Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

Finally signed up just to say thank you for your comments and thoughts. It's so important not to feel alone in this. Every time I see people cheering for making Astarion even more abusive to Tav I just lose my mind from heartbreak. I can't understand people hating their fellow fans so much. This update indeed was supposed to be a joyful experience, not witnessing re-writing the favourite character on the go to turn him 180.

Thank you again. -hugs-

Awww, thank you too! We are definitely not alone in this!


Since I mentioned Haarlep earlier... I just remembered that if you go through with the whole ordeal with him, AA is actually sorry for Tav and feels bad about their bodily autonomy being violated. But now, when the abuse comes from him it's fine.

Just to enjoy, a happy face Tav. And a gentle kiss like the night of turning. Is that too much?
Maybe better to remember what fantasy Vampire Lord Astarion and the kiss with him that Tav chooses is needed for: Don't wake me up. Just leave me there dreaming

"Finally signed up just to say thank you for your comments and thoughts".(2) I don't have anything else to add, s??o I just pasted mist1e's quote.

I once debated something like this, regarding ?? on youtube for 2 days. I was bullied. It was awful.

It's so nice to see like-minded people.

Thank you all. Hugs.

Thank you @Ametris for your kindness & appreciation of how some of us were thinking before the Patch 6 changes without judgment. I want everyone to be happy with their own choices in the game as well. Since there are opportunities that Larian could take on instead of going with a simple good vs evil storyline, I think they should at least understand what we who DO know the lore of the realm they are using, were thinking when they animate it in the way they did. Also, the writing/animation as shown up to this point, can be interpreted in many different ways without a clear concise set choice of only good vs evil. Does ascension only mean a true vampire that can walk in the sun? That is not what they clearly had shown in my particular playthrough. Nor do I find that the game is only one path of good or one path of evil. There is a LOT of gray in all the character choices that are not being considered. I also had trust in them to be writing for adults who know there is no such thing as always evil or always good, but more realistic type worlds would be always moving the alignment dependant on your choices plus the knowledge of what is learned during the journey. I thought they would do something a little different with the "Ascension" aspect instead of the old trope of just taking only a true vampire who doesn't have any problems with the sun and is going to have no emotions. If they don't want to be a little more creative with their "homebrew" decision, fine. I don't have to play into their no-choice scenario. It shows me that when they said they wanted feedback since the game is not as complete as they stated, then surprise! I won't buy another damn thing from them. I just fell for the player choices & roleplay like a DnD situation to absolutely no choice at all. Shame on me for falling for the lies if that is the route they choose, but the game was different when it came out up to this patch 6. There is a possibility that they might take some of the hope I had for them & apply it to improve the story they went towards, but if they don't....then it was me that was fooled. Plus there are still mountains of bugs where you get "continue" for dialog or a cutscene doesn't play or anything that malfunctions doesn't allow you parts of the story. I have tried to see as much as possible, and have played a huge amount of time up until the dreaded patch 6. Now, I will not trust them until they show the whole package of their "story" or "plan". I had a lot of hope, but I guess Hope did die on Patch 6 day for me. This is my opinion only. I don't want any blowback because I am EXTREMELY TIRED of the arguments & fighting. It shows me that the players can not have an adult conversation without being an adult. Everyone is entitled to opinions, I don't have to agree with your opinion, nor do you have to agree with mine. Instead, stop....think & wonder about possibilities instead of just saying only one road is the "right" way.

You are not alone <3 Hugs back and thank you for commenting, it is very important people express their concernings about these new "kisses" (which shows sexual abuse) - and without being bullied by others.


It is so sad to hear… I feel for everyone, who is bullied by other people. And it's hard to defend yourself against it.

Please remember, it's not you! Those bullies are bad people who lack Empathy! They are Internet trolls, going onto youtube channels and into the Larian forum (!), also in this thread (!) to post „inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous messages with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses or manipulating others' perception, thus acting as a bully or a provocateur. The behavior is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or purposefully causing confusion or harm to other people“ (From Wiki, because my English is not the best)

The best is, to keep in mind, what these people are.

