Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

That's why I suggested those options in my thread https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=935975#Post935975 I created some time ago, thank you for bringing it up here, cause I sincerely think it would be the best option, just like in his third scene in Act 3 where you get to choose that way and both Astarion fans would get to be happy.

I also agree about the face expressions of Tav being just about the only bad thing in patch 6 with the exception of Astarion slightly slapping her in one of the kisses and then shaking his head with a very disgusted look in his face like he thinks "look at you, you're disgusting, such a low life nothing".

It only looks like that because of Tav face.
I wouldn't be surprised if Astarion enjoys intimate banter, tease. He's a rogue, after all.
I wrote in this thread that when a player can't move, which is potentially dangerous\uncomfortable, he holds back laughter. That's his regular line. Astarion as a spawn also pushes Tav down a bit.
Yeah, he likes to make some pretty cheeky jokes. It's like a game of "ta-ta, gotcha"
In my opinion, they went overboard on the "predatory face" thing.
And some mystical reason, the player character who made the choice, several times, looks like an AU from another ending or even another choice of companion.
Tav gets offended and disgruntled, which doesn't make sense on several level.
There's also a problem with the dynamics here. All three kisses are the same.
So it's weird on Larian's part that they decided to remove the regular kissing, in terms of rp a drow isn't going to kneel all the time, (kneel can be a one-time trust and obedience ceremony) and I think Lord Astarion would ate that up. Or they need to sit down and talk.
So in terms of player comfort (although it sounds like a joke now, because knees have been added at random and everywhere else), not everyone is in kink, choose Ascension for other reasons, I'm sure Astarion wouldn't say "no" to a "regular" kiss if his Treasure wants one.
"Any pleasure offered by the person" - as he said in the epilogue.

Larain also didn't think at all about content creators keeping that face
Making the only unhappy face during a kiss in this game. A Kiss.

Thousands of views, I don't know if that's a lot.
Nirrart - don't like it. Because of Tav face, knees on randoms, it's intimate. Getting tons of crap from crazy, senseless people. Thousands upon thousands of views
kkotova1 - Don't like Tav face either, makes content for thousands of views too.
Nyloth - a player with EA who studies story under a microscope and by all the ways. Tons of anger in the comments. She has long been disappointed by the "Evil Is Isolation" interview.

Reddit and Twitter, majority just bland, flat, operating on "Evil can't love or only abuse" b&w arguments, myths and bias. Like that AA fans didn't have abusive lives and other wounds.

Even Minthara can be hugged. Men are "things" in Drow culture.
Lord Astarion - You can't get a hug, can't get a kiss in the epilogue, now - if you can only get on your knees on random with a disgruntled face.
It's a line of attitude.

Well of course there are other content creators who make "look how yuck, bad" and "yeah, lovely, good" videos - stay. Why did they even choose Astarion?
A tender kiss during turn night in tik tok – comment literally: "nice spawn UwU" 800 likes. Nearly a thousand people, just following what put them in heads.
Probably among them is the one who did those kisses - identical in a row, with that face.
This is Lord Astarion, and Astarion is himself. Is Larian going to kill the complicated romance dynamic with the only evil male character in this game with his own hands so that the majority of fans wouldn't get confused again (eh?) Bravo. Though who cares.
My drama is high, of course.
Regular players who prefer this route are "woah, crap, waiting for patch 7 - this face should be fixed, probably someone will write to them, already".

This! Agree!
(Nr. 3 I don't need, but understand, when people don't like to kneel in ingame public)

The picture nailed it. Most of Neil's ingame voice lines for Ascended Astarion doesn't fit Tav’s portrayal/non-consensual kisses(=sexual violence).
How someone can screw this up so much is beyond my imagination. How they could even release it and harm so many players - That's a galaxy further away beyond my imagination. Self-destructive so to say. I hear from more and more fans, also content creators, they are feeling betrayed, left alone, excluded from game and community and are moving to other games – a pity.

I hope the current Larian Team/current Writers get the point across that no one wants to see Inconsistency and non-consensual kisses in their own romance, no matter what route they go.
Only resentful people or who enjoy the suffering of others or who simply don't care about other people applaud.



I can completely understand how you and everyone, who is not into it, feel, especially now with this non-consensual misconstruction of the scene..

But:
I just want to add my personal opinion: I see in Astarion no disgust in this mentioned expression, the smirk and head shaking, on the contrary, it’s pleasure and a sadistic joy that he mocked his lover, but that is different from real disgust, especially if Astarion is into BDSM and gets pleasure in humiliating others ( we see it in Act 1, so for me it's in character for him). Also, IF he would feel real disgust, he wouldn’t kiss his partner. (And also it doesn't necessarily mean that he sees Tav worthless or „nothing“, it just looks that he gets a lot of pleasure dominating his partner. (If anything, the expression could be more a mix with contempt because it's a bit one-sided, but not as much as the poster smirk and I would think it's just because of that.)

