Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

IIRC the devnotes for when he says that seem to imply he's being sincere when he says that, it said something like "a little bitter, but more a warning than a threat". But whether he truly means it or not is the least of my concerns tbh.

I feel like I'm being too negative so on a positive note I do like that Spawn Astarion's epilogue (if Cazador's dead, that is) seems quite genuinely happy. Props to Neil's acting.

Maybe I'll get a few more of those the next time around. With Gale's Origin I also had an extremely short dock scene - though I absolutely do not miss witnessing Astarion burn up.


Rushed or incomplete. Shart or Gale (everyone really) also feel like they were affected by the different things that happened to them during the past half year. Friendly adventuring Shart is not unhappy but still searching for meaning and really glad if you send "the Cub" her way, while cottagecore Shart is almost saccharine in her cute family life bliss with petting zoo. Romanced Professor Gale is a bit stuffy again, while he is a lot more relaxed in his adventuring ending (and they even make it a plot point) and he got some specific lines for Astarion's Origin too. Astarion is pretty much the same no matter the direction his spawn ending took. (Though his campfire comments vary.) In the Origin too, Gale-Origin has unique lines with almost everyone, he gives Jaheira city building recommendations, has some details about what magical exploits he's been up to with Minsk, Shart and Halsin and some cute banter with Karlach. With Astarion, reclaiming the night is the topic but it gets never explored in detail and - what confuses me - with romance Astarion I can chat with Minsc about searching for a cure, with Origin-Astarion it's not a topic.

About the "bitter and twisted" it felt a bit cringe to me at first but after a bit, I got the impression, that he maybe has something on his mind - returning to the first campsite might bring back memories - but since we can't talk about it ...

I agree with all points, especially this one

Apologies for horny. This pretty edgy topic, please, neat.

Astarion has a romantic side that is revealed in the game, in Act 2, his emotions and feelings. Yet Astarion has a freaky-decadence side to his personalities and sexuality.
I will write what are the prerequisites for this in the game. Here is not a discussion, but my plan is to justify my suggestion.

My suggestion: Uncover the decadence, hedonism and power-control-play in Astarion's sexuality before and after the ritual.
Astarion is a vampire, he enjoys blood. That's a lot of ways for an "Evil" romance too.

EA's artbook has it that Astarion is inspired by "18th century libertines", a prominent representative being Marquis de Sade. I don't think the original inspiration is rewritten.

One thought I had was that Astarion's sexuality is very much tied to control and power plays. He has... Moments of it. Like in everything, general.

The Marquis de Sade was confronted with the institutions of power throughout his life. He was the one who was judged, the one who saw the judgment and the one who ruled it. I won't reason on how right and healthy he was. He had a certain picture of the world.
Morality, religion and law are all nonsense, there are clear roles in the world - the weak and the mighty.
Everything is based on the power of the strong over the weak, but the roles are constantly changing - yesterday you are a powerful monarch, and tomorrow your head is already on the scaffold.
Very much like the picture of Astarion's world: you either eat or you are eaten. Power is a tool to do whatever you want.
The Marquis de Sade transferred those brutal realities, revolutions, executions and corruption to people's sexuality.

In game we have Astarion's approvals and reactions, and Dark Urge-thing, it's definitely interesting to reason about that.
I think that's partly why we have the kneeling scene for Lord. He's gained Master status, now there's nothing stopping him from revealing his sexuality as a Master.
This part of Astarion's sexuality could have been revealed in another scene with this kind of power play in more detail, before the ritual and maybe after for both ways.

Astarion is attracted to Tav outwardly, something he says himself.
I would also like to explore the theme of his hedonism, which Astarion mentions a couple times. But Astarion begins to feel deep emotions because of Tav's care. These emotions, feelings cause dissonance with lustfull sex (which I think Astarion is experiencing), but deep emotions in this is ruined for Astarion because everyone who was interested in intimacy with him died like cattle.
Control and power - I think that's part why he liked Sebastian, besides the fact that he was apparently nice, sweet. Astarion understood and controlled everything very well with him, because of his inexperience - Astarion decided how to kiss when, how much.
There's a scene in the brothel where he refuses, or after the ritual in all cases still can't relax.
Realistic, I'd just like to know the lines along which Astarion actually enjoys so I know what direction to go in next.

In both endings it's clear that there are two romance lines - Romantic and Decadence.
Perhaps they blend together with each other in different parts. I'd like to explore Decadence one more.

