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Realization of Astarion's Dark Past as a Magistrate in future patches or Definitive Edition.

'Baldur's Gate 3' Tries to Capture the Chaos of D&D Gone Horribly Wrong February 28, 2020
Presentation Baldur's Gate 3 demo by Swen Vincke

„A disgraced nobleman who used his position as a local magistrate to serve a vampire clan by feeding them prisoners, he was eventually too corrupt even for them and was effectively sent to serve as the personal slave of a powerful vampire.”

Astarion, In the artbook that was released in time for Early Access:
„Dangerous and Decadent. Two hundred years ago, Astarion was a corrupt elite of Baldur's Gate with a taste for power and a hunger for eternal life”.

The first lines of the artbook, are a signal to me that this was the key idea of the character.
I have one piece of information, but the game almost is silent. It is known, however, that Astarion is still was Magistrate.
It's quite difficult exploring a character's philosophical global idea without a clear narrative line.

Astarion's story deserves a deep, morally complex and dark quest, with influences of play style and the romance.
I have a few suggestions, of varying degrees of level of ambition.

- Sheets, letters.
Add Astarion's past as lists, letters in Cazdor's castle or vault. Without or with dialog with Astarion after the find.

- Dialogue. I'll copy it from here
If the dialog is added. I envision it as a complex, highly interconnected dialog by key-moments player actions throughout the game, chosen path of evil or good and romantic moments. Class and race responses. As well as the ability to read and hear Astarion's thoughts, checks and the narrator's voice.

- Details
Speaking of playstyle I will use the terms alignment.

Astarion has no reason to care about his dark past if the player is dark too. This system works in the conversation about controlling the cult in front of the Moon Towers.
That the playstyle is evil\neutral-evil, or true neutral.
If the player tells Nere to "kill the slaves" or "no action", for example, there are several key moments throughout the story that will signal Astarion how to act and shape his attitude towards the dialog and the player.
There's a subtle point with neutrality, neutral alignment doesn't take sides, chaotic-neutral doesn't either (but is more subject to own caprice). And for Astarion, that's going to be I think the hardest part, understanding a player like that, as opposed to hero and villain.
Also for example the general attitude towards such things and people - the cynicism, the cruelty of a player who might have remembered Astarion. Overall, I would have liked more conversations with Astarion about power and the world.

- Romance influence on the dialog
Astarion will benefit greatly from this dialog by having a romance with the player.
As in the case of the wholestory there will be key-romantic-moments. Not just good\care ones, but sacrificial and strange ones.
One of the first is the player letting Astarion drink his blood\ or let kill player and not being too mad at him in the morning. That is moments when the player did something just for him risky things, questionable, supported not-good words Astarion. That is, Astarion would understand that he's the player's weak spot, he's being forgiven everything, so his behavior would be different. Or the player is quite individual and Astarion's influence is obviously less.
Also the impact of "breaking up" when the relationship was before.

After the ritual.

Spawn.
This will be an opportunity to show the thorns and dark side of Astarion Spawn. If for example the player has done some pretty evil things and doesn't care about the past, or evily-evil says Astarion was doing an interesting venture. Someone wants keeps playing Boney and Clyde without the ritual. Also a good player, could still condemn it even before going to a painful breakup.

Lord Astarion.
DnD5 true-vampire rules work on an ascended vampire? In the interview said it's still Astarion. So I think, we can only evaluate actions.
For Lord, it's a chance to show his gentle\fun side.
If the player was a good\neutral and said something nice\neutral or even supportive about Astarion past. That is, the player has stepped to the dark side.
Or, player has neutral and is simply Lord Astarion's own moral compass. But not in the sense of breaking up.
Just a little directing and structuring that chaotic fire, in Lawfull Evil so to speak, when there's a romantic relationship it's all the more interesting to watch. I like the tropes of Unholy Matrimony and Even Evil Has Loved Ones, which there just aren't many of these days. Astarion gets chill in the epilogue, so it's interesting to see the start of getting chill.
Lord Astarion will have a lot of branches - spawn Tav, after the ritual right away maybe, after the breakup, after agreeing to be "partners-in-crime", even mortal Tav in the end maybe.

- A separate quest. However, this would require either the Upper City or new heroes and locations, perhaps.

It's no secret that Cazador Castle screams "Cut Content", Larian mentioned in an interview that a romance with Jeheira was planned, but it wasn't realized. A lot of things Larian's team didn't have time to realize.

There is an option in the game to betray Astarion to the fishes, but in the case of Cazador, the player becomes a triple agent and returns to Astarion's side by fighting Cazador. If additional content is added, perhaps Cazador could become an ally and this would expand on the vampire quest in Baldur's Gate and possibly reveal some details of the past.

The difficulty in understanding Astarion as a character is that he is a trickster and a charlatan. He can lie to the player to get whatever he wants. It takes a miracle for us to be sure of what he's saying.

I was thinking of including the hag sisters in the game, that have letters in the first act, where they would show the worst sides of the character\evil and nasty in a companion to poke fun at the feelings of the lovers\friends. It'll also help bring out a different side of Wyll. Astarion's gonna have a lot on his plate.

