaking world domination.

He has everything but considers Tav his greatest treasure, while Spawn Astarion has nothing but Tav.

Originally Posted by vx_phoenix_vx
But life isn't worth living if there's nothing to fear.

I disagree. Fear is actually the biggest blocker in life that prohibits us from having a much better life than we could have.

Originally Posted by vx_phoenix_vx
I can't be the only one who finds the thought of you sitting naked on his lap while he rules the world on a throne of bones and blood just sickeningly satisfying.

Shame he only says that to evil Durge. He looks amazing on a throne!

[img]https://i.redd.it/astarion-ascended...3ddc776371d1b6d2ab5f9949ba37a9738ebfb3a9[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-FfApAakAASUE0?format=jpg&name=4096x4096[/img]

Originally Posted by vx_phoenix_vx
My experience overall is that the Spawn ending is for the romantics. (...) The Ascension ending is for passionate people.

Aptly put!

Originally Posted by vx_phoenix_vx
Overall, I don't believe Ascension gives him more freedom; he's as much a slave to Cazador's power than ever being that he becomes like him in so many ways. But why should that be a bad thing? wink

Nah, he fully enjoys his power and admits he's finally living a life that's worth living. Astarion was always jealous of him, but after ascending he has even more than Cazador ever had. When you don't ascend Astarion he says that Cazador will always be a part of him. Meanwhile, AA treats him like a relic from the past. He's not even physically linked to him anymore, because his body is changed and the blood composition is different. His scar is also no longer a reminder of his torture, but of the gift he received and what allowed him to keep Tav by his side. He doesn't burn down the palace, but refurbishes and repurposes it for his own needs, and makes new, positive memories with Tav in there. Cazador copied everything from Vellioth, while Astarion erases the existence of his former master.