Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion The romance with Astarion pulls you over to the "dark side".

There is such a thing... Astarion makes you "taste" something new. In BG2, too, there was a lot of opportunities for evil roleplay, and I listened to the stories of a person who passed " chaotic-evil " about what he was doing in his game. But personally for me there was no motivation, nothing "tempted" to go through the game in this way, here I need Astarion.


In what case? If Dark Urge kills Scratch?


In my game, he took the Ascension pretty calmly (compared to some of the other companions). Karlach is the most hysterical of all, and Jaheira promises to be a problem for us in the future.


Haha, he's still cute to me The cupcake has grown into a big and stark birthday cake


Hmm, Gale seems like a very cold and rational person here (even a bit cruel). Astarion, on the other hand, makes quite reasonable conclusions about possible betrayal of companions by Tav This also explains to me those moments when he approved of helping or protecting other companions.


Yeah, I tried to act that way in a lot of scenes to do the right thing and not annoy Astarion too much. Choosing lines with tighter/logical wording really helps.


Yeah, I like that, too. He manages to be charming even when he's swearing.


Another proud Astarion and another morning



Well said! I'm afraid I'll have to go through other games lonely Tav


Awesome!

Thanks, that's a great clip of Astarion, I'll keep it. It captures his character perfectly.

Astarion kills the Gur so beautifully already in the camp? That's even cooler.... It wasn't as vivid when I met Gandrel.

When he dies in combat.


When I heard his lines I had the same reaction as he does when Tav suggests to put their enemies to the sword "Just when I thought I couldn't love you any more".


To me as well. Even his veiled threats and possessive lines about being sequestered into a deep chamber, wonderful obedience, not straying too far and him always watching sound funny to me, rather than intimidating. His reaction to you saying you're not scared of him right after ascending him is charming. Tav's face says it all then - they just like playing power games with each other.


You're spoiling me. ^^


He kills him this way only if you meet him without knowing yet that Astarion is a vampire, otherwise you enter normal combat. I'd never want to do that though after having the hilarious back and forth between him and knowing Tav in front of Gandrel.

He almost cries... I didn't know there was such a bitter scene, never having taken Scratch into battle. Astarion smiled as he stroked Skretch, but it seemed to me that he was treating the dog rather neutrally, and in fact Astarion was suffering because of his death more than anyone else.


"On obedience" I take it as a necessity to maintain a "dominant posture" for Astarion. He doesn't want, and isn't going to take full advantage of the spawn's master (and never does, even if Tav is going to betray him and leave). And saying, "I'll never do that" or "I won't control you" somehow just doesn't "fit his style". Oh well, obedience is obedience, all right, my joy, if you like it that way.... I can't swear with Astarion, and so the whole game I do mostly only what he wants (well, except for getting some particularly bloody approvals and cruel actions) - maybe someone will call it "obedience", hell knows About "not going far away" and all that in this style - funny too. You try to tame a vampire, earn his trust, bind him to you tighter, and then he's like "don't go far away" and gives you "possessive remarks". Cute, ha-ha! That's it, you can relax and not conquer anyone, Astarion will bind you himself now.


Yes, adorable reaction (saw it in a video recently)! I first tried to prove to him that he was "still the same Astarion", and then I decided to "catch his wave" and agree ("Embrace it. Together this world will be ours"). This he clearly enjoys


It's a pity, with Astarion after Ascension I haven't been able to find more so far. I can add just a beautiful "evil" and severe Astarion, if it is in the theme



It's pretty hard unless you do it on purpose - Gandrel is pretty far away on the map from the original area, near the hag (though I guess it depends on how you go through the game and how exactly you break down the terrain in your head into "locations to explore"). So we'd also, by that point, already done both "chatting under the stars" and taking a bite, and even Thay's Necromancy had already started exploring. It's funny that I waited for some time for new "assassins from Cazador" to appear, until I realized that you can talk to the dead companions who did not participate in the battle . I noticed that in the battle Gandrel shoots exclusively at Astarion, ignoring all the others, which generally fits well with "Astarion's version" that he was an assassin sent by Cazador.

That's just him being a cat again. When Scratch is alive he's neutral and even condescending at times but when he's dead that's when he shows his true feelings.


