Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Advice wanted : Choosing more than 2 classes ?

Hello I would like to ask if anyone has experience with player characters that have more than 2 classes. (Didn't find an existing thread, apologies if I missed one)

In my current PT I'm at lvl 4 and combined my 2 fav. classes Bard(lvl3)/Ranger(lvl1)
(It's a duergar, wielding 2 hand crossbows. Like it very much so far)
I 'm wondering if I could make a 3 class player : bard/ranger/warlock, but I'm afraid it will lead to catastrophy once I get to face the mighy bosses at the end with max. level of 4 or 5 in each class, and I don't want to waste hundred hours or so to walk into an impossible endgame.

What do you think, is this feasible or better to stick to just 2 classes and raise each to lvl 6 or 7 ?

It all depends on the build whether it would be good or not.


In your case since it's a Duergar crossbow Bard/Ranger, what is the Warlock class meant to provide for your character exactly?

Thanks for the response. Those numbers are quite impressive.

As to why I want the warlock in addition to bard and ranger, there are a few reasons. One is immersion, I like the bard and ranger class, but would also love to have some spellcasting abilities and as my CHA is good, the warlock seems most appropriate. Also I'm currently running with Karlagh, Laezel and Shadowheart, so no mage in the party so far. I want to try to keep this team as long as possible, but at one time I guess I will need a mage for counterspell and AOE spells. Maybe I can arrange that with multiclassing and keep my amazons in the team. (I even plan to enroll Minthara and possiby swap Shadowheart for her. I think a team with Minthy, Karlagh and Lae'zel would be a nice challenge)

I haven't studied the possibility to leave out a mage NPC very deeply yet. I first wanted some input whether "dilluting" levels over too many classes was a viable option, but your example proves it 's possible so I can take some time to study the possibilities.

Another reason for adding the warlock is that my PC is the spokesperson and I would love to have some spellcaster options in the discussions. The main reason why I chose a Duergar was actually to see if/what particular talk options and reactions this class would trigger. So far, disappointingly few. But I'm still working on the surface of act 1. I hope there will be more when I get into the underdark.

So thanks for the input, and I 'm curious for any other reports of 3 or more classed characters. The good and the bad.

You need a real reason for dipping into 3 classes, either from lore or gameplay performance. The party composition or builds do not matter on lower difficulty settings. If you are playing Honour mode, I would not use your party and build.

Bard is one of the strongest classes, and you have Shadowheart as Cleric as another strong class. The rest is a bit meh, but ok. From my perspective having not a Wizard 12 or Sorcerer 12 in the party is a mistake. Not having a Paladin is also not that good. You are lacking defense, especially defense against spells with saving throws. Which can ruin your playthrough if you get unlucky.

To the build, I do not fully understand your intentions. The dip into Warlock seems to give you not much. The part of Ranger I get even less, why do you want it in? So what is your vision of your build at lvl 12, what do you want to achieve? For me a build should give high core attributes, as many feats and initiative as high as, and as many attacks as soon as possible. With your speccing you have to wait more than necessary for the first feat (lvl 4) and the second attack (lvl 5/6). As a martial (which a Bard partly is especially as School of Swords) you should go straight to the second attack and dip later.

My main in my Honour mode run indeed was a dip into three classes. I wanted a crit build and went Warlock 2/Fighter 4/Sorceress 6 ( I specced first into Sorceress and respecced later). The playstyle was mainly as Warlock, an upgraded Eldritch Blast is the best damage spell in the game. The big disadvantage of the build is that you get only two feats, so Charisma could be only at 18 (with the help of the hat you can buy at 20) because I wanted the + crit feat. I constantly considered to do a Warlock 4/ Sorcerer 8 instead, with an even better Eldritch Blast. The dip into Fighter however had some benefits I did not want to miss.

There's two main things to keep in mind here:

1) The game isn't hard enough to punish exploring different non-optimal concepts. A lot of folks don't even realize the power of things like Hold Person, because while it's objectively superior to just dumping damage, dumping damage is enough to do the job even in honor mode. I intend to eventually do a jack of all trades honor mode solo run, because frankly the game isn't hard enough for that to be unattainable. So no worries if you want multiple classes even just for lore or feelings, it shouldn't prevent you from clearing end game content, and if it is preventing you from doing so, you can revisit your tactics, prep, and approach to combats and find massive opportunities for improvement far before your build needs to change.