The only one who shows real disgust here (a mixed disgust-sad-anger face) is Tav after the playful shove, what makes this mentioned scene looks so extreme terrible (besides of that, that Tav isn't enjoying a thing in the whole (!) kiss, not even at the start)
I do like that playful shove/slap, it’s not even physical pain, so Tav’s disgusted expression makes no sense at all.

For me, Astarion's sadistic joy and his shaking of the head are very pleasant, to put it nicely. I would like to keep Astarion‘s animations, though they could balance the kisses.

But as I said, I can very well understand if people feel differently, that’s why I

100 % vote for Ametris suggestion:
To have 2 options when asking for a kiss: gentle (old kiss) and rough (new kisses, but of course consensual and Tav happy and enjoying them all)

Sometimes we feel into kink, and sometimes we want to kiss gently.

My only fear with asking for a choice between gentle and rough is that Larian might take the easy route and leave players with a choice between the old kiss and the new animations completely unchanged.I've seen too many instances with other games where player requests were responded to but only in part or in such a way that the situation is still bad, even though changes have been made.
I'm not saying all companies are the same but I do fear that given a way out that involves little work and expense, the temptation might be to go that route and assume the job is done.

I understand people being uncomfortable with the shove/slap and the kneeling too (not my thing personally) BUT if Tav had a different expression, I'd be fine with them. If she appeared to be enjoying the power play it would be fun. If Tav only responded with a smile, a little laugh, even a cheeky wink, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable at all. Anything to show that she knows it's a game and is happy to play along. As things stand, it doesn't look like a game at all, just abuse.

I love that facial expression, personally. I see it as him just being playful, cheeky and enjoying the fact that Tav likes to play games with him.


While the kisses are the main subject of complaints right now, let's not forget that they also censored the romance scene yet again, despite it being supposedly fixed last patch. I can only surmise that Astarion moving his hips is deemed very offensive. I posted the comparisons and showed how ridiculous these changes are in his Ascended Romance Scene thread: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=937624#Post937624.


I also finally found a vid with Spawn Astarion's reaction to cheating on him with Mizora, and it's so well acted! Hopefully this scene is added in the next big patch:

Me too.

O my god, outstanding, just outstanding this voice action. You can sense so much pain and bitterness. You feel broken by yourself, just listening to it.

The scensored romance scene I also don't understand, it was so perfect before.

We should also all keep messaging Larian about these things, perhaps write an open letter like the modding community has done?

Well, I'll post some thoughts too, after patch 6.

First of all, I want to say thank you to all concerned AA stans. You all, do a lot for the community of ascended Astarion.

As a player, I've been enjoying BG3. The epilogue with AA gave me a lot of emotions and hopes for the best, so I still try to look positively into the future, and I really hope that Larian will listen to the players, and fix the expression on Tav/DU's face.

A lot has been said before me, I don't want to repeat the same thing, but damn it, give us a dark romance with a great character, an ascended vampire. Without moralizing, and teaching us how to play, because it's our game and our choices.

The feedback poll about kissing has gotten 600 responses + original posts from people. This was sent.
All that's left to do is wait.
It's a not a big number, but these are the most active people who follow social media and know these places and paid attention to this. Most Ascension fans have been abstaining from any media in general, and are just silent. So I'm supposing the number of dissatisfied (especially face) more.

How our Tav should not look like for us, when they are asking his lover and partner for a kiss. I summarized it in a picture for the Larian Team or who is interested in it ( I swapped Tav with Astarion/Wyll, facial expressions are seen better on them)
I hope it can help. (I am no expert, if in doubt, ask a body language expert.)

(a little) "Fear" and "concern" might be allowed at one point or another, when Astarion does something out of sudden, like grabbing, yes, but only in moderation!
Sadness, anger, contempt, fake smiles, disgust, extreme fear have absolutely no place for Tav in a kiss, especially when Tav themselves is asking for it.


*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain violence, abuse) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. ***

Ascended Astarion Kisses Patch 6 - Tav's facial expressions & body language (Tav Character-Swap with Astarion/Wyll to show it better)

I wasn't expecting that many tbh, that's pretty good so hopefully they will listen.

This... It makes me want to cry and/or kill... But how graphic and how agonizing it looks on Astarion. Thank you Zayir, I can imagine how emotionally hard it is to do such shots with Astarion. But here this agony is especially visible.

There's a Cazador on Larian's team somewhere. Definitely. And now he's deciding what kind of treatment Astarion deserves.


Confused? I mean, why create an option that you can't choose? Well, sort of officially you can, but you'll be immediately shown for who you are. I don't feel "confused", I feel pissed as hell to be honest. Violence is in the game. So we don't get " confused."


Yeah, the voice acting is just heartbreaking... Astarion deserves so much better than all of this. I wonder if there could ever be a scene with appropriate lines for someone who helped him ascended and never cheated?


