Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Loss to ESL from Fighter vs. Ranger

I find ESL calculations confusing, so I'll ask - what is the difference for a Cleric in taking a lvl of half-caster versus zero caster?
A 6th lvl Character, 5 levels of full caster and 1 Fighter, has ESL of 5, that I understand. What if 5 levels of full caster and 1 Ranger? is the 5,5 rounded up or down?
I suspect that this is childishly simple, but I can't wrap my mind around it ...

ESL is always rounded down.

Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard and Druid are full casters and so grant 1 ESL per level in that class.

Ranger and Paladin are 1/2 casters and so grant 1 ESL per 2 levels in their class.

Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster are 1/3 casters and so grant 1 ESL per 3 levels in their class.

Thanks!
So 5 Cleric with 1 Fighter or Ranger is 5 ESL either way.

Sorry, this is probably dumb, but what does ESL mean?

Effective Spellcaster Level, basically the frequency at which a class gains extra spell slots. Some gain new spell slots every level, some every 2nd level and some every 3rd level.

Quite useful if you lets say want to play a Paladin multiclass that can smite 16 times without long resting;

What Crimsonrider said. In short - a 4 Bard/2 Cleric is, naturaly, the mentioned level in those Classes and Character level 6.
As both Bard and Cleric are Full Casters, the Char's ESL is 6, with the appropriate Spell Slots, i.e. 4/3/3, in spite of not knowing any lvl3 Spells (must upcast to use those slots).
Paladins and Rangers are Half Casters, Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters are Third Casters, while Warlocks are Freaks.
Hence a 5 lvls Cleric and 2 lvls Ranger is ESL 6, i.e. 5 + (1/2+1/2).


https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Spells
Near the bottom of the page, see table.

That's CHAR level 12, with ESL 11, from Cleric, Bard, Wizard and 2 lvls of Paladin?

Yup, specifically;

• Cleric 1
• Bard 8
• Paladin 2
• Wizard 1

LOL!
So, one lvl of War Domain for those Extra Action attacks, all Armour and Weapon Proficiencies, Bard of Valour/Swords? for spells and 2 attacks, Paladin for smites and Fighting Style (Defence?), Wizard to regain Spell Slot.

To help clarify; it's my Eilistraee Sword Dancer build inspired by Qilué Veladorn the Dark Sister, Mystra's youngest daughter and Eilistraee's High Priestess because both goddesses were involved in her birth.

As Eilistraee's sword dancer I wanted the build to reflect her being equally deadly with both her sword and her spells;

• War Cleric primarily for roleplay, but also that sweet extra bonus attack and proficiencies
• Sword Bard primarily for roleplay, but also Extra Attacks, flashy instrument spells and 2 feats
• Vengeance Paladin so she is extremely deadly with her [Phalar Aluve] as she channels holy power into it. Fighting style is Great Weapon Fighting to boost [Phalar Aluve] since as a dancer she may only wear dresses or robes.
• And Wizard because of a certain dilemma

Her combat starts with Haste + [Phalar Aluve]'s Shriek + Sanctuary, and then she performs her incredibly deadly dance for the next 10 turns. So overall it is a carefully crafted composition of charming beauty, graceful elegance and deadly skill all in one while fully maintaining the roleplay element of being Eilistraee's Sword Dancer.

That’s incredible, I wish my character concepts were that creative. Beautiful aesthetics, too.

A really great concept indeed. The robe is my second favorite robe in the game, so beautiful.

For my taste a bit too little AC however. If you consider using mods, what about a Transmog mod? My electro-Cleric/Sorceress is usually wearing the Nymph robe (from Basket Full of Equipment SFW mod). I don't think wearing heavy/medium metal armor is ok for a Sorceress, so I use light armor and transferred the look of the Nymph robe to it. I get 14 AC and, very important for Honour mode, +1 Initiative while still looking good.

Thumbs up! My Sword Dancer attempts are much simpler/primitive - 1 Cleric (to get Eilistraee dialogue options) and the rest Sword Bard. I settled on that after some experiments often involving Fighter or Ranger. I know that lore has Eilistraee running around starkers, but I interpretted that as licencia poetica or showin afterbattle parties. My Dancers use plate - a girl likes to have her tender bits covered, if you catch my drift ...

No need to wear armor


It was very important for me that the build truly captures the soul of Eilistraee's Sword Dancer, which is why with +22 Dexterity (because [Phalar Aluve] is a Finesse Longsword) she has base 25AC in combat, going all the way up to 29AC with Defensive Flourish to ensure she absolutely does not get hit when necessary. So she truly dances around the battlefield dodging incoming attacks.

Her chance to be hit is so small that in Honour Mode;

• (She can do over 120dmg to multi-attack bosses just by dodging)

  
• (Or wipe an entire group mostly by dodging)

Funnily enough that's how my initial concept began because I only ever played physical classes so my first dozen hours of experimentations were 1 Cleric, 3 Bard, 6 Fighter, 2 Rogue, but the roleplay element of the Sword Dancer just wasn't there without her instrumental spells and flair

So after 60 hours of experimenting and conceptualizing the build to truly capture the various lore elements because I wanted her to truly play and feel like a Sword Dancer, this build was born. Built it for both long-term and short-term adventuring, meaning she can go very long without having to long rest because she is powerful enough without spell slots in regular encounters so she can save them for boss encounters.