I have a feeling the same problem is at play here as with the whole path of evil. It gives too little, yet it should essentially be another path to explore.
In general, Astarion really dislikes being ruled, even when it's well-intentioned - and he likes to be the one who rules.
To rule, to control, is also to protect, to be safe, but it's fun too.

Maybe Astarion can take great pleasure when he gets his hands on all the control over everything, with strict rules dictated by him and quite a bit of brutality. Maybe Lovitar's friend can help us. Such will be the romance for the Path of Evil.

There are some examples at the end.

Lovitar is the clearest example, Astarion is in thrill to the show of power. Of course, there's also blood, but he's interested in the show itself.

Approval for torture-things, it's a show of power strong-weak, predator-prey.

The whole conversation is about how to kill Tav if they start turning into MF. Astarion is engrossed in this conversation.

To Dark Urge.
Astarion: Ssh, or I'll rush off and tell your Father you've been fibbing. Did he spank you growing up, or go straight for the cat-o'-nine?
(maybe this was added for luluz's sake and Astarion is joking, but after some of his approval and dialog, it's not just luluz, I don’t think so)

The brothel has a line of Astarion's original.
Player: Just don't tell me what to do... It brings back bad memories.
(he puts limits right away, which is a bit of a hint + considering other examples)

Goblin Crusher-moment
Astarion approves if the player submits for 5 points.
1 point if the player subdues a goblin.
1 Point if a player steals a ring and inspiration
1 Point if a player kills him.
I wondered. Astarion 1 - Looks at how easy the player is to control, and he likes that, profit. 2 - in all cases: Fun, as he says.

Voice barks for Astarion
Astarion: Maybe they like being restrained?
Astarion: You look good helpless.
Astarion: Oh I shouldn't laugh. - The character is in a Romantic Relationship with him, unconscious or immobilized.

I really enjoyed this theme. No character in all the games I've played has ever before evoked such strong and deep emotions in me as Astarion. Improving and deepening his romantic line are the changes that would please me as a player the most. Dear Larian, if you release a DLC about Astarion, adding more content with him and expanding his romantic line, it would be a dream come true for me (and I think for many other Astarion fans)!

Ametris, you've done a marvelous job of pointing out all the points in Astarion's romance plot that need changing, and your suggestions for improvements would make his story more logical, complete, and even more beautiful! I agree with everything you've said, I can only add a few more of my thoughts on the matter.


I would really like to be able to honestly and openly declare my love for Astarion to those companions who try to flirt with my Tav. A line along the lines of, "You're wonderful, but I've already fallen in love with someone else..." would be appropriate if you had a romantic relationship with any companion, right now the game has no lines for monogamous players at all. Besides, such a response would be more human, sincere and friendly towards the rejected companion as well. I don't want to bring the situation to the point of "choosing between the two", and I have to cut off all their attempts to get close rather abruptly, which from the outside looks like this particular companion is just something bad and unattractive to Tav, which causes well-deserved disapproval on his part. In the first chapter I had to "make up the plot" for myself, imagining that Astarion wants to hide the relationship (by the way, if it was true and there was some dialog with him on this topic, it could also justify the lack of lines), otherwise it's simply impossible to explain to myself the fact why Tav can't tell anyone about it. Incidentally, while in the case of choosing between the two Astarion is happy when they choose him, in the case of Tav being 100% faithful and them trying their best to avoid any situation that could be in any way similar to cheating, Astarion doesn't notice it and doesn't react in any way at all.

Scene with Oblodra. I'd really like to be able to communicate with her more aggressively and, ideally, "teach her manners" and through intimidation make her apologize to Astarion for speaking to him in such a tone. In the game there are enough opportunities to humiliate or intimidate other NPS, and in some places completely undeserved and there is no desire to use such opportunities, and it is here, where one would really like to do it, Tav should be polite. It would be great to explain to her how wrong she was in thinking Astarion was someone's slave, by giving her a 'painful hold' (through a check of strength or athleticism for a warrior), through intimidation, or by offering to 'come out and talk', for example: "Yes, we're all under the shadow of the Absolute here, but if you want to dance on the edge between life and death, I can arrange that for you. Just come out with me in the shadows, one on one..." She could have called security after that, and Tav would have had to justify themselves using their persuasion skills. She could also complain to Zarell, and Tav would have to further explain themselves to Zarell, which would also be interesting. Also, it would have been nice to be able to talk to Astarion about her tainted blood already after this scene was over. In my playthrough I was too outraged by her behavior and didn't even think to ask Astarion why it was that he didn't want to bite her, plus the question makes it sound like Tav is fine with Astarion for the sake of some potion to fulfill the demands of a character who talks to him so insultingly. But after Tav has already supported Astarion, saying something like "You were right to refuse her, although purely from a pragmatic point of view, drinking someone's blood once more..." would be appropriate, and Astarion could then explain the real reason for his refusal. Otherwise, the player who supported Astarion "no questions asked" is completely prevented from getting that information in the game.