2) For any build, when it comes to adding a level of something else vs a level of your current class, the question is always simply this:
What am I gaining, and what am I giving up?
For most spellcasters, for example, I like to splash a level of Wizard for at least one if not multiple casters. This is because with the way Larian implemented and interpreted Wizards, one level of them is enough to provide access to all spells available to a Wizard of their total spellcaster level. So a Bard 11 / Wizard 1 is giving up a feat, and a spell known for Bard. That feat could be an ASI for Charisma, so they're potentially giving up +1 to their spell save DC and spell attack modifier, or it could be something else of course. In return, they gain the ability to know all Wizard spells of 1st through 6th level, the ability to cast any and all of them out of combat, and an additional amount of prepared spells in combat equal to 1+Int Mod. Generally I find that tradeoff to be advantageous.

Bard 8/Sorc 3/Wiz 1 gains +1 total spells known vs Bard 11 / Wiz 1, far more cantrips, and more importantly gains metamagic including possibly twin spell and quicken spell, letting them "go nova" via the expenditure of their long rest resources more effectively, in exchange for losing out on 5th and 6th level bard spells, magical secrets, expertise, better bardic inspiration, and some HP. Is that worth it? Maybe maybe not, depends on your party, strategies, and playstyle including but not limited to how often you long rest. But that's the kind of evaluation you'll want to do. So I ask you - when adding warlock, what exactly do you hope to gain from it, and how does the value of that compare to what you'll miss out on?

Thanks for the input. Let me add that this is my 3rd PT, so it is time to try some new things. Still, the prospect of hitting a brick wall after 100 hrs or so of play is a a cause of some uncertainty, and the reason why I appreciate your advice.

Currently I'm Lvl 5 : 3 bard, 2 ranger, entered in the underdark, still with Lae'zel, Karlagh and Shadowheart. The team performs well. Defeated the ogres while still lvl 4. Auntie Ethel, the spider matriarch both at lvl 5 and the bullette at lvl 5 were all defeated quite swiftly without me needing to help a knocked out party member back to its feet. Against the Githyanky patrol Karlagh got knocked out though.
But compared to my previous runs this is very good. Especially Gale, being the preferred target of the baddies, needed to be helped up in about every major battle in previous PT's.
With this party I did have to rely on scrolls and potions of fly, misty srtep or dimension door more than before . So when these items run out it may become more problematic.

So, I still intend to dip in a mage class also. Probably not before lvl 7. My choice of warlock was based on the primary ability of CHA, which matches with the bards'. I could also take sorcerer, but I already tried both classes in EA and preferred warlock. I think I never quite understood the sorcerer points and metamagic concepts during my trial. But now I'm hesitating. The warlock's eldritch blast is a cool spell, but there may be too much overlap with my bard/hunter missile skills. So apart from the pushing effect, maybe eldritch blast will not add much that I don't have with my 2 crossbows. I definitely need to reconsider whether sorcerer wouldn't be a better choice.

As for the ranger, except for its appeal to me as RP character and as a archer, I also wanted to get heavy armor and shield proficiency for my PC. AC has always been a worry for my PC in previous PT's.

(Another option would be to multiclass one of the NPC's but I don't want to do that for roleplay reasons, so all the multiclassing will go on my PC.)

Yeah, you are already good at ranged damage, so Warlock Eldritch Blast would not add much. The Ranger provides the physical damage and the Bard provides the Crowd Control spells. You don’t really need to add damage spells. You would need 5 levels of Sorcerer to add the important spells Counterspell and Haste (or Fireball). I would suggest instead that you stick with Lore Bard to Level 6 to pick up 2 of these with Magical Secrets. To get the extra attack, you would want Ranger 5. Probably end up Bard 7 / Ranger 5.

What difficulty are you playing on? I'm always a bit hesitant to applaud those who say that the game is very easy no matter what, also or especially in Honour mode solo runs (I never saw real gameplay in solo runs, just cheese), there are at least some differences which might influence. However, you can actually not hit a brick of wall after x hours of gameplay in this game because you can always respecc and realign. I see that as a great fun aspect, as I'm not a masochistic old school RPG enthusiast, I like experimenting. Try things out.