Last edited by LiryFire; 23/01/24 06:34 PM.
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Speaking of Astarion’s evilness.
The good side and redemption arc depends a lot on Tav - it definitely develops before the player's eyes.
However, I'm interested in exploring the evil side of things in general and the evil and dark side of Astarion.
I get the impression that his dark side leads the way throughout the game, especially if play the path of evil. There is a culmination, the Ascension. But there's no deepening, no clear exploration of its dark complex side that people saw at EA and still in release. Therefore, the endings look abrupt, and the subtlety can be noticed by people who play EA and\or deeply understand the inner evil of Astarion.
The interview says it's still Astarion. I still wouldn't mind some clarity in the game. About the rules of True Vampirism and how they work with Ascension.
In any case, I take it as the Vulcano of his dark desires and dark will has awakened. I can only assume that this dark will was in his mortal past. I'd like to explore the dormant volcano before the ritual in Act 3, it would clarify many, many things in his approvals and reactions.

On one hand I know that Larian didn't want to make Astarion too evil, on the other hand I know that Astarion changed the least. In different interviews.
I know a lot of different kinds of rumors that the moral issue of Astarion's past didn't have time to be realized as well as the Upper City due to lack of time, but the key idea remained. I think it's only fair to bring clarity to those who bought EA and the artbook.

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Totally supportive!

The story of Astarion's past before Cazador is practically hidden from us now, I remember how, before I reached chapter 3, I dreamed that when I was in Baldur, I could at least dig into some archives and learn more about Astarion.

Originally Posted by LiryFire
Astarion, In the artbook that was released in time for Early Access:
„Dangerous and Decadent. Two hundred years ago, Astarion was a corrupt elite of Baldur's Gate with a taste for power and a hunger for eternal life”.

If this idea is revealed in more detail in the game, it will explain the reason for the tragedy that happened to Astarion (his capture by Cazador), bring an additional emotional note to his story (the desire for eternal life is fulfilled in such a twisted and horrible way) and perfectly complement the finale of Astarion's Ascension (after going through hell and many obstacles, Astarion fulfills his dream, getting everything he wished for in the past and even more). It would certainly make Astarion's storyline more cohesive, rich, and logically complete. Astarion's story has both strong drama and a great culmination, but it's a little lacking in backstory.

Originally Posted by LiryFire
I get the impression that his dark side leads the way throughout the game, especially if play the path of evil. There is a culmination, the Ascension. But there's no deepening, no clear exploration of its dark complex side that people saw at EA and still in release. Therefore, the endings look abrupt, and the subtlety can be noticed by people who play EA and\or deeply understand the inner evil of Astarion.

At this point, in order to gain a deeper understanding of Astarion, you need to gather more information about him (for those players who haven't had a chance to play EA) just playing the game wasn't enough for me personally.

I loved your ideas and of course, if even a fraction of what you suggested was implemented in the game, it would be a great gift for me as a player.


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Weird that a relatively young elf would be hung up on everlasting life. I'm not saying such a thing isn't possible, just that I'd hope the elf's natural longevity would be taken into account when considering whatever caused him to be worried about how much time he had left.

I think we really need to get back to making the races different and highlighting those differences.

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That struck me as well when I found out!
Elves have been around for 800 freaking years.
I have various reasoning, thoughts (ocean) that Astarion was obsessed with beauty. His beauty and eternal youth, for elves do age, slower, but yeah.
It's his narcissism line, and probably hedonism, Astarion mentions it a couple times, gold cups, silk sheets, he likes luxury. Eternal youth allows to enjoy everything longer.
The irony is that the mirror doesn't work. This also explains his emotional reaction as Lord and that he has the mirror with him in the epilogue. He loves preening.

Last edited by LiryFire; 24/01/24 05:33 PM.
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I'm supporting this too! smile

When I played the game I couldn't help but feel that something in Astarion's story was missing. He is cagey when questioned about his past, and it looks like he wants to hide information from Tav. I'd like to see that corrupt past explored. Every companion's past is well known in the game, but only Astarion's is an enigma. We only know of his life when he was Cazador's slave and don't get the full picture. If his sketchy background came out it would add some extra flavour and depth to his character and additional good angst to his romance.

The leaks said that Cazador was supposed to be a potential ally at the end. I hope the cut content of the Upper City is restored, and we can see some additional complexity in Astarion's quest.

How interesting and intense would it be if Cazador laughed at Tav during their meeting and told them about Astarion's transgressions? Made them doubt their allegiance, their love or friendship, feel mistrust, anger and resentment towards Astarion? Maybe Tav wouldn't want to help him anymore, felt betrayed, saw him as a degenerate that got what he deserved? Or maybe decided he'd suffered enough and wouldn't care either way? That's new roleplay possibilities right there. There could also be some foreshadowing with old notes scattered around the palace, new lines added to the spawn who'd question Tav on defending Astarion but leave the big reveal to Cazador.

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So, Astarion is an even bigger piece of shit than presented in game? Colour me surprised ... Faerun will be better of without him.

Last edited by Buba68; 24/01/24 06:22 PM.
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A man who can walk in the path of evil and be ok for a reason. Like the neutral-evil of his character in Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms.
I like it a lot smile Evil Prince. Maybe better, My Tav usually cares little about what's better for Faerun.

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The forum would be better off without trolls.


One life, one love - until the world falls down.

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