True, but somehow I imagine he might want to do it to some extent in the bedroom for some extra spiciness.


I told him he was magnificent (because he looked awesome with the glowing eyes and that aura around him, holding the staff with confidence and having that smirk on his face). Then also to embrace it because the rush of power was intoxicating to my Tav too (wizardly senses kicking in and all).


He's only intimidating when he's genuinely pissed off. His angry reactions are so well done!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/G0Ha2qnOtrU


Actually he bit me when I was exploring the swamp and needed to rest after a heavier battle with the tree creatures, being bloodied and with no spell slots left. It really fit that he felt weak and needed extra nutrition. Then we ran into Gandrel right afterwards and I was laughing at the timing - Astarion must have been happy he chose that night and felt safer and more at ease when seeing him, believing that Tav would defend him. ^^

Wow, that's interesting to imagine Also in combat it would be nice to occasionally intervene if the enemy is controlling, because once in Felogir's Fireworks, Bane's cleric took control of Tav for 10 turns. Tav freed herself for three turns, but during that time she almost left a wet spot for poor Will, giving him critical hit, I had to take him out of the fight to heal him, and then Tav went to finish off an already wounded Karlach. Where does the Lord look when this kind of outrage happens?


Oh, I too chose these exact replicas He was really magnificent, it's just impossible to say anything else!


Oh yeah.... I was just admiring him in this video... It makes me want to say "Always on your side, let's kill them all, my love". He is beautiful in anger and he really messed up my Tav.


I had a similar situation with the bite! A tough fight with a spider, after which Tav was in 1hp and in the bite scene looked seriously beaten up with bruises on her face because of that, the scene looked quite peculiar because of that Back then there were still problems with money and potions, I couldn't afford to waste potions before a vacation for the sake of the beauty of a possible random scene. Yes, you got Astarion to bite beautifully before Gandrell - the story worked out well

I would love it if spawn Tav had a passive ability that when they got below a certain amount of HP, Astarion would summon a wolf or some other creature to defend them.


Haha, in my scene they were both battered and bruised, so it looked less weird.

Yeah, that would be handy! It would also be great if Astarion could summon a wolf so that Tav could pet that wolf


Yes, yes, the first chapter - times of scarcity, everyone is poor and surviving as they can... In the fight with the spider Astarion behaved like the smartest - he shot from the bow, kept a decent distance from the enemy, only regularly ran up to Tav and lifted her up, so that she could drink a potion to recover somehow and restrain the monster again. Shadowheart didn't last long - Astarion didn't have time to lift her up, so he decided to leave her lying there, what could he do... Gale, however, wouldn't be stupid either - he would take positions as far away as possible, hit the spider with magic and use all the scrolls he had with him. And then everyone, stunned, searched the corpses and went for a well-deserved rest and Astarion's appetite was probably whetted from such an ordeal.

Not so keen on these new kiss animations. Just started a new game so I'm a way off from getting to them but 2 of them don't seem like they fit his character from rummaging around on utube. Anyone been able to see them yet?

I think that, It's an AA kiss more for Spawn Fans. Comfort - Spawn Astarion. Devil Stuff - AA (f8) – Comfort. Repeat.
Developers make AA the way most of the target audience wants to see it. Most of the target audience is Spawn Astarion. That's not AA's target audience. That's the conundrum we have here.
"That's right Larian, you made him more terrifying he's the way he should be, abuse and horrible because he's evil now"
Why Astarion has a gentle, cuddly side in the romance when he's an evil vampire asshole from the beginning is a Sphinx mystery.

Well, I repeat that if Tav face was fine, and we had an exploration of such flavors of Astarion - since the Lord is himself, it would be understandable. But it's still cheap.

It's time to send this post on the forum.
Why people love and want toxic, complex and GOOD dark vampire romances psychologically speaking.

***
Not my words. I'm not a psychologist, but she understands that pretty much in the bull's-eye for me and my friends. It's about AA.