As much as I like Warlock, I think Sorcerer might be a better dip. Especially if you want to use the Bard for control spells. Control spells in my game have the unpleasant property to not hit when it is necessary the most, despite amassing Spell DC. The Sorcerer by metamagic can give disadvantage to saving throw spells which is a huge help in some situations. I changed my plans for my build in my current Custom mode run at lvl 5 because enemies are so buffed up and I seem to need control spells, I will go Sorcerer for 6 or 8 levels.

BTW heavy armor is not that good in the game. You can achieve the same or better with medium armor as long as you invest in Dexterity (a good attribute because it also raises initiative). Before the last fights in my Honour mode run my Shadowheart with the best heavy armor in the game has AC 26 unbuffed, Astarion with medium armor has AC 25. So I find the dip into Ranger not that convincing, especially as good heavy armor is not present in early levels. It's good however if you want Sleight of Hand from him.

@geala : I didn't mean to say I find the encounters easy. That seemed to have come out wrong. I meant that having 2 melee fighters and no mage in the party turned out to be surprisingly much easier than I had anticipated. Gale in my party is a heavy user of magic missiles and scorching ray. in Act 1 But even without these spells, my 2 heavy hitters managed quite well. And the other advantage is that Gale frequently needs to be helped up, so that offsets his magig missile power somewhat. I play on balanced mode by the way.

My latest PT was the dark urge as drow bard, with a bit (3 lvl) of warlock mixed in to get the eldritch blast. In the last stage of the game I managed to get the PC to an AC of 18. The highest AC in that party was Minthara in heavy armor (but no shield as dual wielder) with 25. Gale had 15 and Shadowheart 21. Unfortunately I can't reload the saves since patch 6 to see the details, I just saved a screenshot of the party at the time so I can still see the numbers but nothing more.

Right now in Act 1, the bard/ranger already has AC 18, because +1 chain mails are readily for sale.

So there's a few things I would recommend considering here. Sorry in advance, this is a long one:

1) Spell Slots. Bard is a full caster. Ranger is a half caster. For every odd numbered Ranger level you take, you effectively lose one on your total spellcaster level. So a Bard 9 / Ranger 3 is a 10th level caster (as is a Bard 8 / Ranger 4) while a Bard 10 / Ranger 2 is a 11th level caster. This is important in determining both the total number of spell slots you have, as well as the highest level spells you can cast, in turn determining how long you can go without a long rest and how much "burst" you can output. The reason I mention this all is that it's important to keep in mind as far as how far you want to go in Ranger. It also affects your multiclassing - Wizard and Sorcerer (and Cleric and Druid) are full casters whose total spellcaster level adds to Bard when determining the spell slots you have. Meanwhile Warlock is a unique spellcaster. Their spell slots are separate from other spellcasters, so while they're a full caster and they get 3rd level spells at 5 just like Wizard and the rest of them, a Bard 5 / Warlock 5 has 2 3rd level slots from Warlock and the 2 3rd level, 3 2nd level, and 4 1st level slots from a 5th level Bard. Conversely a Bard 5 / Wizard or Sorcerer 5 has the 2 5th level, 3 4th level, 3 3rd level, 3 2nd level, and 4 1st level slots of a 10th level caster.

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Spells#Spell_slots

2) Overlap. I agree entirely with smberg, Ranger / Bard has ranged single target damage covered in full, especially if you go College of Swords. You can pop a bunch of Ranged Slashing Flourishes to dish out a silly number of attacks per round. As an example, a 6th level Bard / 3rd level Ranger can use 2 slashing flourishes (for 4 attacks), a bonus action attack, and another slashing flourish off Horde Breaker, for 7 attacks in one round, without even using haste or burning any long rest resources. Assume 20ish average damage per attack and you're at 140 damage. Haste can get you another 3, apply vulnerability via Illithid Powers (assuming you're not on honor mode) and you can be dishing out 400+ damage before even hitting level 10, if you want. That's without even considering crits and with plenty of room to boost that figure higher. Eldritch Blast is great. Generally I think for the strongest builds out there it's a weaker Magic Missile and I personally mostly like it for the no save push effect, but the bigger issue is that it directly overlaps with something you can already do well - Very well in fact. It's generally better to invest in something which gives you the ability to use a resource you're not currently using effectively, rather than another option for the expenditure of a resource you're already using (an action for ranged damage, in this case).

