Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

Players who are having buyers remorse can end the romance. It's as easy as that. "I'm dumping you".

If they stay it's because they Want to stay.

What's the moral thing to do? Why on earth would I care about the moral thing to do, that late into a morally grey or evil playthrough? The game lets you do so many immoral things. Just in the last 5 minutes of my game I told a caravan of Absolute cultists that they should go in the shadows and die, thanks for the moonlantern btw. And cultists are poor, brainwashed thugs. When I'm in Moonrise I'll likely tell the goblins to just stop breathing. Still debating on what to do with Isobel, but I want Shadowheart on the Sharran path. Let's not pretend that the game cares about morals, please. And let's not pretend that my Tav will suddenly grow a conscience after she sees that Astarion has become... hotter?

The problem here isn't to determine whether AAstarion is or isn't evil. The point is to let us decide if our Tavs still find him hot. If they don't, they can end the relationship or kill him. If they do, they should look happy about the kisses stuff.

The new facial expression in the epilogue also bothers me. I felt so inspired by these wonderful changes that I came up with this:

Whoever made the animations probably didn't know anything about Astarion or the relationship and just seems to have a thing for abuse. That's the most obvious explanation for me. It was surely not meant as punishment for choosing the route, Astarion got 3 (!) kisses! Why bother if they don't want you to choose the route? Someone not aware of the story just put a dangerous sadistic kink into the animations and thought players would like to see that. That's why it feels so odd and out of character. Someone who would know the Story or the game, could have never put such victim and sexdoll behaviour into Tav.

Again: Portraying a Tav, who is scared, terrified, disgusted, unhappy, rejecting, pissed-off, having just a forced smile, (=not loving the partner) still kissing that man like a sexdoll is NOT, absolutely NOT healthy. This has nothing to do with Astarion's story. This kind should never been shown like this. It contradicts itself! It's neither SM nor a playful thing. It's a fantasy noone, who is healthy and has empathy, should have.

You can show hard SM, but you shouldn't cross the red line. Consensuality. And they definitely did cross it.

Something (maybe with a good intention: "go make some hot dominant kisses for the Vampire Lord") went completely wrong...


Hahaha, that one is great

came on here just to say I'm a bit sad about the lack of additions to spawn romance. I know everyone's concerned about the expressions during the ascended kisses, but really I just wanted spawn to have at least 1 more animation or a bit of new dialogue. I do really like the current animations (though I wouldn't say no to different camera angles.....). as dumb as it is to "complain" about this it was just disappointing to see gale get new animations plus multiple pre-netherbrain kisses and spawn get none of that lol

Tbh no new animations would have been better. Nothing new to an already amazing game? Fine.

Turning my character into an abuse victim? Ew. I certainly won't ask for those kisses anymore unless they change them, seeing them once was already too much. They're sick and triggering and not what I want to see when I play.

Agreed, nothing is keeping you (yet). Does anyone know btw if he has a special reaction in the epilogue to a Tav who became his spawn but dumped him before the Netherbrain?

Yep! But instead now they look as if the only reason they want to stay is because they have lost their will and don't dare to say no. It's really unsettling how someone could choreograph and animate this and think it's okay. I see more and more people trying to justify scared Tav as roleplay or similar (which it obviously is not, it's really well animated in that regard). So if their moral stance was to tell us how bad our choice was, they achieved the opposite - they normalized abuse.


It's really frustrating following this discussion in other places and people saying that this is how it should be, you should feel bad, your character should feel bad. So, you should not even have the option to roleplay a character who is okay with it. This in the same game where you as DUrge have the option to revel in having stabbed a poor, innocent girl to death in a most horrifying manner. I agree with you that it is a bit baffling where they draw the line.

Why would they go to Hell if you just kill them? If you just kill them, they go where-ever they would normally go, which depends on the person. If you sacrifice them for the ritual, you condemn them to torment under Mephistoteles in exchange for power. While you can discuss the morality of what to do with the spawn, there is nothing ambiguous about the ritual itself. It's probably one of the most evil things you can do in the game. Still, if someone condones it, they condone it.

Yes exactly what you're saying here!! I'd rather they didn't put anything new in the game than ruining it by replacing it with such crap!

Let me put forward one theory on the subject of why we have Lord Astarion kissing like this. I would like to point out that this is just a theory, an assumption, I have no actual proof of this, I'm not going to claim that it's definitely true, after all, we're just having a discussion here.