Yes, my God, I would love to be able to hug Astarion more often, especially since the animations for that are already there. Right now it can only be done in the confession scene in Act 2, even though the "Open Mind" option seems like a more serious and sincere confession option to me and I choose it in this scene. If one could both open consciousness to Astarion and hug him - it would make the scene really better. And, of course, the plot makes me want to hug Astarion very often - during painful parts of his storyline, and just as a show of affection as an additional romantic interaction.

It would also be great if Tav had the ability to occasionally give out small reactions in response to Astarion's lines and comments, such as laughing at his jokes, nodding and smiling at him.


Oh, and in case Tav isn't going to bring Astarion's pain out into the open and supports him by stating that "Astarion isn't afraid of anyone, it's everyone who's afraid of him" (the dryad then gives the relationship a lower rating), they and Astarion could have had a more candid conversation between the two of them on the subject afterward.

Halsin's harassment. Again there are no appropriate lines for a monogamous player. The only line in which Tav can talk about his relationship with Astarion sounds like something Tav would be okay with despite it. I hate picking a line like that, having to turn him down without explanation and listen to his indignation at "Why did you ask me about love then?" (although I purposely did NOT ask him that so as not to provoke him, that's also a flaw). It would have been much more realistic if the Tavs could have been genuinely surprised by such a suggestion from Halsin, and in response to their surprise, Halsin would have talked about being in a polyamorous relationship. It would be interesting to discuss this topic later with Astarion, explaining their position to Halsin beforehand and refusing him, just to get Astarion's opinion on the matter.


When Tav rejects Halsin right away, Astarion doesn't react or say anything about it, although there could have been dialog in that case too, since Astarion noticed Halsin's feelings. In my game it looked as if Astarion didn't care about all other companions in terms of their possible encroachments on his beloved, he is not interested in it at all. Faithful Tav also deserves additional lines.


Also, it would have been great if Astarion had shown himself to be protective of Tav and responded aggressively to Harleep's "offer", and ideally picked a fight with him himself without waiting for Tav to do so. Astarion repeatedly says, "You belong only to me," and here, when the incubus wants to rape Tav, he just folds his arms across his chest and waits for Tav to refuse to undress herself. Sure, you'd think it'd be like he's just confident in Tav's power and their ability to stand up to Harlip on their own, but he could very well have shown character and just made his lover feel good by aggressively defending them.




Totally agree, that line would have suited the situation very well. Also, it would be great if Tav had the opportunity to just kiss Astarion in front of her - that would be beautiful.


In the conversation after Ascension, of course, I'd really like to add other lines for Tav. Right now, my Tav has to act like she's, shall we say, a somewhat sex-crazed character who's only thinking about getting Astarion into bed, simply because the other lines are completely inappropriate. How wonderful it would be to reply to Astarion when he offers a reward, something along the lines of, "You're free! You feel alive again! You've had your revenge and gotten everything you deserve, and no more larvae we need - all the joys of life are open to you, and they're yours. Can there be a greater reward for me than this?" Or Tav could simply say that they love Astarion and want to be by his side always, to share his new life with him, if of course he wants to do so himself. That would be much prettier, more serious, deeper and would fit the wagering better than the rather primitive in this situation, "I want your body". Just the body? Seriously? Saying that Tav did it for the sake of vampirism or starting to whine and lecture Astarion on "proper relationships" is, I'm sorry, just delusional. As for the kneeling scene, I also wonder why Tav can't react in any way after passing the insight check. Tav already opened their minds to Astarion in Act 2, they can do it, and now is the time to do it. Show Astarion how Tav sees him, how beautiful he really is (not just outwardly), that there's no way Tav can humiliate themselves by staying with him, because he's the best person for Tav in this world. And if it's so necessary to kneel, fine, let's do it, but at least let Astarion know that Tav doesn't "like to humiliate themselves" (especially if the whole game was a roleplay of a strong, proud and confident character who is ready to accept any challenges), that Tav does it only for Astarion and in any other situation, with any other person, Tav would rather die in an unequal battle than to humiliate themselves. It would also be beautiful if there was a chance to see tears in Tav's eyes at that moment. It's a pretty powerful scene on its own, and I realize it's important as a kind of act of trust in Astarion, as an opportunity to "give him everything", but it could have been made stronger and deeper.