1) A lot of people feel extremely worthless and insecure, lonely, like no one really cares for them at all. It's a very deep wound that hurts and it's difficult to overcome even in perfectly loving, healthy and supportive relationship with a good partner, and even with therapy. So fantasy about a vampire, being obsessed with you so much that he is ready to do absolutely anything just to be with you for forever is really comforting. Also, you don't have to think too much about your imperfections, because for him you like a center of his vampire heart. Besides, you sympathise with him - it's like a selfcomfort mirror, i love this monster despite everything, so in a way, i accept myself despite any flaws i see in me.

2) Safety. When the world around you feel like a wilderness, full of monsters, it feels like only the most terrifying loving monster can protect you from it. He is powerful and protective, and i am so precious to him, that he will set the world on fire just so i would be safe.

3) Responsibility. As you may see, this kind of relationship have daddy issues vibes and codependency, and in real life, you can't just fully submit safely to anyone, I don't think i have to explain why it's a dangerous idea to seek this kind of relationships in real life. You have to stay a grown up independent person and seek safety for yourself without expecting someone to come and heal all your wounds. But this is fantasy, so finally you can use this as a comfort fantasy with no fear about being taking advantage of, without shame to be called childish and etc.

4) Independence. Spawn ending is very terrifying for anyone who has issues with feeling safe and independent, because some of us prefer violent power fantasies over "we have each other and that's all that matters", second of all, this ending also has some shady co-dependency undertone to it that can be triggering for some people. I love Spawn Astarion a little bit more more than Asc and yet my heart stayed absolutely broken after running away from the sun scene, and i hate that he is so dependent on Tav. Larian owes me some emotional refund after this.

5) SA trauma: it wasn't even seen as possibility for healing way by writer, but it is for some. Asc Astarion feels like he is the most powerful creature in the world, and he is fully controlling everything that happens between him and Tav, so finally, it's a kind of situation where there is no chance of him being abused again. It's one of the reasons why some people become Doms in BDSM-dynamic relationships: finally, full control of the process and a partner, who trusts then enough to fully submit, trust issues is also big deal in Astarion story of healing. I find idea that that only Subs can enjoy Asc Astarion a little bit naive. Because, well, some news for you: Doms like it too because they understand why he is so eager to be a top

Unrealistic, not the healthiest way? Probably! But this man and this love is not real anyway.

Yes, i think many of us, especially folks who went through therapy and a lot of self-reflecting are already aware that it's basically romanticized version of narcissistic obsession and in real life this is creepy, but it's not real, it's a fantasy. People use BDSM to heal, romance books and all other forms of art to deal with their inner demons and it's absolutely normal.

/Sorry for the wall of text, sorry for grammar, English is not my first language/

***

Larian may not have planned to make a power couple and complex romance where there is possessiveness, protection, wild, caring and love.
Only virtuous-victim-angst Tav and abusive Lord Vampire. Without a drop of care and love, and if there is any, it is abusive and rude.
Larian thinks a romantic with Astarion is to be better and proper, and otherwise it's abusive and awful - he doesn't love or care, and if he does, it's abusive, rude, and that cheap.

Why did that happen?

1. Either someone is writing abuse on purpose.
Considering Tav's face and those rude-ooc from out of nowhere no revealing, since Lord Astarion is still Astarion.
There's no romance in the game with a male companion that makes me comfortable and fun. One that I could analyze as a complex evil story and not be punished for loving the villain.

2. If this is really clumsy fanservice and the romance is written by different people, different teams and totally don't understand what's written above, it's just centered on memes and hot topics.
They could have at least made a normal face and a choice to be gentle\rude since it's not the first point, but respectful fanservice.
Either whoever does some parts of the Astarion romance doesn't understand: for whom such a romance is being made and why.

People I know left after the "evil path - is isolation" interview. Ridiculous - if evil wins it writes history. And quite happy and able to love. Evil is only punished and cardboard in fairy tales, who teach children the virtues

A person who wrote very interesting thoughts, deep and intelligent parsing EA - barely finished playing Act 3 as the stories are simplistic. Astarion-magistrate sold criminals as food for vampires, then started selling them to slave traders as a profit. And he sold the Gur because they are considered "plebeian savages" with this story written the entire 1st act.
And Lord is proof that it was.
View of the story from above, make it a bit difficult to dive inside the game and the narrative line for me. I just see the broken planks of the bridge I have to walk across. The bridge is different than promised at the start of the project. Yet the first half is built on the old design, with Mr. Act 3 at the very end. Which of these is what, and which plank to step on, which one will fall off in the next patch? \eh?\

Now any complexity of the romance is in jeopardy well or ruined already, depending on whether it's option 1 or option 2.
Though considering that those who thought about the Ascended Astarion rather than hating him as an abuser are 30%, it's doomed shut up and live in the Headcanon-land.