These are people who exhibit everyday sadism and/or dark triad characteristics, i.e. narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. These people are often cruel and have no sincere sympathy for other people. Don’t let those people hurt you… the best way is to keep in mind that and IGNORE them. Not to answer on trolling comments, or answer back only with sarcasm or if you can control the discussion. If you try to defend yourself, they are getting pleasure from it, because of their everyday sadism. They are into hurting others.

So, just my tip to everyone: Do not reply to forum or internet trolls. And keep in mind, that these people have sadistic, psychopathic and narcissistic traits (!). The best is to stick to people, who are sincere and empathic.
Nirraart has a youtube channel for ascended Astarion fans, and she deletes every troll comment, so it’s a safe place there to discuss with other AA fans.

Again, thank you for coming here and feel also free to discuss with us <3

I just found this from Dark Urge Diaries on YouTube Ascended Astarion New Kisses No Scared Expressions

It's a lot better just from changing the angles. Tav is still not looking happy and she is still worryingly doll-like and unresponsive, but seeing that someone can produce this gives me hope that changes might be made. The response to the video is generally positive, too.

I don't usually interact with discussions online and just observe the comments like I have been doing these last couple of days on this thread. I think there are a lot more of us than is apparent when browsing online. I would certainly not interact with a thread where I see others with the same opinions as me being bullied left and right.

Patch 6 completely broke the romance for me and in BG3 romance is a huge part of the game. The faces are as everyone says insulting and horrible. My Tav is out of character, Astarion is out of character. I understand someone else may view the romance differently (although I do not see how they could enjoy it or explain away his caring dialogs) but in my playthrough it absolutlely makes no sense.
Domination without respect is just bullying and submission without consent is just abuse.

Thankfully I still manage to think of Astarion fondly, what this have done is making me scared of new game patches. And my trust in the devs is in shambles.

I hope I don't get scolded for derailing the conversation but I have been thinking about this too again these past few days. I wonder if this strong, blunt emphasis on abuse was a later addition. Most of Astarion's story on his "good" path strikes me as overcoming his selfishness. In Act 1 he only cares about himself and uses the PC, in Act 2 he realises that he does not entirely like this behaviour and we slowly start to learn about his conflicting feelings towards what he had to do for Cazador, but he also learns about the ritual which eventually places him in a situation in which he has to choose between a very selfish action (condemning 7006 souls to eternal torture for his benefit) and recognising that other people are more than mere objects to be used. Cazador's abuse of his spawn is in this context just one facet of his selfishness, that was fostered by the environment he lived in, but it's just a part of a larger picture. He is exploiting everything and everyone and thinks only of himself - more than even Velioth, I'd argue.

It might be just me but the whole "I want you to live a life you can be proud of" and him being better than Cazador, the whole laser-focus on the abuse story, derails a bit from the things he learned about himself during Act 2, which is empathy.

In this context I also really do appreciate how the Gur are written, who are monster hunters but they aren't stupid monster hunters. The moment they learn that Astarion has the capability of being a person, they treat him like one. A monster isn't what you are but how you behave.