That's a very good idea. Totally support it. I think an open letter is a better option than just reviews that Larian themselves read/not read. At the end of the day, players have a say too, we have a right to a playable game, especially after we've already bought it.


Sure. Friends, if anyone just reads this thread and has an opinion they'd like to express, do it! The more of us there are, the better chance we'll be noticed and we'll be able to play BG3 instead of abandoning the game because it's now become a "Cazador project".

hmmm.. forgive me if i am wrong, i kinda..sorta remember reading a post somewhere saying that one of the writer commenting that if fans like AA is because they see Astarian as a sex object or something like that, would it be one of the reason for the sudden change after patch6?

Again please correct me if i am making a false assumption.

From what I've heard this author said it in a private discord and then someone requoted that post for the public to see. Apparently, this same author was also writing smut fiction with AA and only afterwards started making this claim. There was big backlash afterwards.



A simple character swap with added bruises and how perfectly it depicts the questionable nature of these kisses. If the ingame kiss doesn't speak to someone's imagination, this pic certainly will. Brilliant work!

I can't believe I actually signed up to join the forum - I've been a long time lurker, lol. But just reading about it isn't cutting it for me anymore. I am a woman in her late 30's. I have been playing RPG via tabletop or video games for about 20 years. I have been into Vampires since I learned of their existence. I have been "Team Lestat" since I was a teenager. (Louie, Louie, Louie, always WHINING). My mother & I used to watch True Blood - if any of you remember or watched that show there was this one scene with this vampire named Franklin, he had kidnapped one of the characters because he was in love with her. She was very upset and crying and he walks in and says "Who made you cry? I'll KILL them!!!" My mother and I looked at each other and said in unison "I WANT A VAMPIRE BOYFRIEND!!!" (we're both freaks like that).


I am also a survivor of DV & SA. I went through a lot of healing and established healthy coping mechanisms. I have the occasional flashback, or PTSD episode if something triggers it, but I am very lucky that a lot of things that used to trigger me now no longer do. WHELP, I didn't realize it at the time because it seemed so silly, but Patch 6 triggered a PTSD episode. I didn't play the game for over a week, and avoided videos talking about it, cause it would spike up my anxiety. When I realized what happened I was able tostart my helathy habits again, and took to the forums and some of the AA youtube channels (shout out to Dark Urge Diaries, Nirrart, & Nyloth - I love your work!) to see I wasn't alone. I emailed Larian, and posted on the discord (oh boy what a toxic crapshow that is) my feedback and it's basically the same as everyone's here: We know it's not *healthy*, we don't want tooth-rotting fluff with AA, we want "Dark Romance." Obsessive, possessive, passionate. And it feels like instead of letting us explore and roleplay a Dark Romance in a safe environment, we now are being forced to simulate intimate partner violence. Like wtf?



So when I originally saw the "bite kiss" and the face shove I HATED it.... for reasons above. Then I realized I actually hated it for the same reasons I disliked the other kisses, Tav's face. An old boyfriend of mine used to shove my face away from him kinda like that, especially when I was teasing him. It was playful, there was no malice behind it at all. If after the shove Tav's face was a cheeky little smirk I'd be so down for it! Cause that's literally what I used to do! On the kneeling one, I just don't like that it can trigger in public cause like, don't force your kink onto others. I don't have any issue with the scene in private, besides again... the player's face. being shown in absolute terror at a partner grabbing my throat brings back TERRIBLE memories. Showing a face that is more sultry or pleased when he grabs their throat would bring back HAPPIER memories like when my partner & I were exploring those dynamics with trust and consent and it was HOT.

Amazing what just a facial expression can change.

Just a quick correction, the fic was a non-romantic/non-sexual fic about EA Astarion (so Act 1 Astarion) spending a day in the House of Hope with Tav

Good to know, I didn't look into this subject that much, because I'm not particularly interested in it. I'm more worried about them turning away from the original design of the character.


I can totally imagine AA saying that to Tav too.

Welcome, btw and hugs!

Can Spawn Astarion please get more kisses? If they're already in the works then disregard!

I love the work that was put into AA and that we got so many cool new kiss animations with AA. The problem with the AA kisses is the expression on Tav/Durge's face during the kiss. The expression during rough and degrading kisses does not fit how I roleplay my character that ascended Astarion. I know AA is a bad ending and I know his actions and words can be considered abusive. Most adults understand these things, so why is a negative expression forced onto my character's face during AA's kisses?

My character is a dark urge who likes pain a little too much and she wanted to know what her own burning flesh smells like when Priestess Gut branded her. She went through Abdirak's beating gleefully. The dark urge throughout all of act 1 can pick dialogue options that highlights they like pain and blood.... but then they have to look disappointed when AA kisses them roughly or in a degrading manner? Why? I'm hoping this was just an oversight by Larian and it will be fixed eventually.