3) Multiclass Spell Progression. High level spells are generally stronger than lower level spells (certainly not universally but it's nice to at least have the option), and getting for example 5 levels in Sorcerer and 5 levels of Bard means you know 3rd level spells of each, but no 4th level or higher spells in either class. And to get Counterspell via Sorcerer, you do indeed need a minimum of 5 levels. The only exception to this is Wizard, with Wizard you've got the ability to learn and cast spells of any slot you know, which means if you have Bard 4 / Wizard 1, you have Counterspell available. This unique mechanic is part of what makes Wizard such an attractive "splash" to me.

With that foundation in place, let's look at the level progression for Bard and Ranger and see what their power spikes are:

Bard
5 - Font of Inspiration changing Bardic Inspiration to a Short Rest recharge and Bardic Inspiration moving to a D8 is the biggest power spike Bard has, and it aligns with getting incredibly useful 3rd level spells including a very useful AOE damage / CC spell in Glyph of Warding as well as one of the best CC spells in the game in Hypnotic Pattern.
3 - 2nd level spells plus Expertise in 2 skills, a very powerful spike.
6 - Bards get their extra attack at 6 or magical secrets, making it very important.
10 - Improved Bardic Inspiration and 2 more Expertise
7, 9, 11 - Higher level spells always provide somewhat of a boost.
4, 8, 12 - Feats are good
In order of how impactful I think the levels are. All levels for Bard are good, but getting to 5 especially is absolutely crucial, and 6 as well if you are getting the extra attack from them.

Ranger
1 - Heavy Armor proficiency, 3 skill proficiencies or 2 and an extra boost like fire resist, Ranger is great for a 1 level splash.
2 - Spellcasting and a fighting style make a 2nd level very nice
3 - Subclass abilities, in many cases the most important ones for the class
5 - 2nd level spells and the extra attack feature and subclass features? Oh my!
11 - Extra attacks / better attacks, which are quite good and beyond the overlap obtained via the normal extra attack feature
4,8,12 - feats are good
the rest - kinda meh, not bad but not power spikes

So in my eyes Ranger is frontloaded, and the most important stuff for Bard if you're not going to 10 (which wouldn't align with MCing into 3 different classes) is getting to 6. In order to maximize your returns, I'd go Bard 6 / Ranger 3 at a minimum, which gives you 3 more levels to play with. Given that, Sorcerer 3 is an option, but it wouldn't get you counterspell which you listed as one of the specific targets. So I'd recommend:

Bard 8 / Ranger 3 / Wizard 1. Gives you extra attack and ranged flourish from Bard, Horde Breaker from Ranger, all the proficiencies you want, 2 feats, and 4th level spells with Bard, 5th level spells with Wizard, with a ton of your abilities recharging on short rest meaning you're effective all day long. The biggest downside is you're MAD as all getup. But you can have a Wis of 10 no problem, and you don't need Str for heavy armor in BG3. So if it were me I'd do Cha 16, Dex and Con 14, Int 12, Str and Wis 10. I'd also respec your 2nd Ranger level into Wiz now, go Bard until 6, pick up the other 2 ranger levels, then finish off with the last 2 bard levels as far as level order to get to your power spikes asap.

You can also go Sorcerer but if you want Counterspell *and* extra attacks *and* Sorcerer realistically Bard 6 / Ranger 5 / Sorc 1 would have to be the way to do it, which just gives you a lot less mileage all around.

A final note - with this build, especially if you go for feats like Actor or Sharpshooter, you're never going to have the best stats. But you can have spells that are utterly irresistible quite easily, by leveraging your silly number of attacks via slashing flourish to trigger a *bunch* of Arcane Acuity buffs from the helmet of the same name, turning 5 attacks or more in round 1 into +10 to your spell attack rolls and save DCs, at which point your stats hardly matter, the enemies are not making those saves (unless you're really targeting the wrong ability of theirs).

@GiantOctopodes - how are you getting Counterspell with the 1 level dip in Wizard? I usually think of a Wizard 1 dip for the ability to scribe scrolls, but there is no Counterspell scroll in the game. Can you Replace Spell to any spell in the Wizard list for which you have the appropriate total Spell Level?