Yes, absolutely. He always deserves it. It feels like the image of Tav, who loves and understands Astarion and helps him spread his wings and live life to the fullest, is deliberately forced to be more primitive (as in the dialog after the Ascension).


It's so bad that it might even be good, if it was done intentionally as a kind of irony and a subtly inserted hairpin in the direction of "goodness and self-sacrifice". And other games give players the opportunity to make "evil choices", but in my gaming experience no game before has ever given me enough motivation, only offering, "You can do this", but unable to answer the question, "Why would I want to do that?". Here, however, the game gives not only motivation, but also greatly increases my enjoyment of "evil choice" by watching a video of Astarion's "good ending." "7000 victims for a ritual? - Yeah, no problem!" "Kneeling? - Yes, I'll stand on my head, I'll stand on my ears, what a blessing it will never happen in my game..." But if the writers didn't plan to please the players who chose the "evil way", clearly showing them how right they were to make this choice, but wanted something else, then... Ahem... A lot has already been said about this ending, maybe they will fix it sooner or later.


Yes, that would be great and would add an extra happy and fun note to the finale!

A lot of these suggestions are great. However, instead of adding content to content that is already there (such as existing conversations) it would be better to create conversations for situations that currently don't have any dialogue or very sparse dialogue. For example, the reactions to the dark urge duel need to improve. Act 3 in general feels empty of companion interactions, so adding more dialogue in the empty parts of act 3 and improving reactions to major events like the Dark Urge storyline would improve act 3 immensely.

Yeah, act 3 is really empty. It would be great to add more dialog to it!

Part of it isn't just about romance, but I think it's good to do a MasterList with some suggestions for Astarion.

1. Add more answer options for Astarion (3 act, after ritual)
2. Astarion's Dark Past as a Magistrate
3. Restoring the Astarion Scenes from EA
4. Uncalled for changes made to Astarion's animations and restoration

Maybe it's due to act 3 just missing companion stuff in general... but it would be nice if romances in act 3 could noticeably progress from act 2 in terms of greetings and additional fun dialogue in the "Can we talk about us" section.

I'm not sure about the other companions, but romancing spawn Astarion in act 3, even after killing Cazador, feels just like act 2. I mean he's the same person but it feels like the romance should more noticeably have advanced, since he didn't know what he wanted in act 2, only knew that being close to you is nice, but in act 3 he knows he wants you, but it all feels like act 2 after finishing his storyline.

At least Ascended Astarion gets noticeably different dialogue and greetings after finishing his questline. Yes he's a different person but at least there's changes that actually makes it feel like a romance. Spawn Astarion romance needs some work.

Hot News February 2024 - The Ascended is not a different person, the same person, same Astarion. (which was obvious enough, but still) He hid his evil part under a goofy mask - his VA said, he played him that way. He's showing all his problems. He becomes honest about all his desires, especially his evil desires. That's exactly how I felt. The big Astarion inner evil train is coming.
And that's the problem we can't explore the evil of Astarion before the ritual in Act 3, see it. Only the Ascension reveals it to the player.
It will be helpful to have the mask cracked a bit in Act 3 before the ritual. As another option after to keep track of everything - after the ritual in both path.
Honestly his past will handle this just perfectly. It'd be funny if romance did it too.

Yes, having a player with him in an affair should reveal other things to us. Work the romance in Act 3 before the ritual and for Spawn would be great. Lord Astarion has more lines, but he could use content too. (I personally want to do evil romance with all Astarions)

And then when he doesn't ascend he seems to forget about this side of himself. Or purposefully represses it.


How about a hug from Astarion too?




Yes, that dialogue should be there too. He was clearly bothered by Halsin ogling Tav and he would have noticed a change in his face.


He could give him the Petras treatment.