@Zayir Thank you for your support <3

-The scene with Gur seems strange to me. He just walked up to them. They are hunters, they just let him go. I remember that there was cut content with gourami and it seems to me that the story with them should not be so simple. Gurs also attack AA, but how did they know that he would definitely do evil, but the spawn would definitely correct itself. Vampires/spawns in D&D are always evil. Larian decided to romanticize the spawns, I honestly don’t know how to feel about this because the drama in act 3 seems too unrealistic. Overall, the Gur concept of forgiveness may well exist, I agree with you, but I think there is not enough context there, very
-Regarding any Astarion, I want to say that his behavior changes too dramatically throughout the game. It’s just that it’s not years, but our journey takes 1-3 months. I mean, if there had been a time skip due to some circumstances, it would have looked more realistic.The example is already in the game, AA is much calmer after 6 months if they don't change that too. And when a person changes in 6 months, it is more realistic than instant changes.
-The ritual seems strange to me too. Larian talks about 7000 souls, clearly showing us 10-20 spawns. When I see these cells on 5 NPCs, they really take me out of the immersion...I understand that this is a gaming convention, but in a cinematic game, it is a strange convention. I just concluded that this was a late idea to show that we would do something bad by killing these spawns. But leaving them alive, sending them underdark, is good...
In general, the ritual would not have changed much if the 7 spawns had remained the victim, but Astarion's relationship with them would have been deeper and more tragic. Personally, I don’t feel sorry for people in cages, I don’t know them. At the same time, I have never cut out a grove, because... I knew Tieflings and Halsin, and although I like Mintara, I couldn't play like that.
-And now, on top of everything else, we also have kisses, also without dynamics or meaning.


And I’ll add a little about abuse. Alas, I experienced this firsthand as a child. Maybe that's why I'm so angry at Larian? I don't really like to see weakness in such situations. This applies to both Spawn and Tav now.( I also understand that I am overly obsessed with this game =D)



The point is that by adding abuse to the game, Larian is walking on extremely thin ice. On the one hand, it’s not bad to touch upon such social problems, on the other hand, there are moments that personally hurt me and I’m not very pleased with it. I really miss the RP elements in the dialogues with the lord, because... I do not Ascended him for the proposed options. And now I have no options, even in these animations. Yes, I don’t have to press them, I rarely press them. But I know it's there.

I did this on my first playthrough and you do get a really caring comment from AAstarion later when you go through the streets of Baldur's gate. If i remember correctly he says something like "Gods, though I've become untouchable my precious treasure is violated still" And Tav can say they hope Harleep gets bored after a while, Astarion responds "I can't imagine getting bored of all that myself" while Tav looks slyly back at him. He then adds "I know what's done is done, but I'm sorry all the same." with the saddest face. It is such a good interaction and almost made the Harleep scene worth going through. And for the most badass reply you can give to Raphael when he confronts you, it had me chuckling for days after.

I'll throw in another hug.


Not only that but the people we actually see are poor helpless children, a romantic sweet young man and a couple of mute and oddly calm randoms. As I mentioned in another thread: "When you tell Astarion that in another life you'd have been one of his victims, a fool who wanted to love him he actually says that many of his targets were petty criminals, street drunkards and brothel-goers. That people like Sebastian only happened from time to time. The majority of the spawn are actually questionable or even downright reprehensible individuals. They are in a much worse state than he'd ever was, completely ravenous, as he puts it. Why doesn't the game show us these people, only the innocent folk?"

Looks like emotional manipulation to me.


This would have been a much better way to tell the story rather than cheap tricks to evoke sympathy.


Nirraart posted today a great short that further shows how ridiculous the kisses are and how they even contradict what Astarion says about Tav: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dTYZg4eJjvU.



It's the sickest burn in the game.

Same. There's one thing I don't understand. In Act 1, we see that Larian has very good writers. I still love act1. But I don't understand what happens to them in act 3. Why, at the very end of history, such manipulations are used... children, violence, victims, SA.... But really well-developed ideas are simply cut out.
In general, during EA, I thought that Astarion’s story would be like “crime and punishment” and not “only a victim” - Spawn “Abuser” - Lord. Now with these animations, Larian has simply simplified the Lord into an abuser. And yes, all this is contrasted with caring with a bit of slight dominance....

Join all that was said before.
I was so excited when I saw Patch 6 new, but then the kissing scene felt like a slap on my face.
The Tav's reaction is such an un-character. My Tav is into it, she kneeled during the night, and she didn't mind it to be hurt. And after all of this, we received fear, sadness, and disgust.

I literally felt frozen because of those scenes and required hot tea and blanked to warm myself.