@smberg that's entirely my bad, you are correct. I hadn't even realized. My apologies. Welp I still recommend that build and think it'll perform very well, but yeah, if you want Counterspell you'll need to go something like Lore Bard 6 / Ranger 5 / Wizard 1 which loses out on Slashing Flourish and thus makes for a much weaker build overall, or skip the Wiz and go Bard 7 / Ranger 5 as you had recommended, or go Bard 6 / Sorc or Wiz 5 / Ranger 1 which is missing the fighting style, horde breaker, ranger spells, and a few other things.

Thanks for clarifying. I actually played my first full playthrough as a Swords Bard with a 1 level dip in Wizard to learn spells from scrolls, but never clicked on the Replace Spell button with that character so thought I may have missed something.

Separately, I am a big fan of Rangers. I like starting out with 9 or 10 skills as a Wood Elf Ranger, all of the mobility options, stealth and sleight of hand utility, good perception checks, and ranged attacks making use of high ground mechanics in this game. However, if you want all of this plus spells, a straight Swords Bard 12 or Swords Bard 10 / Fighter 2 just does it better. I still prefer the Gloomstalker plus thief/assassin for a pure rogue type player. But mixing in spells, I prefer the Swords Bard.

Thanks alot for all the above. I definitely have a lot of homework to do to decide how to proceed. Wizard has certainly become attractive.

Can you remember how you got to 25 with heavy armor without a shield? That's interesting. Maybe I could get Shadowheart with shield to 28 then? I'm currently in a modded playthrough with higher enemy hit chances and damage, a high AC as possible would be nice.

Unfortunately, I cannot reload the saves from that run with patch 6.
I'm pretty sure she had the helldusk armor from Raphaël. That was the highest AC armor I could find up to now. I can't tell if her rings, boots or pendant gave any AC bonus.
All I have left of this heroic party are some screenshots. :-( . Maybe someone can identify some items from the picture and reverse-engineer the AC.



Edit : If you wonder about the high HP of the party members, I switched to explorer mode for the final fights, but this doesn't affect the AC. Only HP.

Thanks for the effort. That's the Helldusk armor. Then seemingly Sarevok's helmet, the hp amulet and the Mantle of the Holy Warrior, all giving no AC. I cannot see the Wondrous Gloves, Evasive Shoes or the True Love's Caress ring (which would be also out for me because I have much better options). Maybe there is +1 AC from the flail. Then perhaps +1 AC from Defense (what's her class?) and +1 AC from this feat for dual wielding melee weapons. With the 21 AC of the armor that would be 24 AC. Some item or so must give the other 1 AC.

As my Shadowheart is 12 Cleric and not dual wielding, and because there are much better weapons for her, at least 3 of your + AC are not possible. Ok, be it so.

Minthara is the standard drow palladin there. I didn't respec or multiclassed her.
That flail I think is the defender flail from Creche Ylek. It improves AC +1.

So on easy levels without power gaming yes you can succeed with 3 classes . These builds probably won’t work for you but I love them

In act 2 with ranger warlock Druid
I went 14 in the main stats early on, dex gloves and other items and you can respec abilities to get the 18’s later
Gloom stalker ranger knight for heavy armor I took halberd, halberd master and blade warlock gives me extra attack plus dip in spore Druid for an extra attack and extra hp. Getting a ton of roleplaying etc


In act 1 ranger rogue and 1 level in war cleric. War cleric extra attack early on and going sword and board with this. Again am I a superhero no but I’m doing consistent damage and a tank

Thnaks again for all the advice, but I have another question concerning above quote. Meanwhile I'm at lvl 7 : 4 bard/3 ranger. (I want to dip in a mage for next level but I'm still not decided if it will be sorcerer or wizard)

I have the horde breaker for ranger and flourishes for bard, but I haven't been able to combine them, as suggested in the quote above. If I use horde breaker, I couldn't find how to apply the flourish to the shots. I tried the other way around also. First choose the flourish and then apply horde breaker, but that didn't seem an option either.
Is there a specific order of actions that enables the combination ?

And one more question, suppose I would regret my choice of mage and want to respec from sorcerer to wizard e.g.. Does respeccing mean I have to redo everything from lvl 1 ( choose all feats and stuff for ranger and bard again) or can I keep the bard/ranger choices and just switch the 3rd class. (I suspect I'l have to respec everything, in which case I wouldn't want to rely too much on using it.)