Only the miracle of the Fairy Godmother can help, bringing back the love-obsessed, caring into romance with Lord gray in general and the magistrate's slave trader past.

Yeah, me too. I tried them on myself last night, many times, and just couldn't sleep because of the tears. I don't want to spoil the fun for those who enjoyed them. I understand, but it's just too hard for me. So I really want to write about it here.

Anyway, it's hard. I've tried to pull myself together, to grow up, to realize that it's just a love game. I tried it on myself in the game many times, tried to feel it. One variant - when Astarion takes Tav by the face, I liked it - passionate, interesting. And the other two - constant repulsion, I begin to feel that I am something unnecessary, pathetic, intrusive, something that can be loved only in this way - condescendingly, "out of favor". Kneel every time? And then push me away. Once is a game, twice... Sooner or later my Tav would just turn around and go take something forbidden that the guildies peddle and drift off into reverie, just to get some rest. Let him use his master control and play dolls if he wants. With the bite - I like the bite itself, I don't mind the physical pain, but what comes afterward... Tav reaches for it and Astarion pushes it away and it's some semblance of a slap, like I'm some kind of trash. After a while, somehow that's how I start to feel. If the infliction of pain was connected with passion, with desire, with the fact that the partner as if loses control and gives free rein to his dark instincts - that might appeal to me in an "evil romance". But humiliation... I have too much trouble with that. With strangers it's basic and simple, challenge thrown - challenge accepted, but when you're humiliated by someone you love - you're defenseless. You're open and you just accept that pain. I just don't know what to do with myself to go back to Baldur again, or if I even need to now. I'm tired like I've been plowed through, yeah normal people don't see games that way, but Astarion wasn't just fun and pastime for me, it just happened to be.

This romance was for me this romance was very deep, warm and brought happiness. I played with Astarion, choosing the most loving lines and there was not a single "cruel" or "mean" phrase from Astarion in my playthrough, he didn't even raise his voice once at me. I was doing just fine. Even at the end Astarion didn't say anything about "shrouding the world in darkness" or whatever, we were going to see the world together, which he was obviously happy about. He said at the party that Tav was much more precious to him than power. Most of all I loved taking care of Astarion, I wanted one thing, that in my world he would never be hurt again. How to care for someone when you're crushed and exhausted... There's no love in what's happening now, in these kisses. Sooner or later, through repeated repetition of what yesterday felt like "I love you more than anything in the world" and "I'll give you everything" will turn into "I don't want to hurt you. Just like I don't want to do you any good. I don't care, I'm dead."

Yes. Now either Baldur is not for me, or Baldur drowning in blood. The main punishment for daring to go against the idea of "goodness" and not allowing Astarion to be made a victim to suffer, burn at the end and experience starvation is the realization that my beloved Astarion is simply not suited to my character. Only another character can make him happy. A destroyed Tav will not make him happy.

All that's left is the same old story, where there was happiness, where there was a terrific ending when Astarion on the dock calls me to drink good wine in Elfsong. When he exclaims: "Freedom! True freedom!" When he transforms into an adorable bat and flies around at a party, playing with daggers, getting beautifully drunk while tossing glasses. Compliments his reflection in the mirror. Tells Tav that Tav is more valuable to him than power. That Tav makes him complete. And is slightly sad that he needs to let his beloved go for at least a little while to hang out with his friends. Stayed in the memory. If I could press the "off" button on certain emotions within myself, things would be easier.

This seems like a slap in the face to those who love Astarion and aren't going to take his Ascension away from him. I feel bad for the old kiss, there was such a loving look on Astarion's face there. Now it's only for those who "fix" him. It doesn't work that way! Never the same person will love someone who "disempowered" him and despise someone who helped him and only wanted the best for him. He likes to dominate, but I think he would vary it and would never torture intentionally, just for fun. It's just that with one Tav he would reveal himself more harshly, and with another he might not want to do that. They make their ideas of "kindness and self-sacrifice" sound like a rapist who puts a knife to his victim's throat and forces them to do as he says.