I have only hope that Larian will fix that. But, honestly, only hope and zero expectation.
And now the beautiful dark romance that we had before - stays as a headcanon.

I would pay money for a mod that changed it to this so I can play the game again.

This game now fosters tolerance for sadism. Yes, and before such things were available, but only to those who specifically sought such content, now - it gets in the face of everyone who had the misfortune to believe in some magical world, with a realistic and deep story, some special, inexpressible, unprecedented before in any game "healing" love. Aside from the ruined "dark romance" with completely killed narrative logic, I wonder if the Larians even thought about how many players ascended Astarion not "for evil"? Or in their cardboard-template thinking, is the variant of Spawn - a broken, Tav-adjusted human with a "burning ending" - such a wonderful "good," "bittersweet" (I used to get sick of that wordplay even earlier)? I honestly, just wish I could look into the eyes of the man who came up with this and ask him who he hates more, Astarion or us? The ones who dared to love Astarion? And bought their game (without any warning that suddenly, I emphasize, suddenly, 6 months after release, there will be sadistic content in it), bought all kinds of Astarion t-shirts in their store, souvenirs, etc. Yes, it's our Tav's facial expressions that the sadists like. Do the Larian animators like it too? At the very least, at this point, it's safe to say that those who are excited about this, "AA has always been like this", "the developers decided this, and the PCs have your role", really like it. We are being victimized for our own money, made a "minority" that can and should be disadvantaged, "in the name of goodness and morality in gaming". In the game. Traumatize real people for allowing 7000 spawns to be killed in the game. I don't know what Larian and Astarion will do next, I really hope that other game studios whose games I'll be buying see this and realize how despicable it is and don't do something like this in their games EVER. For some reason, other studios that make choice-based RPGs give their players both the "path of good" without "burning endings" and the "path of evil" without violence and abuse.

These pictures of Astarion I will keep because they are quite symbolic. Larian has broken Astarion, they are now cutting him in half, creating two cardboard images - the burning sufferer and the "true vampire" - the sadist. By the way, when playing with AA now it seems as if one is communicating with a mentally ill person, with split personality or bipolar disorder, the only difference is that such patients in reality usually have personality changes for some periods, while here - only in specific one-time moments, with a trigger for "kissing". I'd gladly give it all up and trash this game if I wasn't hurting for him.


I really sympathize with you. I too was really triggered by those scenes, I even fixated on them and couldn't stop. And I too felt like my Tav was going to die, though not physically, but emotionally. Only instead of fear, there would be the pain of rejection and broken "love-acceptance" on her face. It was a story about fully accepting each other, completely, for who they are. Just as Tav was accepting of the real Astarion, helping him to open up and be himself, Astarion was deeply attached to Tav, and he never, not once, hurts Tav in the story. It's just that the hurt is then replaced with anger. This smells like lousy propaganda, when a propagandist makes a "fake video" for the purpose of inciting hatred against someone. Yes, developers, can't make a "fake video", everything they do is considered true, they are masters of their world. But given the complete, utter incongruity of this sadistic content with the game's story, with Astarion's character, with Astarion and Tav's relationship, it still smells like lousy propaganda.


Yes, sadistic content attracts sadists of all stripes. Now Larian will certainly boost sales at the expense of this particular category of "players".


By the way, an interesting point - heterosexual male player can do any evil he wants in this game, romance with pleasure anyone, there are still all sorts of Misors and brothels, a complete break. No "punishments" or "morals". Only a heterosexual woman or homosexual man can be a victim of violence. When I started playing BG3, I liked that the developers thought about female audience - beautiful romances (until patch 6 were), possibility to choose strong female body for realistic warrior roleplay, etc. Now it just scares me - in what way are they thinking about the female audience? What is in the heads of those people who make such animations for our Tavs?


And such people are more likely to understand and love Astarion. If the person who came up with this sadistic content hasn't thought about it, then he's extremely stupid. And if he did, then it's a different question of who he is....


