Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Restoring the Astarion Scenes from EA

Authors of the post: Zayir, Ametris, LiryFire.

"Dear Larian! We would really like to bring back some good Astarion scenes from Act 1 that were in EA but were subsequently cut.

And in these scenes, Astarion is revealed to us as a splendidly evil character. It's just an incredible story that takes personal reasoning, flight of thought and emotion to a new level.
Astarion is completely wild. I'm dizzy with how beautiful it is. I love it so much.

Astarion about the "little death" (patch 4).

[video:youtube][/video]

Who needs morals when you have good hair?

[video:youtube][/video]

Astarion's comment on Goblin Sazza:

[video:youtube][/video]

The Ilithid used to lure fishermen by influencing their minds. Just look at Astarion

[video:youtube][/video]

Back the beast into a corner and you'll see the teeth.

[video:youtube][/video]

"little death"

[video:youtube][/video]

Party with the goblins

[video:youtube][/video]

Astarion about slaves of myconids

[video:youtube][/video]

Arabella

[video:youtube][/video]
[video:youtube][/video]

Mayrina

[video:youtube][/video]

Healer Nettie

[video:youtube][/video]
[video:youtube][/video]

In the scene with healer Nettie (after the "I swear" line in EA) Astarion gives a disapproval. - Which seemed a bit wrong if he doesn't know if Tav is cheating or not.
Then says "nice, she believed you".
I think either remove the disapproval, and returning Astarion's response, and confirming that you were serious and then there would be that disapproval, or answer option 3 and get the approval.
Also, to make the dialog look better, you could add.
"I swear" as a cheat. Then Astarion could realize that Tav cheated - that could be an instant approval".

Yeah, Larian seems to have tossed a lot of superb content aside for unknown reasons, heck I loved it after you met Edowin and his "siblings, Astarion also had very cheeky things to say. Come release? Nowhere to be seen.

I also remember in EA companions actually commented on ongoing romances and if you happened to romance (have slept with) Astarion, had whole banters about it and I know they still exist, are properly recorded for all companions, including the 'newest post EA' additions like Halsin and yet they do not fire in game at all anymore. Not once. And there are some really cool banters, of romanced spawn Astarion and ascended Astarion...

Heck, I'd love to see that in the game! Right now the companions have no reaction at all to the Astarion romance, just one (!) line from Shadowheart at the party, something like "You and Astarion seem to be cozy together..." and that's it. Nor is there any reaction to Tav becoming Astarion's spawn.

Why don't we get that Nettie conversation?! Sigh.

I will say, I like his current face better than the EA one. He does look older now but I like the manly look.

For me that scene with SH fired only once, out of all playthroughs. Only Karlach seems to notice an ongoing Astarion-mance in my runs. Freaking weird. I believe banging Astarion BEFORE the party causes some of these bugs...

I got the reactions from Karlach, Lae'zel and Shart but also only when not having slept with Astarion before the party and in Lae'zel's case only if I also hadn't talked with her about spending a night together before the party.

Some of those maybe don't fit his personality anymore, but there was no reason to remove the ones about Nettie or Sazza.

I wish his nightmare was back too.

Yeah, I like his face better now too, he's more alive, more realistic. I like Astarion older, his little facial wrinkles make him look more real. The graphics in the game are generally better now, maybe that's why a lot of the scenes from EA were removed, because they'll have to refine them. But I really wish those scenes weren't missing and we could see them in the game.


Astarion himself comes before the party and starts everything fine by himself, what can I do about it, I can't slow him down So, an earlier start of the novel blocks the companions' reactions. I was "surprised" by Lae'zel first, she tried to start a romance even before Astarion and started the dialog herself when I approached her in the camp, she doesn't comment on the romance with Astarion after that either.

Great scenes. In many ways they complement and deepen the character's image.