It's been written about in this thread before that it's not healthy SM, and I think I'm not the only one who when playing/viewing these scenes on youtube had a feeling of impropriety of what's going on in them. I was able to talk to a sexologist who deals with sexual deviance, he agreed to watch the kissing video and said that it's not a SM video, it looks like foreplay for "sadistic 3D porn" without a proper sequel. On portals devoted to 3D porn in the category "sadistic 3D porn" there is a certain "section" of videos united by such a theme as " she is controlled" or "her body is controlled". The plot of such videos is that the victim's body is under the control of the rapist, he controls her in the process. For connoisseurs of such videos the victim's facial expressions are important and the quality of the video and the level of the animator, who makes models for the video, is evaluated also by this point. In such a video the dominant may not be directly present, remaining as if behind the scenes of what is happening, the main thing is that the victim's facial expressions convey to the viewer the understanding that the victim does not want to do what they do, that their body is controlled. Like, for example, in Kiss with a Bite - Tav doesn't want to kiss Astarion after the bite, it's pseudo-Astarion playing this way, making his victim's body make different movements, this is also one of the "tricks" of the genre, when the victim seems to "want" the rapist, but a good animator through the victim's facial expressions should let the viewer understand that it's not so, and that she is being controlled. Our Tav's facial expressions and body language in this scene are perfect for this genre. If anyone wants to check this out for themselves (not recommended for sensitive people) I can post the names of these portals in a private message.

It's possible that the Larian didn't intend to "punish" anyone on purpose, that they just wanted more sex content in the game, and that's how they wanted to please the SM audience, because the topic was only touched on in the game, but not explored. That they probably hired some top 3D porn animator to do it. And this person wasn't privy to any dark romance, didn't know anything about Astarion's character or any relationship with Tav, he got a text script of the kisses themselves (bite, kneel, grab his face, make Astarion's face like the poster, etc), a general brief like "Lord Astarion and his spawn that he can control". And he did his job qualitatively in a "she is controlled" kind of way.

Tav's body language, which Zayir analyzed in this thread, also adds up to this version. If someone who specializes in creating sadistic 3D content worked on it, he probably has his usual ways of showing the victim's facial expressions and body language, his usual vision of it, and did it the way he usually does.

If you look at it from the perspective of this version, whatever you have going on there with the deep dark romance, the tenderness and love for Astarion, some meanings and such - kissing Astarion just automatically puts you on a porn site in the role of a victim being controlled.

I don't like videos like this, I experience significant psychological discomfort from watching such content, and I'm writing this solely to defend Astarion. He has a lot of people jumping on him right now, and using these "kisses" as the main argument for "he can't be Ascended". But, what if these scenes were done by an animator who has no idea of Astarion's personality? Then it's just using Astarion's model to create a scene in the "prelude to sadistic 3D porn" genre.

I was also a little disappointed when I saw that only a kiss had been added to spawn Astarion. But still the biggest disappointment was when I saw the kisses with AAstarion.
As much as I think about it, I can't find a valid reason that justifies the expression on TAV's face.
As many of you have already said, there are people who have truly suffered abuse and still appreciate AAstarion and putting certain animations in front of him is reckless.
I've already written two emails, if we find a way to create a petition, I'll be there.
I know it's not easy but I really hope that someone in Larian Studios will listen to us. I'm sure they would do something...
One of the worst things that you can feel is have fear to express yourself because anyone would be listen to you... I hope the wouldn't ignore us.

@Marille Ugh! I hate to say it but that's a very plausible explanation. It also implies this was made primarily with male players running fem. avatars in mind (probably not the main market for Astarion romance!). It would certainly explain why Tav is so passive and, as other posters have pointed out, acting like a sex doll. It would also explain why some people are getting off on this.

Nothing personal and I really do appreciate your insight, but after reading your comment I have a sudden urge to take a shower.

I think it's what happened, yes. Someone who's great at animation that just got an ambiguous brief.

But it's inexcusable that it was uploaded that way in the patch.

This sounds very reasonable and it would make a lot of sense.

I just wonder, how many male players with fem avatars are even into Astarion's romance? If a guy likes that kind of content (no judgement here, and I think that animation should be there to make stuff happen that wouldn't be ok in real life) isn't it easier to just watch a porn? How many people, who are into that kind of stuff, have the interest in doing the whole romance beforehand? When nothing in the romance ever indicates that it'd go in that direction?

They're basically triggering ALL the real people who chose that kind of play, to please someone who... will look at the vids on youtube. Because they're not playing 80 hours to reach that specific scene.

Indeed if the animators were thinking it's for a male audience they really need to do some research on the audience BG3 has gathered as most "Astarion Fans are female in real life" especially if you look into the streaming community it's the slightly goth ,cosplay orientated and modding crew primarily female wearing their elf ears and had a thing for vampires seeing this twisted relationship all of a sudden after banging in hundreds of hours to even get near act 3 It doesn't work the animation is jarring.
That is no where like our playthrough was meant to turn if we chose this, its mainly evil players that want the evil Astarion but why are we scared of him if we played the ascension card we knew what we were letting ourselves in for and it wasn't to be scared of him.
We're the ones asking for the kisses in dialogue
End of the day Tav was the main character not Astarion . (rough kisses i'm fine with its the face animations of the recipient that bothers me)

No judgement but it does seem that male players like dressing the origins up in harnesses and bearly any clothes though they prefer Shadowheart over Astarion that hair pulling dark Justiciar kiss is what they want.