It's also a shame that the player is the most unprotected consumer. If you don't like it, drop it, don't buy it... It goes without saying that you should avoid a studio that allows sadistic content in its game and inflicts emotional trauma on its own players. But how many hours of our lives have we given to that? If you sign up for a pre-made food delivery service, say for a month, and one day you get something delivered that makes you throw up, you can deal with the provider of that food, no one is going to tell you they're right and cook it the way they want. And if they do something to you in the game that makes you sick, it's your own fault, the developers just see it that way. They see their players as victims.

Hugs to everyone who was upset by this patch. We have the right to talk about it, and we have the right to be heard.

I would like to add that Larian decided to tell us the story of the victim and two possible developments of events.
1) The victim found a defender.
2) The victim gains power.
I don’t like option 1, but this is my personal opinion, I understand the part of people who like it.

The second option, more profound, I cannot deny that there are cases when, having received power, the victim becomes an offender... However, this does not always happen. Here Larian imposes a stereotype on us.
Personally, I find this stereotype an insult. Okay, Larian wants to make AA evil. It's normal, I saw him as evil back in EA. But being evil does not mean mocking the person who helped you. Moreover, in AA outside of kisses, there are no these traits. And what Larian shows has nothing to do with “great conscious, cunning and intelligent evil” For some reason, Larian reduces evil to a caricature. You're evil - slaughter the Tieflings, hit the squirrel, don't forget about the children and of course, kill Isobel, Night Song to your detriment, and then even Astarion makes a comment about how stupid this is. By the way, this shows that Astarion is a pragmatist, he is adequate and does not commit evil, simply in the name of evil, therefore, he has no reason to hurt Tav.




I defended this game and Larian very strongly during EA, now I realize how wrong I was in doing so...I was disappointed in the release and then I saw Larian brush off criticism, and now this whole situation. But I continued to play. 800 hours and 53/54 achievements. And you know, even though I was disappointed, I still believed in Larian, I even bought DOS2, even though I’m not interested in it. You really can't feel safe in the gaming industry. It is even more naive to trust the developer.



Hugs to everyone who was upset by this patch (2)

I'm sorry, but the last few videos of the Ascended Astarion kiss and epilogue are edited to the point, where you do not see the full effect of the free cam mod. Tav's body language is still balled up fists, a disgusted look on their face, slumped body posture & total unhappiness. After the brain fight, the pre-epilogue has Astarion go into a speech where your Tav is slumped, looking sad, frowning, and unhappy up until he offers his hand & they walk out of the room, which is the only part where they do look happy. I would rather you choose to show the entire thing, than a heavily edited shot that does not show the entire thing, just to satisfy people who have the supposed dom/sub fantasy that they are acting like it is, which is their own choice & their own opinions. There is a lot left out if you don't have the full story, if you choose to edit out the shots that show why we & many others are upset, to begin with. One thing it does show in these particular videos that you guys shared, is that the fantasy of their headcannon, but to wipe out why we are upset. Unfortunately, it does not delete what Larian is actually conveying. Also, does no one else see how Ascended Astarion shakes his head in disappointment towards Tav? This was deliberately done on Larian's part & many of us, do not agree with the direction they took a character to service the few that have this particular fantasy prior to patch 6. Let the YT creators have their fantasy as well, but just please see that the clips are edited to show you only the parts where they don't have to break with their own headcannon & for them to continue to make content with Ascended Astarion. Just so everyone is fully aware. The videos are in fact, edited for the creators to continue with their headcannon & not show the parts they do not agree with or do not like. So public service announcement, I guess is what I am just warning those of you who have watched the entire forum, since the beginning. I AM NOT shaming or invalidating their headcannon either, just making a statement that may need to be there for those who do not read all the comments that this long forum has.

Yessss you are so right!!! I watched some of the videos on YouTube where the camera angles were different and you couldn't see Tav's scared face and it made a HUUUGE difference!! If Larian would only change the expressions slightly I'd be satisfied enough. I wonder if they're aware of our concerns.