Really didn't think I'd end up loving it so much, it's super fun swinging her sword and then throwing an Illusion/Enchantment spell as a bonus action.

That is rather impressive. I'm quite envious, but at least my main Alicia looks better and has more fashionable armor. Or not?

I usually never play magic classes in any game, so I decided to play as Sorceress in my "second" (played only to lvl 10 in my first) playthrough, now in Honour mode, to have some variety. A short time ago, after hitting 12, I decided to try some stuff, so I respecced her to a Bard/Paladin, a bit similar to your build, to see the raw power of this allegedly uber solo build. It was a desaster, a mean mummy and it's minions ripped her guts out with relative ease, and she wasn't solo but with Shadowheart, Gale and Karlach. Neither were the mighty smites that mighty nor was the AC of 30 (26 + 4) of great use.

I obviously cannot play such a build. I respecced to an easy-peasy class I can at least understand a little bit (Sorceress). When I see what you achieve and how much fun such a playstyle can possibly be, I start to mull over it again. My main mental problem with the build is the reliance on Phalar Aluve (which Alicia had in the fight but did not use effectively, I did not activate the singing), as I do not really want to base a build/playstyle on one item.

Completely understandable, I definitely do see how being restricted to certain elements of the build could be an issue to someone, to me it is part of the charm that really gets me deeply immersed into roleplaying her

Surprisingly these restrictions breathe a ton of life into the character and help her appear more real as a character by maintaining the roleplay elements of who she is supposed to be, because then she stops being just a build template and instead becomes an actual character one would love to come across out in the world as they explore.

Knowing that she loves to dance by having a unique bond with her singing blade blessed by Eilistraee herself while being restricted only to dresses or robes, really elevates her from my usual characters because for once my character is not being defined by a build, but instead my build is being defined by my character.

So it is quite a lovely feeling overall ^^

I will definitely try out something similar if I start a third playthrough. Currently in my Honour mode run I feel a bit hardpressed, especially because I did not play Act 3 before in normal modes. It's also surely better to play a build from the beginning, to get accustomed to it.

However there is hardly room for playing something other than half elf for me. I just don't like the other faces and fell in love with one of the half elf options. Is there lore for a half elf female to be something like such a lightly armored sword dancer?

Second question, how/wherefrom do the enemies get the damage when they miss you?

The male elf mugs are AWFUL! I cannae play that!

I'm more annoyed by the muscular appearance of males, and the breast hair for half elves. I like it slim, slimmer than the BG3 normal body. In my first playthrough I played indeed a male elf cause I had planned a Barbarian running around half naked with only loincloth. That soon changed to a ranged Fighter with a bit more clothing on, I had better played as half elf, like my EA char on the left.

Yup, any type of elf/half-elf can be Eilistraee's sword dancer. As for the damage it's from Stage Fright, an Illithid ability.

Paired with the singing [Resonance Stone] which makes everyone around her "happier" (vulnerable to Psychic damage), since it is her secondary source of damage and fits the roleplay of her song soothing the enemies around her while dancing. Which is why she's also wearing the [Strange Conduit Ring] and [Braindrain Gloves], along with [The Band of the Mystic Scoundrel] so she can cast Vicious Mockery too while swinging her blade.

• (Resonance Stone)

  
• (Strange Conduit Ring)

  
• (Braindrain Gloves)

  
• (Band Of The Mystic Scoundrel)

  

Wow, thank you very much for the info, that's great. I especially wondered about the passive damage. I don't use Illithid abilities, so that's a problem which would remove one of the most attractive features of the build.

I could not withstand and again made me a similar build as your's yesterday. It would solve several "problems", f.e. apart from that I like the idea of a sworddancer very much, I could wear the fancy Mindflayer outfit from Basket Full of Equipment mod with more credibility than on my Sorceress, and my group would be more balanced, with me as melee it would be easier to use both Gale and Shadowheart in addition to Astarion or Karlach. Three casters is a bit dangerous sometimes.

Yesterday I faced Sarevok first time in the game and the build showed some weaknesses. I could not cast Haste several times because of Counterspell. The one time I succeeded I lost concentration 5 seconds later because I had to run about an electrified surface (we needed a lot of magical damage because the guy was nearly not hittable with physical damage, and my group is specified for lightning, so such surfaces weren't avoidable). I could wear the ring which makes you immune to get shocked, but I like other rings more. Let's see.
I don't like Haste anyway, a totally op spell, I almost never used it. It's better in Honour mode but still bad, with the second cast action it offers. How important is Haste for your build and what are your experiences in difficult combat? I think the concept does not need Haste, so I also could remove Wizard from the classes.

The second problem was the low hit chances. The build (Bard 8, Cleric 1, Wizard 1, Paladin 2) has no abilities to improve hit chances other than first hit the enemy (except undead) with something (unlike a Fighter/Battlemaster f.e.), or do I overlook something? Isn't that a problem against boss or semi-boss enemies (other enemies don't count for me)? I'm of the impression that you soloed such bosses? Does the most damage in such cases come from misses and Stage Fright?

Last question: How do you get to 22 Dexterity? I have 22 Charisma as Sorceress because of one item but I don't know a similar +2 item for Dexterity.