I've heard Spawn Astarion people say he isn't thinking clearly in the itual chamber and so he makes wrong decisions - but that works both ways, he is just as capable of making incorrect decisions to NOT ascend.
He has no choice, that's something to keep in mind as well. Astarion needs Tav's eyes, he can't do the ritual on his own. Just putting yourself in his shoes will be enough. There's nothing you can do, no matter how much you want to. Letting "convince yourself" is the only option to preserve your dignity and this relationship (the only close relationship Astarion has had).
Originally Posted by Bethra
Of course hes going to be all complimentary, loving. He's got no other choice unless he wanders off on his own but hes going to resent Tav for the rest of their life. I think anyone in those circumstances would.
I think he still wears the usual "seducer's mask" of saying and doing what is wanted of him. Not as flamboyantly and playfully as before, but that's understandable too. When a man is broken, and even more so when he doesn't want to show it, it's easier for him to "turn on" habitual and practiced patterns of behavior that will work even "on automatic". Astarion's resentment is there, it's felt and seeps out in some things, something resembling passive aggression - when he sort of emphasizes that he didn't care about Tav at first, and says that he can be talked into intimacy during a date in a cemetery (while Ascendant somehow doesn't need to be talked into it). And "Nothing special, of course..."" - A joke, yes, but it's his only line on the subject of relationships. He also shows his distrust in that line in the finale where he says Tav might leave him.
Originally Posted by LiryFire
One screenwriter is writing a Dark Romance. The other or a couple of others is writing the story of Abuse and how right\wrong. These two ideas should not exist together.
Therefore, these kisses do NOT have Astarion in them. They contain a cheap justification for the dumb line, "You're like Cazador" that a parting Tav might say to Astarion.
Originally Posted by LiryFire
Which is Larian Abuse and to evaluate what they will finally do and at what stage they will stop... We're in the violent stage now, folks. We will only be able to evaluate the story fully when all the patches and updates come out.
I feel it fully. Or to be victimized by the violence of the "plot" that sort of threatens me: "Drop Astarion! Don't ascend Astarion!" To this I will try to answer politely: NEVER. Either accept violence in these scenes. What is being proposed is a roleplay of a man who became a sub for the sake of sending one Minski's favorite word ("good") to another Minski's favorite word ("ass"). This goes a bit against the very idea of roleplaying and any realism of roleplaying. And what about "immersive gaming"? A fan of the game should supposedly be happy to buy souvenirs with their favorite characters, not antidepressants at the drugstore.
Originally Posted by LiryFire
Making a face like a shot doe.
That pisses me off even more. What the hell is fear? How can Tav be afraid of Astarion? Even if Tav is hurt by his scorn, it would be exactly that, hurt, bitterness, but not fear. There are lines in the game for playing a cowardly character, there's that possibility, but like maybe you don't have to turn the possibility into an obligation?
Originally Posted by Bethra
They are taking his Ascended path down roads I don't want to travel down but if the kiss is all they do its liveable with, depends on what else they bugger up really. Did they really believe his fans wanted this?
Yes, I agree that it's possible to play without kissing. In fact, games in the past have generally given no kissing and it didn't interfere with immersion or headcanon. But what's next?
Part of the fans like it. But there should be two lines. After Ascension and the night with Astarion, there are two options - the "tougher" option (and that toughness is in my opinion much more enjoyable than the pushing away during the kisses - there's just savagery and power there, but no contempt) and my favorite "be gentle" option when Astarion kisses Tav's hand. The same could be done with the kisses. Give the player a choice through a line in the dialog, for example. That would have been really realistic. Unless, of course, they did it for the satisfaction of SA fans.
Originally Posted by Ametris
Personally, I don't have any issue with his behaviour, it can be an entirely consensual rough play. My problem is Larian railroading Tav into a certain person - someone who is not ok with it after kneeling and accepting this in the first place. My Tav wouldn't be scared of any of this. If Tav showed pleasure during the kisses it would change the whole tone completely, make it playful and kinky.
Exactly. The part of the audience that enjoys this behavior is trolled by Tav's facial expressions, spoiling the view of their own character. Basically, if Tav showed enjoyment, it would make the scenes including, at least a little easier for those who have a hard time with it.
Originally Posted by stevelin7
yes, gale was supposed to be the new karsus, you do hit the point.
In my walkthrough, Gale didn't want to take the crown himself for some reason. There were no convictions, no influences, just after the line about "Become a god?" he explained why he wasn't going to do it and... that was it. I never took Mystra's side in dialogs with Gale, never tried to convince him to give up anything, he just did it himself. I don't even know what influences that.