Yep. i looked at those kisses and almost thought of going the fix him route this playthrough because they are horrible. I rerolled my previous game to test them out. In the end I just decided to never kiss him again after ascension so I don't have to deal with it.
They come out of nowhere and immediately after he goes back to being how he behaved before - they simply don't fit his personality or his actions and dialogue immediately surrounding them.
As far as I can see Larian have messed up Astarions Ascension ending completely with patch 6 and given the alternative is the 'lets live in the dark till Tav dies' ending - I'm even wondering why I bother continue playing.
I did send a ticket about them complaining about how out of character they are but hold no hope that anything will come of it. Someone at Larian wants to make the Ascended route truly evil.

Yes. So that this large part of the audience can rejoice in how right they are. So that for all the arguments about Astarion feeling bad, the sun, the hunger, his true nature, his own decision, it could all be easily leveled with another, "Ah ha ha! Look what a toxic abuser!" The Larians need to make him an abuser, they need to make it so that everyone who won't give up the ritual will shut up once and for all. And don't do any variants of healing from vampirism, it's complicated and a waste of resources. It's easier to punch the Tav who dared to truly love Astarion in the face. Yeah, most will just never ascend him. Another part of the audience will enjoy being dominated. That small part that will never accept Astarion burning and wants to see a real, free Astarion, will quit the game - that's a negligible loss at all, considering all the number of players in BG3. Can be neglected. It's probably better to quit than to break yourself to this new version of "romance", I've tried, better not to, it's clearly not a "healthy" approach to yourself.


Yeah, I too felt like Astarion could accept the Tavs as real too, just as they are. It was the best love story ever - total acceptance in return for total acceptance. Except I never thought of him as a monster, because I loved everything about him, all his features, everything I looked at.


And I want to give him that security in the first place. My Tav would set the world on fire to keep Astarion safe. I guess that kind of love deserves punishment from the world and Tav is suggested to start with herself.


I hadn't seen anything scary before, rather the opposite. "We have each other, and that's all that matters." I loved that Tav could prove her love to Astarion, that he could be himself, relax and trust Tav. Tav, who never wants to leave, who wants to always be there for him, the option of becoming Astarion's spawn isn't scary in any way, it's even gratifying because it's an opportunity to prove to someone who "trusts no one" that it's okay to trust. And Astarion will never betray or abandon Tav, the bond is mutual, and he won't want that either. I can't separate the "two Astarions" and say who I love more because it's the same person. With strength and capabilities or vulnerabilities and weaknesses, he just changes his behavior to fit the circumstances. Next to Spawn Astarion is emotionally hard on an empathic level, I start to suffer for him and it's too painful love mixed with deep guilt, hatred for the world and feelings of helplessness. Next to Ascended, it was easy, free and fun. Early on. From his playfulness, his haughtiness, his aristocratism, and his returned sense of self. "The little vampire on the winning side" had turned into "The Ascended Vampire is on your side-you have nothing to fear!"


That one! I, too, always thought that being able to control Tav was a kind of therapy for Astarion.

Thank you for this post!

This!


This 100%! This is exactly how I felt after romancing him. Not even accept, but actually love all the dark parts.


That's the thing! They just keep contradicting themselves. They said Ascended Astarion is the same Astarion, the game spells out in MF Tav ending he does love Tav if you're allied (while in the spawn path he feels friendship I heard), his VA said AA is honest and without masks.

So... if he is only honest as AA does that mean the whole spawn path is a lie? He's saying all the right things a hero Tav would want to hear and only complimenting Tav and leading them on, so they stay with him? Only truly loves them if they give him everything what he wants? Look how he's behaving in the spawn epilogue. He's very theatrical with his body language.