I found the actual footage of the Spawn vs Ascendant lines from the VA:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QQz2RrOl1Yk
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rzt9WLnN7Ws
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kCJGb06cpbs


Also, since I've seen posts where people were not sure if Ascended Astarion actually loves Tav, the game confirms he does indeed, and he even still has feelings for them if they are a MF.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gaQ4MtBkvpk


Patch 6 is just around the corner too, let's see what it brings!

Looks like Ascended Astarion is getting a new kiss animation in patch 6! I guess it was to be expected that Tav having to kneel wasn't going to be a one time thing.

https://twitter.com/larianstudios/status/1757773594229191141?s=20

Gotta say, I love the kiss in itself, but I'm not a fan of the scared look on Gale's face. I'm keeping further thoughts to myself though until I have seen it in game.

There's no limit to my anxiety.
I've been writing, of course, wanting a evil romance. But now I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't. Does Larian really know how to write elegant, possessive power dynamics with love with an evil man or is it roulette?
Great lines from Lorde after the kiss, terrible dialog options after the ritual, good epilogue, shaking Gale on his knees.
Face of Gale's... (poor dude should have watched Astarion's immoral approvals and tried the evil Duage game)
If Tav has it...
Astarion most likely wants to dominate the relationship, be strong and the one to protect, the leader.
Knees - there was a special moment closed in that scene. It probably would have been repeated. Astarion is wild. But as my post above there is no deep exploration of this side of his tastes - and to unravel this (?) all the time like this to add knees honestly looks cheap.
Knees are a more intimate thing, it doesn't need to be repeated too often. If it's going to be the only option and if it's always available... It could show Astarion's uncertainty, and didn't skill in the Master's dynamic. Did he? From a writing perspective it looks importunate. Hopefully this will be closed in a separate scene.
It's fanservice of course, but it spoils the character a bit.
Well or my Tav who has been doing immoral things for Astarion's approvals all game won't be shaking like a chicken. It's be ok.
The dynamic of the kiss with Karlach is what perfectly shows the power dynamic that Astarion would do often. It could be a touch on the neck, cheek, perhaps a bite during a kiss.

If this kiss is the only one we'll have and even replace the current one it would be over the top. You want to kiss Astarion in public and then have to kneel every single time while the whole street watches? This should be done somewhere more private. Hopefully this version only triggers at camp.
The Karlach kiss is perfect for him and Tav, it would be a waste to only restrict it to a single occurence in one origin. That one is completely in character for Ascendant but not as scandalous and intimate as the kneeling one so it could trigger everywhere else.

Gale's facial expressions are rather silly looking. Astarion's predatory ones on the other hand are fantastic!

Maybe it is wanted that way? Can't let every compainion being the same. Comparing Astarion and gale is like comparing apples and pears. I find Gale rather funny, but if you're into drama and the dark side of the game, you may better stick with Astarion instead of judging other companions.

How can a romance be more evil than Astarion's? If you want evil, if let him acends and become his spawn. I romanced all the male companions at least once each. So i can safely say. Astarion has the best written story already. I think the other companions need the improvement more than him.

Oh. my. God. This kiss animation is incredible hot. I love that. Don't do that to me, if this is true, I am melting. But as hot as this animation is, I hope we can keep the old animation too, because it's a great one, both could trigger randomly and whereever we are - I myself don't mind if this is in public. I'm just afraid they'll take the other animation away from us in the ascended route..



Everything you wrote in this post, I fully support this. Well said!

What? No one is comparing Astarion and Gale. We were discussing the new Astarion kiss Larian showed with Gale as Tav. LiryFire has actually written several detailed posts about exploring the evil side of Ascended Astarion romance specifically.

Even if his story is the best, there are still things in it that should be there for logical and continuity reasons.


It would be a shame if they removed it, I hope it stays too. I wonder if they'll rotate them like his responses to the question about the relationship, or restrict them to locations to have a private and public kiss.

Omg! Ascended Astarion actually got 3 new kisses! And one of them is the Karlach origin kiss! Yes!! And he even has new lines! Everything fits him so well.

I just wish Tav didn't look like a scared chicken and smiled a bit, because they look like it's punishment rather than enjoyment.

I'm still downloading the patch so I'm not sure if the old kiss is gone now. One comment I've seen on YT said Spawn Astarion kept it so it might be exclusive to him now.

Spawn has the old kiss and a new one.