The "little death" scene after the barn directly references\complements Astarion's phrase at the Tiefling party.
Astarion: Not at all! I was hoping for companionship and - well, maybe a little death. Figuratively speaking.
I also downloaded EA 5 patch and Astarion talking about the thieves he judged in the scene with Arabella, and after the bite in EA still mentions that he "can't remember ~much~, years of torture does that to you", same tone.

Yes, these scenes complement the main plot nicely and help to further explore Astarion's character and understand him better.

Larian seems to have taken care to keep the scenes from EA. They were recycled in the Pad version. Without the cinematography and dialog, which unfortunately resulted in them being cut.
Probably each companion should have had a synimatic and a little dialog - however, it was labor and time consuming.

BG3 6 Patch


Astarion: Raising the dead is easier than capturing slaves. The drow in Menzoberranzan could learn something.
Astarion: They're just husks. I couldn't care less if they're slaves or building material.

Astarion: I didn't take these refugees for killers. Maybe I've misjudged them

However, I think the best decision was to leave whole key character scenes like the mushroom servants.
Without dialog, some lines can't exist. Astarion responds "Maybe if thinking creatures - I'd care, but maybe not" when the player points out his hypocrisy in this, since he was a slave himself.
And the goblin Sazza. Nettie and poison.
These too are important details of personality, his view of the world.

These phrases didn't work at all for me in the game. You'd have to be grouped together to hear it. And wait for the right Pad to trigger. It takes time, too.

I think the solution would be a combination.
Some scenes to make PAD. And to keep the style - do little reaction scenes like this occasionally in the next acts that are important to the characters' personalities, to each their own.
However, since people are already used to each scene in Act 1 leaving them whole would have been better.

I'd call the scene with Arabella pretty important to Astarion as a character - but there's already an about an undisclosed magistrate-history in there.
It was also cut like the others but there may have been a plot reason here.
However, he himself says he was "getting rid of trouble makers". Just the extra emphasis on that in the Arabella hook-scene - which keeps the suspense going, but there's no continuation of that line.
For example, Astarion was once in Menzoberranzan and killed a gnome there for fun.
Astarion barks. If you poke at his portrait during battle.
How, way and when? To do anything in Menzoberranzan, a high elf has to be quite a jerk, as someone who has been playing dnd for a long time told me. And most likely mortal. (I don't think that's a joke, let's put it that way)
Given the tendency to or woobification or b\w, and the information about no DE plans - chances are it won't be revealed at a high level or at all.
Although Astarion tempts for evil, shows what fun chaos it is to be evil. b\w doesn't tempt.

This one, like some of the lines that trigger when you spam the portraits, is a reference and not meant to be taken as canon, necessarily. This is what's being referenced:

"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"
If we take the easter egg lines as canon, then I guess Edgar Allan Poe is also a thing in Faerun.
/Not/ saying this isn't in character for Astarion, because it is, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean that at one point he was in Menzoberranzan and did that, it's just a silly reference. This is directly contradicted by the dialogue he has when you first enter the Underdark and he says he's never been there.

Also, regarding the two first dialogs you screenshotted: These were present and animated in EA, I remember them. I don't think the reason why they got cut was related to the writing changing since it happened for all companions, but I don't know why they did it, and I think it's a shame.

I didn't know that reference. Yeah, that's right.

"Cash recounted how he came up with the line "But I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die": "I sat with my pen in my hand, trying to think up the worst reason a person could have for killing another person, and that's what came to mind.""

It's very much in Astarion's character to do so.

To emphasize his bloodthirstiness, of course, and a reference to this. In this case, it would be very easy to do without mentioning Menzoberranzan.

It would be interesting if he lied to the player about the Underdark, because well, the high elf from the Upper City of Baldur's Gate could have forgotten there. But if the player knows about vampirism, he still says that he has never been to this place. Which could also be a lie, for a legend. However, it would not be necessary to mention this in general.