My personal take is that No : He isn't honest with you when you don't ascend him.
Not saying he isn't fond of you or even that he doesn't love you to some extent.
However Tav is the one who stopped him ascending, whether through a guilt trip or whatever other means.
The future he envisaged for himself from the first moment he heard about it in game is one Tav took away.
I've heard Spawn Astarion people say he isn't thinking clearly in the itual chamber and so he makes wrong decisions - but that works both ways, he is just as capable of making incorrect decisions to NOT ascend.
When he has time to really think about it he isn't daft, he'll realise Tav pulled a fast one on him due to putting their own personal morality first.
And now he's stuck, no possibility of the ritual any more, no freedom, no seeing the sun and very vulnerable and has to live eternity in that half way state unless someone kills him.
Of course hes going to be all complimentary, loving. He's got no other choice unless he wanders off on his own but hes going to resent Tav for the rest of their life. I think anyone in those circumstances would.

I won't say the Spawn's way is false - no.

1 - I don't want such harsh rhetoric on any ending. It's a different ending. I'm not gonna lie seductive weapon to aggressive fans who say how I am wrong\delusional because it shows abuse (well now it does, thanks for the animation). Abuse, when one of the people isn't happy, they literally solved it for Tav. It's a nuclear weapon.

2 - I read the script, both endings are equally valid and are character growth.

When both are happy it's a dynamic of a dark novel.
My Tav was happy in the third patch because she needed it, for reasons I wrote above.

One screenwriter is writing a Dark Romance.
The other or a couple of others is writing the story of Abuse and how right\wrong.
These two ideas should not exist together.
Which is Larian Abuse and to evaluate what they will finally do and at what stage they will stop... We're in the violent stage now, folks.
We will only be able to evaluate the story fully when all the patches and updates come out.

How, heavens, could Tav choose an immoral, decadence, libertinage vampire, follow him the path of evil, give him power, give him everything. Making a face like a shot doe. The angst line - which initially seemed just for fun, and wasn't very logical, suddenly dictates the entire romance. I just don't.

Well I guess I'll just never kiss him again, its not as if kissing him is the be all and end all of my playthroughs.
But you are correct LiryFire - they have 2 different stories going on with one character on one path and they seem to be unable to decided fully which way they are going with him.
For me they got the balance wrong on this patch whereas on Patch 5 it was (for me) really a happy playthrough and I loved my Ascended Astarion with all his silly faults as it was still just Astarion, as he had been throughout the entire game with a few added twirls and flourishes.
These new animations however, they are dark, distasteful and unpleasant - not just for his kiss but as you say for Tavs facial expressions afterwards and there are no alternatives as the original patch 5 kiss for Ascended was replaced rather than added to.
They are taking his Ascended path down roads I don't want to travel down but if the kiss is all they do its liveable with, depends on what else they bugger up really.
Did they really believe his fans wanted this?

I'll just repeat what I said earlier:

"The narrator talks about his fear, which we know is his motivator from the start of the game - nothing new there. She also mentions the smell of blood and the promise of power being close as intoxicating to him. These are things he loves, and having them makes him feel good. While he may be a bit fixated on them in that moment, ultimately it doesn't change the fact that this is what he's been going for all along. Even if there was no blood around, he'd still want to ascend. He's plotted and waited for that moment to happen, so of course he's feeling elated when he can finally enact it. To me it just makes him more determined and aggressive in that instance. He can perfectly articulate counterarguments to Tav's objections and suggestions. If you fail a persuasion check he will also say how he doesn't want to live a crappy half-life. He knows exactly what is at stake. He sees the power of the ritual and the freedom it will grant him. He's coherent, rational and pragmatic, therefore he can think clearly."

If he didn't think clearly then he wouldn't know what to say, he'd stumble, be hysterical, say nonsensical things. He even manipulates Tav till the very last moment: "I'll be free. Truly, completely free. Isn't that what you want?" Him suddenly changing his mind looks more like he's confused because of Tav's words after all the buildup. Grasping at the faint promise of hope.

People who think he wasn't himself didn't catch his evil lines throughout the story and/or just want to look at him through rose-tinted glasses.


I don't think he's honest either. All the things I've mentioned earlier point that way.


Yes, he'll always remember it and feel regret deep down.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's ALL smoke and mirrors I just simply don't see it as idyllic and lovely as some people do. He's been a liar and manipulator throughout the whole game, you don't suddenly become a good person by doing one altruistic thing. He won't drop his old habits right away.


