Originally Posted by Ametris
Him accepting the darkness inside him is exactly what I mentioned earlier - integrating the shadow self. He does it in both paths, though completely differently. He reinvents himself in the process and finds his own thing to do. When he's with Tav we don't see that, since he just tags along with them and it actually looks like it's better for him to be single when he remains a spawn. It doesn't matter how much someone else loves you, if you don't feel good with yourself then you will not heal. That special someone only becomes your buffer, but once they're gone you'll relapse. They also travel together, living the same adventurer's lifestyle, but don't really get to experience the true test of a relationship, which is settling down and seeing how you fare with the mundane and responsibilities together. And as he says in the epilogue that sounds boring to him.

As a side note, him becoming a hero feels strange and unrealistic to me. Too soon, too extreme. Also seems like he's trying to become another Wyll.

In the unromanced ending? No, I didn't get that impression at all. He just started to understand basic Pen & Paper morality: If it's a "bad guy" you may stab it and even get a reward for the deed.

It's a bit unfortunate that Astarion got a pretty short romanced epilogue, so we'll never know. Fortunately I have two versions of it and most of the adventuring-type epilogues seem to be synced to some extend. In his Origin Astarion also rediscovers the darkness for himself, though it is never detailed what that means exactly. Gale's adventuring type dialogue says that their living arrangements took some getting used to (that's Adventuring-Spawnstarion specific) but "ray of sunshine". He's glad for a chance to see the world through Astarion's (Tav's) eyes and to have left his more settled life behind, they dealt with at least one serious injury during their adventures, have both interests outside of each other's company and apparently plunder a lot of things. While this is specific to one potential partner, a similar life should be possible with any Tav. That you can only test a relationship with a proper, settled lifestyle also sounds very narrow minded and does not account for many of the challenges of a settled life also being present simply by sharing a life with someone, maybe especially when you cannot really escape each other's company in certain moments.

Back to companion Astarion. I think the "find a way to walk the sun again" option is most fitting for the moment, since it seems the most pressing issue at the time of the conversation. That doesn't mean this decision has to determine the rest of their lives. At some point it can stop being a priority - and maybe settling down doesn't sound so dull anymore, once he had a chance to see more of the world.

Originally Posted by Ametris
The caged spawn had a different life than him and his siblings. He believes they're far too gone to salvage anything there, (...)

That sounds like an excuse he made up to console himself - and most likely to support the player in their decision, so they don't feel bad.

Originally Posted by Ametris
In the spawn path they are just as codependent, if not more. Astarion gives up his dreams and needs for Tav, abandoning himself, deep down he'll always hold Tav accountable for that choice. It might sour what they have. Love alone is not enough to keep a relationship going, you need to have your own goals, passions, achievements, and so on. He has nothing going on, besides being with Tav.
As for Tav - they have to accomodate their whole lifestyle around Astarion's disabilities - sleep during the day, which is unhealthy and exhausting after a while, travel avoiding rivers, always have to worry about what time it is, find food sources for Astarion, because constantly being his blood bag is also not sound, etc.

That is such an insane exaggeration. I feel the only ones who turn Spawnstarion into a squishy, codependent princess are the ones who don't like the ending and *want* Spawnstarion to be weak. (This whole infighting is ridiculous.) Sunlight isn't a problem, direct sunlight is. Petras is fine before Astarion shoves him into the window, on the dock only the skin exposed to the sun is burning up. Sex on the beach under the smouldering midday sun might be out of the question but a nice north-facing room with big windows should be fine, even a cloudy day should be fine, an umbrella or a cloak with good coverage should do the trick. The same with running water, burns like acid, but when don't you search a bridge to cross a river? Rivers in general can be dangerous in and of themselves. Human Tav is vulnerable while they sleep, elves don't have that problem. Days are generally longer than the amount of sleep one needs (nights can be too), so completely shifting the sleep cycle is also an exaggeration. I'll take Gale's word for it, living with an undead "takes some getting used to" but that's it. In this particular setting I think that Astarion not being able to taste Gale's cooking or that Gale loves art and poetry, while Astarion hates both due to Cazador are much bigger hurdles to overcome. But at least they are both into fibre crafts now ...

Yes, some people furnish their whole lives around their allergies, other just find a way to deal with them and live on. Astarion strikes me very much as the latter type.

It's also ridiculous to imply that just because they (as a couple whoever the romance partner is) will forever have nobody but each other. Maybe at the end of the story but not even that is necessarily true - in endings with Gale, Shart and Wyll you can instantly end up with a family and possibly a social circle.

Originally Posted by Ametris
Originally Posted by vx_phoenix_vx
But life isn't worth living if there's nothing to fear.

I disagree. Fear is actually the biggest blocker in life that prohibits us from having a much better life than we could have.

Both of this is very black and white thinking, life in utter fear is horrible but life without freedom isn't good either. Things need to be balanced, but still there are always things to fear. How you deal with your fear makes the difference. Do you horde weapons and meet every possible precaution so you are powerful enough to face down every possible threat? I'd call this a fearful mindset and that is what I see in AA and vampires in general. Or do you keep a level of general safety and are confident enough in yourself, your ability to deal with stuff, and your social network that you don't need to horde all that power? I mean, yes, Astarion had to run from the docks, but it didn't kill him. He got himself out of the situation and eventually also gets himself out of the mindset that his problems make him something lesser. That is fear conquered, it is no longer a blocker for him.

Originally Posted by Ametris
Originally Posted by vx_phoenix_vx
My experience overall is that the Spawn ending is for the romantics. (...) The Ascension ending is for passionate people.

Aptly put!

Aren't romantics the passionate people? It's romantics after all who scour graveyards for corpses to create a new creature from their remains.

Originally Posted by Marielle
Oh, really? smile Your Gale is very serious and logical, he is simply impervious to even the most charming manipulations smile smile

And to be honest, I had a sincere reaction to it all in the first pass at all smile "Oh no, Astarion is upset... Sweetheart, do you really believe me? Of course I want only the best for you!" - any of these lines would do smile

He is very logical, he is INT-based after all. He is also both a "fool for love" and a cat-dad - all things in balance. (And I think he appreciates it, if his love interest can double as fun science experiment. Totally the type to end up with a monster boyfriend/girlfriend.) I generally love the conversation, it has so many fun branches. The one when you admit you are scared of him is cute too. ^^

Last edited by Anska; 16/01/24 11:56 AM.