Wow, thank you Marielle for that insightful post! It would explain a lot and now things have taken an even darker turn. Larian either didn't do their homework or just wanted a cheap sensation.


My inspiration led me to even more work in Paint and here is the result:




As I mentioned earlier, it's not only the animations during the kiss and the facial expression in the epilogue but also questionable faces after the kisses (which you can see in the images - the circus location you can see in the background is intentional).

Please throw a link to this petition in the thread when it comes up, I'd like to join.


The sadistic content lovers forum is talking about this, and praises these videos very highly, including in terms of the realism of Tav and Astarion's facial expressions. Some people who don't play RPG games at all and didn't care about BG3 before, bought the game to make Tav the girl to their liking, have a quick run on low difficulty to the ritual, put her under Lord Astarion and have fun.

Oh, it really made me feel lousy. I wrote in another thread about the emotions that came over me while going through those scenes on myself - let's just say it's clearly NOT fun. Especially digging through all that (I'm not judging those who enjoy it, but it's kind of not supposed to be in classic RPGs, no?).

I just want to stick up for Astarion, and it would really be very interesting to generally understand the motivations of those who do this to him.


Yeah. Or not kissing Astarion. "One last kiss" before fighting Cazador, damn it. That doesn't fit his character or the rest of his lines at all. I always, when playing with Astarion, choose the most loving phrases possible, I finished the first playthrough with patch 5, there was a very beautiful, tender and in its own way "warm" story. It will be very funny *hysterical laughter if in the second playthrough with the same lines will be combined with such kisses.

I'll sign it too... TWICE if I can.... I've already emailed Larian about this subject as a feedback but I have no idea if they take it to heart or not, a petition might help much more.

Hey! I hope that the most part of you romance improvements become real, but some of them is already done.

Act. 3
5. The Haarlep scene <-- They have done this!!!

10. Is possible, but only happens if you don’t take a long rest after his ascension. The video:


11. THIS ONE GOT ME!!! We have the change after using the astral tadpole. Is a transformation, so when tav become a spawn is kind of sad that nothing change. We only have the pose, the buff and the vampiric bite, and I don’t know how because tav don’t have fangs. We must do somenthing about this, so Larian will bring this in some patch!

12. These lines exist in the dev notes, they were recorder, but for some reason they don’t appear while we play. These --> https://shiakihades.tumblr.com/post/737825265777033216

14. This is a good one because the concept of bride/groom has never been explored much in DnD, and Ascendant is a new type of vampire, maybe is different in many more aspects, so only the writers know about this.

19. No more Tav’s Thrall Astarion. <-- They have done this now!!!

I'm sorry, but there is no way Larian hired a freelance professional "Sadistic 3D porn animator" specifically for... kiss animations. They have their own team of animators that seem quite capable of achieving what's shown in those scenes, not to mention the mo-cap actors doing their thing. I'd like to add that the Larian animators I've seen online seem quite aware of the story and characters, one of them even added in a hand kiss based on Gale fanart.

It's very evident to me those faces weren't included with the intent to be sexy or because someone might find it sexy. Whether or not you agree or think this was the wrong way to do it they're trying to send out the message that A.Astarion is abusive, simple as. That being said I also disagree with the notion that this was put in to punish players, we shouldn't take story consequences so personally and instead just reflect on it, but that's another topic entirely. As is, it's just a poorly thought-out reaffirmation of something that was already clear if you play the game.

It's even off for an audience that imagines themselves in Astarion's place. It's probably a big slap in the face for them. (Sadists are the small part that headcanon)
Astarion realizes that ritual is an evil act. But he wants to do it anyway. It will be a dream come true and dreams must be paid for.
And so the deed is done.
A dream come true, he had help. No matter what, now we've done it together.
For those who associate themselves more with this character than with Tav, it shows that no matter what shit you do, if you have the faithful person by your side, who trusts you completely, is open to you - everything will be fine and fun.
Also such people realize, they are not perfect. Living with them can be destructive... Decadence. But this person is just like me and wants it all?
You care a great deal about this person. And in reality, people like that can't take everything for objective reasons, lol. That's why there are s\m d\s with clear rules.
There are no rules for Vampire Lord Astarion. He doesn't let go, that's where the darkness comes in. But a man like that wouldn't be pleased to see a victim-Tav in his face anyway. At all. That's why Astarion gets so triggered when he's called a Cazador. He has a temper, he has darkness in him - but it's different. He is not dictated by anything other than his personality.
That's why he's letting Tav and Karlach go. It makes him feel better if Tav's into it.
That's why Astarion says "live your best life, even if you don't appreciate it" - it shows how he is even in the illogical Angst-Tav line.
More fun for such people is a faithful spouse who understands and trusts. An evil kindred spirit.
Face victim-Tav is wrong on just a few levels.