The dissonance in narration is clear. As I said before the new patches are making me worried.


Yeah, how dare they. It all feels like Larian is trolling us at this point.


Personally, I don't have any issue with his behaviour, it can be an entirely consensual rough play. My problem is Larian railroading Tav into a certain person - someone who is not ok with it after kneeling and accepting this in the first place. My Tav wouldn't be scared of any of this. If Tav showed pleasure during the kisses it would change the whole tone completely, make it playful and kinky.

I'm sorry you got affected so badly by this patch. I really hope Larian listens to criticism. It would also be nice if they made the rough and gentle variants like they did during the transformation scene.

yes, gale was supposed to be the new karsus, you do hit the point.

this is that why i always reject put my player character soul into the original characters.

the game officral speaker says -- "this will give the game from the origianl characters' views".
but, actually, this isn't.
these are the views from tav, because the original characters never consider some options as their choices.

this causes you will view an original character full with tasteless and contradiction, an original character looses his/her nature.
some options cause that a bad man seems good, or a good man seems bad.
just because the options only can be used by tav.

He has no choice, that's something to keep in mind as well. Astarion needs Tav's eyes, he can't do the ritual on his own. Just putting yourself in his shoes will be enough. There's nothing you can do, no matter how much you want to. Letting "convince yourself" is the only option to preserve your dignity and this relationship (the only close relationship Astarion has had).


I think he still wears the usual "seducer's mask" of saying and doing what is wanted of him. Not as flamboyantly and playfully as before, but that's understandable too. When a man is broken, and even more so when he doesn't want to show it, it's easier for him to "turn on" habitual and practiced patterns of behavior that will work even "on automatic". Astarion's resentment is there, it's felt and seeps out in some things, something resembling passive aggression - when he sort of emphasizes that he didn't care about Tav at first, and says that he can be talked into intimacy during a date in a cemetery (while Ascendant somehow doesn't need to be talked into it). And "Nothing special, of course..."" - A joke, yes, but it's his only line on the subject of relationships. He also shows his distrust in that line in the finale where he says Tav might leave him.


Therefore, these kisses do NOT have Astarion in them. They contain a cheap justification for the dumb line, "You're like Cazador" that a parting Tav might say to Astarion.


I feel it fully. Or to be victimized by the violence of the "plot" that sort of threatens me: "Drop Astarion! Don't ascend Astarion!" To this I will try to answer politely: NEVER. Either accept violence in these scenes. What is being proposed is a roleplay of a man who became a sub for the sake of sending one Minski's favorite word ("good") to another Minski's favorite word ("ass"). This goes a bit against the very idea of roleplaying and any realism of roleplaying. And what about "immersive gaming"? A fan of the game should supposedly be happy to buy souvenirs with their favorite characters, not antidepressants at the drugstore.


That pisses me off even more. What the hell is fear? How can Tav be afraid of Astarion? Even if Tav is hurt by his scorn, it would be exactly that, hurt, bitterness, but not fear. There are lines in the game for playing a cowardly character, there's that possibility, but like maybe you don't have to turn the possibility into an obligation?


Yes, I agree that it's possible to play without kissing. In fact, games in the past have generally given no kissing and it didn't interfere with immersion or headcanon. But what's next?

Part of the fans like it. But there should be two lines. After Ascension and the night with Astarion, there are two options - the "tougher" option (and that toughness is in my opinion much more enjoyable than the pushing away during the kisses - there's just savagery and power there, but no contempt) and my favorite "be gentle" option when Astarion kisses Tav's hand. The same could be done with the kisses. Give the player a choice through a line in the dialog, for example. That would have been really realistic. Unless, of course, they did it for the satisfaction of SA fans.


Exactly. The part of the audience that enjoys this behavior is trolled by Tav's facial expressions, spoiling the view of their own character. Basically, if Tav showed enjoyment, it would make the scenes including, at least a little easier for those who have a hard time with it.


In my walkthrough, Gale didn't want to take the crown himself for some reason. There were no convictions, no influences, just after the line about "Become a god?" he explained why he wasn't going to do it and... that was it. I never took Mystra's side in dialogs with Gale, never tried to convince him to give up anything, he just did it himself. I don't even know what influences that.