Alain Poe is not in Faerun, but Menzoberranzan is.
A specific place has been named, although the reference does not require it at all. This is where the reasoning begins.
The Drow are tightly tied to the slave trade. Given early idea - it could have been a reference to Astarion's past. He could have done business with the Drow.
Given that he says "the Drow could have learned", in the scene with the mushroom servants, he could have known this first hand, their method and considered insufficiently effective.

Perhaps the whole Astarion story is a reference on the original story of Astarion.

Oh yes, please, I've only played under patch 5 and 6!

If it's for fear of the lack of balance. I think it would be better to add a counterweight.

That is to say, adding a cinematic if: TAV/DU chooses to save the Tiefeflins + Astarion's approval is high enough then Astarion would more or less justify his immorality by his way of life over the last 200 years. And would propose, as an experiment, to try to see things more nicely.

It would be a good transition between the Astarion of Act 1 and the sometime gentler Astarion of Acts 2 and 3, with a bridge to friendship/romance in hero mode and without denying players in evil mode.

I hate waste!

In the dialogue control of the cult in Act 2. Astarion thinks of such a Tav (help Tiefeflins) as a goody-two-shoes. And naivety. If you keep talking about goodness, he'll say no ambition.

Honestly "seeing nicer things" isn't really for Astarion, and there's no need to justify it at all. Only to explore. Astarion needs balance, certainly, but not defang.
I think he's always had a Machiavellian, cynical mindset before slavery. Because Astarion is a evil character for the evil path. Like Minthara, only male one. By dnd evil is greed, selfishness, doing what I want even if it harms others.

Balance can be made with logic, practicality of the "evil" world picture and romance.
Astarion is nice, softer only in the romance. I think that was the idea - soft on those who really love him and who he really loves. Harsh on everyone else. This is usually the case for an evil character in fantasy romance.

But there are some confusing points.
Approval, for example. I was suggesting that a player's key actions evil or good, would sort of influence approvals and reactions.
Considering Astarion has abrupt (that's the impression we have) a transition and we can't explore his complex evil, and thus can't tie up the strings to his endings. I wrote here that his past and playing with his past would help us understand this point better.

Menzoberranzan has a trading quarter where other races are allowed to make deals. It is recommended to have guards and guides from the locals, pay for protection. Only the really rich or powerful non-drow can afford it, but you can do it. It also benefits the economy of the higher houses of Menzoberranzan, it is encouraged. But going outside the neighborhood is strongly discouraged. That's according to the lore of D&D.

Astarion was wealthy, and could theoretically have thorogh business with the Drow. In Raphael's House of Hope, before the portal to Menzoberranzan, Astarion has a line (unfortunately, I can't find a close save to quote verbatim) that makes it clear that he doesn't want to go to Menzoberranzan. Whether he doesn't want to go to Menzoberranzan because he knows about Drow society and its customs, or he doesn't want to because he has had some, perhaps not the most positive, experiences in the past, remains a mystery.

Another interesting moment with Luskan portal.
Astarion: Luskan was once a beautiful city. Well... it was a den of pirates and vagabonds, but I don't mind.
Events bg3 1492

Luskan before Spellplague (1385 DR–1395 DR) was also a questionable city (as well as any in Faerun). There was also piracy led from the shadows. And after the plague it turned into absolute anarchy. Maybe he heard stories, or maybe he was making a profit there with the pirates, transporting something illegally is for them. But that's a theory.

Don't forget Astarion's age was changed, 350 to 263.
Idle champions of the forgotten realms says Astarion is 263 years old he's an elf, though he looks 39.
SH is 40 years old and she looks younger, and she's a half elf who's aging faster.
There is no way he was a Magistrate at 39 and looked that way for his elven years. The dates on the gravestone (born 1229 DR) aren't correct.

He looks a very nice 39.

But a high elf at 39 should look very young, like 17-18 years old, given the lifespan of elves. Here for 350 (roughly 30-something for a human) it fits. In terms of D&D rules for the elven race, of course, this is wrong.